Rs 25k cr Tejas won’t be ready before 2015

[Hulk]

LCA or AMCA should be continued to have the know how of building aircraft. I feel JV on engine is a good option. I completely agree with Sancho.

DRDO needs to change its thinking too.

IAF too needs to accept home grown products.

 

[Secur]

Then what do you think MRCA is there for ? Since we started indigenous aircraft program , we would finish it even if it gets delayed by 10 years . You want to leave and go for JV to make a cheap aircraft like Tejas too ? If we go for JV all the work we did till now would have no meaning other than saying that we got some experience . SO there is no point in making JV for cheap aircrafts . To fill the gap , we upgraded Mig21,Mig29,Mirage and are buying additional Mkis and Rafales .
Heck i dont want your certificate on my innocence . Your are burning because it hurt you We could have made a JV with Russia but for that we should give up our Tejas . Instead of making a cheap 4th gen aircraft with Russia we directly went for JV on 5th gen fighter for which we dont need to compromise on Tejas

Please dont show your ignorance here , when did we have JV with Russia on aircraft project ?

It doesnt matter if 5th gen aircrafts are in your interest or not We never termed buying foreign equipment as indigenous credit , but what we say is even if it is not indigenous , it wont matter because they work if used in war . You need to get digest that fact instead of saying that is not indigenous ... blah .. blah Considering most of countries didnt make an indigenous aircraft , would you consider it as failure ? Its pretty clear you skipped my points and just stuck on points which you can reply and quoted them only . Now dont try to act smart .

I have posted the same question again and again " Do you tie the success of your indigenous fighter with the purchase of a foreign one ? " If yes , then Tejas can never be failure since other aircrafts will be coming to take its role but if not , then by the delay and constantly revised requirements , it is starting to look like one ... If JV results in cheap aircraft going by your logic , then are you admitting the FGFA is one cheap low quality aircraft ?

Of course , and I am not even giving you one since the mods deleted your very posts aimed at derailing the thread ... What else do we ask for than keeping a firm control on trollers ? ... You could have and you did make a JV with Russia ... Again , you are talking about a aircraft almost 10-12 years away and not even related to the very project ...

Actually , you are showing your ignorance here ... I said that India has been doing JV's for long with many countries but not Russia ... If you aren't aware of it then let Wiki be your best friend !

Indeed , I have never denied that other aircraft aren't there to take the role which Tejas was supposed to have ... I was talking specifically about this very project and not how other aircrafts will/can take its roles ... A point which most of the Indians are more than eager to point out ... Quite interesting seeing you use this " If it works in war " logic , Ironically coming from a person who cant stop shouting " copied/reverse engineered " in some other section What points I have missed though ?

IAF too needs to accept home grown products.

Something which I have been telling your fellow countrymen all along ...

Merely reluctant to accept my opinion because of my flags , otherwise Sancho says it all the time

 

[kṣamā]

Yes it doesn't have , you must know how long those countries with strong industrial base have been developing aircrafts , something which you cant do in one go ... Can you ?

Currently DRDO and other local industries are trying to answer your question. Time will tell if it can or cannot.

The thing " What is stopping it from inducting it ? " ... Sorry DRDO doesn't exactly have a very good reputation to have a motto like that ... There's been too much delays by the company ...

For the first part I have answered in my post pls find it. For the latter part, I am no DRDO historian and you my dear friend are in position to analyse the facts (Freely available on any forum) abt DRDO in a neutral state, so lets pass,

I may have misunderstood but you are advertising the very project some " poster boy sort of thing " and not a defense need ...

Not a defense need?? Do you think only a foreign Bullet made is defense need satisfied ?? If you think so then whatever Tejas wanted to prove is not within your realms.

Do you think the millions of hours, as u put it, "Wasted" on the project will have no real value ?? Then had that been the case then there would be just one Indigenous product and rest all JV to make that product. Let it take a decade more, so what ? It is not that we are running ridiculasly short of a/c or there is war fast approaching. whatever we learn will pave way for further dev.

Nay , no one asking you to abandon it ... Go for the features you want in another blocks ... This is the standard operating procedures for AF's around the world ... Revising the requirements again and again will make it almost impossible to catch up for HAL ...

Well revising requirements leading to delay dose not make ppl at DRDO idiots. And its for everyone to see that the delay are for IAF not due to DRDO. And for development in blocks, they are doing so. Thats the reason Mk2 is planned but every time u see Mk2 u flame so I dinn raise it b4. If DRDO thinks it can tackle a specification for Mk1 then they must of though of something b4 speaking. Remember people at DRDO are technocrats not your every day diplomats.

 

[tvsram1992]

I have posted the same question again and again " Do you tie the success of your indigenous fighter with the purchase of a foreign one ? " If yes , then Tejas can never be failure since other aircrafts will be coming to take its role but if not , then by the delay and constantly revised requirements , it is starting to look like one ... If JV results in cheap aircraft going by your logic , then are you admitting the FGFA is one cheap low quality aircraft ?

Of course , and I am not even giving you one since the mods deleted your very posts aimed at derailing the thread ... What else do we ask for than keeping a firm control on trollers ? ... You could have and you did make a JV with Russia ... Again , you are talking about a aircraft almost 10-12 years away and not even related to the very project ...

Actually , you are showing your ignorance here ... I said that India has been doing JV's for long with many countries but not Russia ... If you aren't aware of it then let Wiki be your best friend !

Indeed , I have never denied that other aircraft aren't there to take the role which Tejas was supposed to have ... I was talking specifically about this very project and not how other aircrafts will/can take its roles ... A point which most of the Indians are more than eager to point out ... Quite interesting seeing you use this " If it works in war " logic , Ironically coming from a person who cant stop shouting " copied/reverse engineered " in some other section What points I have missed though ?

Ill say the same thing again . The bold part gives your answer .
Then what do you think MRCA is there for ? Since we started indigenous aircraft program , we would finish it even if it gets delayed by 10 years . You want to leave and go for JV to make a cheap aircraft like Tejas too ? If we go for JV all the work we did till now would have no meaning other than saying that we got some experience . SO there is no point in making JV for cheap aircrafts . To fill the gap , we upgraded Mig21,Mig29,Mirage and are buying additional Mkis and Rafales .
Adding to that no other aircraft is taking the role of aircraft . Rafale was a different case but an add on . I never said JV always give cheap aircraft . We dont want JV to make a cheap aircraft scrapping our Tejas . We would rather go for JV in FGFA which would be a potent aircraft unlike cheap aircrafts .
You you proved your ignorance again . What is this ?

Sorry ! ... Mate , do you know that it isn't the first time that India is building an aircraft at home ? You have been doing JV's long before that ... Where's all that experience then ?

I asked when did we make a JV on aircrafts ? Your reply was like kid ... you are only showing your ignorance ... Please back up your comment with the link along with the above quoted one ...

Actually , you are showing your ignorance here ... I said that India has been doing JV's for long with many countries but not Russia ... If you aren't aware of it then let Wiki be your best friend !

Then tell me the JVs with other countries , again you showed your ignorance by saying no JV with Russia . Ever heard of Brahmos ?

You are wrong again , we have MRCA to fill the gap delayed by Tejas , not the role of Tejas . You were quoting the part which hurt you and missed all the points that i mentioned . Btw you replied my post before it got deleted and now you are trying to take an excuse that they were deleted .

 

[jha]

LCA or AMCA should be continued to have the know how of building aircraft. I feel JV on engine is a good option. I completely agree with Sancho.

DRDO needs to change its thinking too.

IAF too needs to accept home grown products.

They should be continued but should not be never ending..

 

[KRAIT]

self delete

 

[Harry Potter]

Doesn't matter for the IAF.
ACC to an IAF officer posted in the HQ IAF feels that light single-engind fighters like Tejas MK1 & jf-17 are good for cash strapped Air forces ike Pakistan Air Force.
IF Tejas was a light twin engined fighter like MiG-29 IAF would have been more interested.

Anyways IAF IS Very much interested in Tejas mk2 as it wants it to have capabilities like the all new Gripen NG.
For the IAF the delivery of 21-24 Su-30 MKI's by HAL this year and 12 by Russia(All 12 delivered).

 

[Luffy 500]

Ok even after all this 30 years of investment and hyper powered kaveri engine, will this 25 cr
thing fly?.........Oh sorry I forgot Indians are already working on 5th gen stealth AMCA
aren't they?

 

[kṣamā]

Ok even after all this 30 years of investment and hyper powered kaveri engine, will this 25 cr
thing fly?.........Oh sorry I forgot Indians are already working on 5th gen stealth AMCA
aren't they?

Ain't BDAF designing to have a full 5th gen AF !! Oh wait it currently operates a/c that has even been retired by PAF . Oh and is it producing anything ?? Well lets see .... its difficult to count .....oh its Zero (Irony, it was discovered in India).

See even we can write flaming posts in response. But pls constraint yourself from doing so. And I am terribly sorry for trolling and flaming but I had to make the point.

 

[Fireurimagination]

We have waited for 25+ years..nothing waiting for couple of more years..just HAL/DRDO should make sure that the final product should be a top notch product

 

[Secur]

Currently DRDO and other local industries are trying to answer your question. Time will tell if it can or cannot.

For the first part I have answered in my post pls find it. For the latter part, I am no DRDO historian and you my dear friend are in position to analyse the facts (Freely available on any forum) abt DRDO in a neutral state, so lets pass,

Not a defense need?? Do you think only a foreign Bullet made is defense need satisfied ?? If you think so then whatever Tejas wanted to prove is not within your realms.

Do you think the millions of hours, as u put it, "Wasted" on the project will have no real value ?? Then had that been the case then there would be just one Indigenous product and rest all JV to make that product. Let it take a decade more, so what ? It is not that we are running ridiculasly short of a/c or there is war fast approaching. whatever we learn will pave way for further dev.



Well revising requirements leading to delay dose not make ppl at DRDO idiots. And its for everyone to see that the delay are for IAF not due to DRDO. And for development in blocks, they are doing so. Thats the reason Mk2 is planned but every time u see Mk2 u flame so I dinn raise it b4. If DRDO thinks it can tackle a specification for Mk1 then they must of though of something b4 speaking. Remember people at DRDO are technocrats not your every day diplomats.

Hope they come up with " Positive , sir "

For the latter part , I must tell you that history's not on DRDO's side ... You are free to research though ...

Yes , that is what I deduced from your enthusiastic post ... No , I do not think so , that is the thinking of your armed forces that all foreign equipments are great ! I said what I understood from your post was that LCA was some sort of " poster boy " project or morale booster or PR thingy ... I may have misunderstood ...

I never said that said that the efforts were wasted ... You are mistaking me for another poster Stormforce who stated that ... It can take 2 more decades but the simple thing is that the more time passes , the more it becomes obsolete ... Actually , you do desperately need replacement for the flying coffins and that isn't my opinion ! Sure pave the way but the question remains " When ? "

Sorry , DRDO officials have no power to revise the requirements ... That depends on the Indian AF actually ... No , I do not flame ... I am just astonished that people talk about Mk2 when even the first hasn't entered service yet ! Makes no sense right ?

 

[Secur]

Ill say the same thing again . The bold part gives your answer .
Then what do you think MRCA is there for ? Since we started indigenous aircraft program , we would finish it even if it gets delayed by 10 years . You want to leave and go for JV to make a cheap aircraft like Tejas too ? If we go for JV all the work we did till now would have no meaning other than saying that we got some experience . SO there is no point in making JV for cheap aircrafts . To fill the gap , we upgraded Mig21,Mig29,Mirage and are buying additional Mkis and Rafales .
Adding to that no other aircraft is taking the role of aircraft . Rafale was a different case but an add on . I never said JV always give cheap aircraft . We dont want JV to make a cheap aircraft scrapping our Tejas . We would rather go for JV in FGFA which would be a potent aircraft unlike cheap aircrafts .
You you proved your ignorance again . What is this ?
I asked when did we make a JV on aircrafts ? Your reply was like kid ... you are only showing your ignorance ... Please back up your comment with the link along with the above quoted one ...

Then tell me the JVs with other countries , again you showed your ignorance by saying no JV with Russia . Ever heard of Brahmos ?

You are wrong again , we have MRCA to fill the gap delayed by Tejas , not the role of Tejas . You were quoting the part which hurt you and missed all the points that i mentioned . Btw you replied my post before it got deleted and now you are trying to take an excuse that they were deleted .

And I will explain again that by the time you finish it , if history is any indication , it will be obsolete and useless ... Savvy ?
Why are you so interested in all MRCA's , Upgradation and 10 years away FGFA deal ? ... All the more reason for one to deduce that surely Tejas isn't on the right track and that is why replacement is being procured from around the globe ! Who asked you to go for JV ? I merely stated that you have been doing JV since decades ... Didn't you learn nothing ? Still you call JV'ed aircraft as cheap , without taking in consideration that your next big purchase will be FGFA You say one thing and refute it in another line Decide first yourself the quality of JV'ed aircrafts before making ambiguous posts ...

Really ? Do I need to teach you Indian aviation history now ? ... Well here's the thing ...

HAL Ajeet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Folland Gnat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
HAL Pushpak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I assumed that you would have sufficient intelligence to assume that we are only talking about the aviation industry here ...
You are confused yourself ... If other aircraft can fill Tejas role , why invest more money in LCA ? If Tejas can do it , why are you wasting billions on foreign fighters ? TBVH , there's nothing here to hurt me ... Stop mocking yourself ... Why would I need to make an excuse ? Yes , I wrote a nice wonderful reply to your post before it got deleted ... Did you enjoy it ?

 

[tvsram1992]

And I will explain again that by the time you finish it , if history is any indication , it will be obsolete and useless ... Savvy ?
Why are you so interested in all MRCA's , Upgradation and 10 years away FGFA deal ? ... All the more reason for one to deduce that surely Tejas isn't on the right track and that is why replacement is being procured from around the globe ! Who asked you to go for JV ? I merely stated that you have been doing JV since decades ... Didn't you learn nothing ? Still you call JV'ed aircraft as cheap , without taking in consideration that your next big purchase will be FGFA You say one thing and refute it in another line Decide first yourself the quality of JV'ed aircrafts before making ambiguous posts ...

Really ? Do I need to teach you Indian aviation history now ? ... Well here's the thing ...

HAL Ajeet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Folland Gnat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
HAL Pushpak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I assumed that you would have sufficient intelligence to assume that we are only talking about the aviation industry here ...
You are confused yourself ... If other aircraft can fill Tejas role , why invest more money in LCA ? If Tejas can do it , why are you wasting billions on foreign fighters ? TBVH , there's nothing here to hurt me ... Stop mocking yourself ... Why would I need to make an excuse ? Yes , I wrote a nice wonderful reply to your post before it got deleted ... Did you enjoy it ?

1. When our enemies use 4th gen aircrafts after 20-30 years , do you think Tejas will be useless ? More over its primary role is interceptor , so delays cant be said as failure .

2. Ambiguous posts ? I said JV for FGFA is better than scrapping LCA and going for JV to make a LCA like aircraft

3. Buddy you need to educate yourself seriously . I dont know why are you feeling hard to admit your defeat . They are licensed productions not JVs . If so Mki and Rafale would also be JVs JV is some thing like FGFA,Jf17,Brahmos .
You should have seen the links before posting them .

4. Tejas has primary role of CAS and interception which is currently being done by Mig21s . Rafales are not to fill the role of Tejas but to raise the no. of squadrons . We invested in Tejas because we dont want to depend on others . That answers your questions . I dont think you have problem in understanding . Do you ?

5. You believe your reply is wonderful If so you need to check yourself

Next time please quote properly and reply Gd n8 .

 

[Agni5000]

DRDO and HAL are blood sucking organization. All are filled with job insecure and incompetent idiots.

 

[KRAIT]

HAL Dhruv, HAL LCH, Tejas Mk1 done over 2000 flight hours, MK2 in pipeline. Tell me a country that developed so fast in 65 years with so much less money. MK2 will have AESA radar, tell me one country that got independence in past 65 years developed these things.

We can't compromise with quality if we want to build in quantity if we have to keep Pakistan and China in mind which have BVR capable fighters, getting AESA radar in their frontline fighters, got AWACs of competing quality and not to forget defend at western , eastern and northern front. Look at the border length to be protected. At the same time develop in much bigger force.

Indigenous production is our prime priority and we have to do it at ANY COST if we want to get to front line of leading nations. All UNSC permanent members are self dependent in Air warfare scenario. In war scenario, LCA will be a dependent platform if we don't have to risk foreign embargo.

Instead of laughing out loud, talk sense, get over this childish attitude. I don't know more about all these things, but one thing I know is its better to build a needle rather than importing one.