Rs 25k cr Tejas won’t be ready before 2015

[Sergi]

Seems more like a sheepish rant rather than an actual reply..
1. ???
2. Sure, thats all great.. but it doesnt take away from the fact that this project is now becoming too little too late for the IAF's needs
3. Right.. so no Indian tax payer is upset about losing that amount.. again..sounds like a angry whine rather than an intelligent argument.
4. I will infrac you the next time you drag Pakistan or China into this in your cheap, pathetic attempt to throw trash on somebody else for your country's own problem to divert the topic.
5. Yet the engine has been publicly declared as unfit for the purpose it was originally thought out for. Basically, it did not make the grade.
6. Again another whiny rant..

Ranting and trolling were not intention at all.

Actually tried to reply in proper words before but You know it didn't work
1. It was something similar. If you recall whole world was against Indian space program. Now the world and some Indians too are against LCA project. It's was just to point out similarities. Nothing else. - ( specially for those who say close it down )
2. You missed the point. Evenif IAF didn't get a single LCA and the project worth more than its being invested. Isn't it ??? Whatever work India is going to do in FGFA would that be possible if this project was absent ???
And about IAFs needs:- are you suggesting the 4th Gen fighter era will be over in next 15/20 years ??? Really ??? How many countries are going to get 5th gen fighters in next 2 decades ??? Main point for india is its old advesery- Pak isn't anywhere near 5th gen. For all those who say China will assist. Sorry I don't think so. Even Russia wouldn't have share PAK-FA with India if there were no need for funds
3. I am sorry Oscar but I don't think you know about Indian tax payers. No body dam care about the spendings of GOI. People only come out when things close to them change like gas,fuel and basic commodities. I have never seen any agitation against so and so investment. Never. If you have to point out the first such thing is agitations against nuclear plants only by few NGOs and locals.
4. I think you didn't read post 9 then. I wasn't the one who bring in WS-xx here. But still it holds the point according to article as article mentions Kaveri. And only country in our surrounding making own engins is China. So that wasn't cheap or trolling attempts. Even if china has made one that isn't upto mark. They are improving/developing it. I was pointing at the 5th Gen engine that will go with their AC and not the controversial one.
5. Yes the Engine is publicly declared unfit for the purpose it was designed. So is it zero achievement ??? Waist investment ??? Please explain. It is zero for LCA is agreed publicly.
6. That isn't the rant at all. It's the fact. If LCA-Mark-2 fail it's timeline the IAF is most likey to go for follow up order. Even I belive that evenif LCA M2 isn't delayed IAF will go with the follow up order in the tender. You too has said this in some other thread, didn't you ???

For your point 4: not at all diverting topic. Not blaming anybody else just laughing on the few who are doing it purposefully again and again.

The bolded part is incorrect, India has zero experience with stealth.

Being part of the PAK-FA can give some experience, but not enough to build one of its own in such a short timeframe.

Who's talking about stealth ??? Intention was avionics, software and other things.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

i think its time to dump the project...better to invest in JV

A JV or ToT is not much significant if you have no technology base.

 

[Sergi]

A JV or ToT is not much significant if you have no technology base.

Exactly that's what I was tring to say

 

[SQ8]

Ranting and trolling were not intention at all.

Actually tried to reply in proper words before but You know it didn't work
1. It was something similar. If you recall whole world was against Indian space program. Now the world and some Indians too are against LCA project. It's was just to point out similarities. Nothing else. - ( specially for those who say close it down )
2. You missed the point. Evenif IAF didn't get a single LCA and the project worth more than its being invested. Isn't it ??? Whatever work India is going to do in FGFA would that be possible if this project was absent ???
And about IAFs needs:- are you suggesting the 4th Gen fighter era will be over in next 15/20 years ??? Really ??? How many countries are going to get 5th gen fighters in next 2 decades ??? Main point for india is its old advesery- Pak isn't anywhere near 5th gen. For all those who say China will assist. Sorry I don't think so. Even Russia wouldn't have share PAK-FA with India if there were no need for funds
3. I am sorry Oscar but I don't think you know about Indian tax payers. No body dam care about the spendings of GOI. People only come out when things close to them change like gas,fuel and basic commodities. I have never seen any agitation against so and so investment. Never. If you have to point out the first such thing is agitations against nuclear plants only by few NGOs and locals.
4. I think you didn't read post 9 then. I wasn't the one who bring in WS-xx here. But still it holds the point according to article as article mentions Kaveri. And only country in our surrounding making own engins is China. So that wasn't cheap or trolling attempts. Even if china has made one that isn't upto mark. They are improving/developing it. I was pointing at the 5th Gen engine that will go with their AC and not the controversial one.
5. Yes the Engine is publicly declared unfit for the purpose it was designed. So is it zero achievement ??? Waist investment ??? Please explain. It is zero for LCA is agreed publicly.
6. That isn't the rant at all. It's the fact. If LCA-Mark-2 fail it's timeline the IAF is most likey to go for follow up order. Even I belive that evenif LCA M2 isn't delayed IAF will go with the follow up order in the tender. You too has said this in some other thread, didn't you ???

For your point 4: not at all diverting topic. Not blaming anybody else just laughing on the few who are doing it purposefully again and again.


Who's talking about stealth ??? Intention was avionics, software and other things.

1.&2. The space program is at the end a PR bonus.. the LCA has little "public" benefit other than creating jobs.. since no mass production is online.. no jobs. I have discounted its massive R&D gain.. but its actual gain to the IAF. The FGFA is by India's own admission still very much Russian with much less Indian input at this stage.

3.that seems very unbelievable that a nation of soo many educated people does not care where its money is spent .. what do they care for then? why do they vote?

4. And those posts have been deleted as well. the warning is for all.

5. It is still useless as a product until you find a place to fit it, I did not count R&D gain for either the LCA or the Kaveri as I have stated its immense importance and magnitude countless times before. But as the topic focuses on the delays of LCA.. Kaveri is a big part of it. Whatever research gains may be.. currently the Kaveri is an unwanted orphan unless some development requires it or is done to give this engine some use.

6. Yes, but how will that still take away from the fact that the LCA would have been a failed program? Buying a better Rafale helps the IAF, not the LCA programs image.

 

[Secur]

I thought they were going to induct it in the next year ... What happened ?

6. That isn't the rant at all. It's the fact. If LCA-Mark-2 fail it's timeline the IAF is most likey to go for follow up order. Even I belive that evenif LCA M2 isn't delayed IAF will go with the follow up order in the tender. You too has said this in some other thread, didn't you ???

Explain me one thing ... Why do you guys always resort to hypothetical Mk2 Tejas when delays or other problems of the project come to light ? How come you are dreaming of a second version if even the first one isn't ready for induction ?

 

[Jako]

I thought they were going to induct it in the next year ... What happened ?



Explain me one thing ... Why do you guys always resort to hypothetical Mk2 Tejas when delays or other problems of the project come to light ? How can you develop a V2.0 if you cant even finish the first one in time or when it is needed or can be useful ?

Well the engines are ordered.So that clears up the Tejas problem.Thats mark2 with an advanced radar as well.

 

[Secur]

Well the engines are ordered.So that clears up the Tejas problem.Thats mark2 with an advanced radar as well.

Well , the engine was ordered a long time ago right after Kaveri crashed and burned so that is no explanation or anything ... Even today the Tejas PT's fly with GE engines ... So ? and you still haven't answered my question ... You people talk of Mark2 when even the first one isn't ready ...

 

[tvsram1992]

i think its time to dump the project...better to invest in JV

Still you want to rely on some one during war time ? When the Tejas is rolled out , it would be a fighter with one of the best systems available . It will be the lightest interceptor that can act Multi Role with better radar , sensors , EW systems and avionics .

 

[Secur]

Still you want to rely on some one during war time ? When the Tejas is rolled out , it would be a fighter with one of the best systems available . It will be the lightest interceptor that can act Multi Role with better radar , sensors , EW systems and avionics .

The question that everybody is asking is " When it will be rolled out ? " Ask yourself how many times has it been delayed now ? What are those benchmarks which are stopping the aircraft from even getting FOC ? What is that the IAF wants in one go without considering ground realities ?

 

[Sergi]

1.&2. The space program is at the end a PR bonus.. the LCA has little "public" benefit other than creating jobs.. since no mass production is online.. no jobs. I have discounted its massive R&D gain.. but its actual gain to the IAF. The FGFA is by India's own admission still very much Russian with much less Indian input at this stage.

3.that seems very unbelievable that a nation of soo many educated people does not care where its money is spent .. what do they care for then? why do they vote?

4. And those posts have been deleted as well. the warning is for all.

5. It is still useless as a product until you find a place to fit it, I did not count R&D gain for either the LCA or the Kaveri as I have stated its immense importance and magnitude countless times before. But as the topic focuses on the delays of LCA.. Kaveri is a big part of it. Whatever research gains may be.. currently the Kaveri is an unwanted orphan unless some development requires it or is done to give this engine some use.

6. Yes, but how will that still take away from the fact that the LCA would have been a failed program? Buying a better Rafale helps the IAF, not the LCA programs image.

1&2: post 17 is perfect answer to this. JV and TOT are of no use if there is no techno base. LCA project create that. Whatever work 5/10 % on FGFA that India will do will be from the experience from this projects. Other than this Drone projects emerge after some aviation culture and base is developed.

3. You get the answer for why Congress rule all these years. People in India care only if the things directly related to them change.
Food,water,fuel , electricity and gas. Everything else is manageable. Emotions and realtions over run the basic points - always.

5. Indian railways is in talks with DRDO for the use of Kaveri in locomotives ( one of the answer given by RM in Rajyasabha)
Marine propulsion system is being sought. But no info available yet
Drone projects are up and running so it isn't fiction that Kaveri will be used there

7. I won't call LCA a failure. LCA will be a failure if all the adversaries have 5th Gen AC. Not possible for 2/3 decades.
IAF is in win win. DRDO has a reputation of bring up next marks quickly and better. If Mark-2 get what is promised by DRDO it will be mini-Rafale. And with new engine the IAF issues seem to disappears. Test pilots have publicly accepted that flying LCA is easy than Miraj/Jags.
I will not call any plane with "AERA+BVR+WVR+LGB+mid air refuelling" a failure

I thought they were going to induct it in the next year ... What happened ?



Explain me one thing ... Why do you guys always resort to hypothetical Mk2 Tejas when delays or other problems of the project come to light ? How come you are dreaming of a second version if even the first one isn't ready for induction ?

Mark1 will see IAF colours this year or early next year. This article is about Mark-2 ^^^
Current tests are part of IOC-2 and FOC. There is a detailed article in LCA sticky if you are really interested

 

[Secur]

7. I won't call LCA a failure. LCA will be a failure if all the adversaries have 5th Gen AC. Not possible for 2/3 decades.
IAF is in win win.


Mark1 will see IAF colours this year or early next year. This article is about Mark-2 ^^^
Current tests are part of IOC-2 and FOC.

What absurd logic is that ? ... A project can only be declared as a failure if all the other adversaries have next Generation fighters ... It can be easily classified as a failure if it is inducted at a time at which it is no use ...

Really ? Where did you see that ? Blatantly lying , huh ?

So far, Tejas has achieved only initial operational clearance-I (IOC-I) to certify it's airworthiness. "The IOC-II for the fighter, which also includes integration of some weapons like laser-guided bombs, was pushed back to December 2012. But now, it will only be possible by July, 2013, or so after over 200 more sorties. FOC will come only two years after that,'' said a source.

 

[tvsram1992]

The question that everybody is asking is " When it will be rolled out ? " Ask yourself how many times has it been delayed now ? What are those benchmarks which are stopping the aircraft from even getting FOC ? What is that the IAF wants in one go without considering ground realities ?

2020 Then we get a potent Mk2 version that can supplement Rafale .

 

[Secur]

2020 Then we get a potent Mk2 version that can supplement Rafale .

I doubt even Rafale will be of any use by the time your hypothetical Mk2 comes out

 

[graphican]

I wonder if delay in the delivery is the only rusted aspect of this project.. People who were responsible to deliver have missed at-least 20 deadlines... I wonder on performance, how much they would've missed which is hidden from criticism and analysis.

I also think that India doesn't have much appetite for his own indigenous Aircraft at this stage. With 270 MKIs and 126 even better Rafael, Good number of MIGs then Mirage, India probably feels they have nailed their need and doesn't feel pushed towards development of Tejas. They are probably making it for the "kids to keep playing with".

 

[OrionHunter]

Apparently more than one glass house has been cracked..
but we Indians cannot be seen faltering.. its not possible humanly.

HTV-2 was a rocket-launched unmanned glider intended to demonstrate long-duration hypersonic flight for prompt global strike by flying across the Pacific at Mach 20. But both flights ended after about 9 min. The April 2010 failure was blamed on excessive yaw-roll coupling, which overpowered the flight controls. The August 2011 failure was blamed on unexpected aeroshell degradation.

Mach 20 bombers are science fiction as of today. May become reality not before 2030. So yes, the author was fantasizing after all!