Row over govt's plan to build 'composite townships' for Kashmiri pandits

[Joe Shearer]

Forced to leave by who? Segregate muslims with draconian laws such as afspa rape and pillage, summary killings, extra judicial murders ? Pandits were forced by whom? And for what reason?

By Muslim bigots.

Pandits should go home when they stop conniving to kill muslims

You don't know your facts. Stop displaying your prejudices and your pamphleteering views.

 

[deckingraj]

Look we need to have best of both worlds...it is true that ghetto's are not good, however it is equally true that unless and until we don't allocate special areas it would be hard..very hard to convince those who left...and unfortunately we don't have much time left either...generations have grown without any real touch with Kashmir...whatever they could fathom is courtesy their parents/grand parents...now we should rehabilitate them before it's too late...

I am just thinking out loud...How about if we create dedicated townships for them however open some decent percentage for native Kashmiris(irrespective of religion)?? This way we can have townships with majority being Pandits(will given them some confidence) and a decent population of native kashmiris...may be something like a semi ghetto??

 

[Whirling_dervesh]

By muslim bigots? But not sikh, and hindu bigots? Return those that have been forced to flee since the 1800's. Pandits are minute in comparison, u dont see anyone fighting for there repatriation

 

[Nicky G]

No separate townships for Kashmiri Pandits in valley: CM Mufti Mohammed Sayeed

Personally, I don't care if there are separate clusters or not, only that those who were dispossessed are restored and paid due compensation, preferably by taking from the perpetrators.

We have enough military presence to ensure any miscreants can be dealt with.

 

[doppelganger]

No separate townships for Kashmiri Pandits in valley: CM Mufti Mohammed Sayeed

Personally, I don't care if there are separate clusters or not, only that those who were dispossessed are restored and paid due compensation, preferably by taking from the perpetrators.

We have enough military presence to ensure any miscreants can be dealt with.

Most of the homes and lands of the Pandits have been taken over by Kashmiri Muslims. Illegally of course. Records destroyed. Evidence, if an, burned, disappeared, or manipulated.

You can use the military to force the Muslims out. But which Pandit is going to be brave (or stupid) enough to go back and live amongst the same people who were the killers? How long is the army going to protect these Pandits. Their kids. Their women. Is the army going to follow them to school? To work? To the market?

You have to arm and train a Pandit militia. Bolster its numbers with mainland Hindus. And establish Pandit/Hindu-only kibbutzes with an armed perimeter. The army controls the Muslim areas. And the kibbutz controls its internal zone.

Then the kibbutzes grow. And new kibbutzes are formed. Obviously on Muslim controlled land.

Gaza strip. West Bank. China, Tibet and the Han solution. You have working models which are tried and tested. No need to reinvent the wheel. You need to have the will. The means have always been there.

 

[Nicky G]

Most of the homes and lands of the Pandits have been taken over by Kashmiri Muslims. Illegally of course. Records destroyed. Evidence, if an, burned, disappeared, or manipulated.

You can use the military to force the Muslims out. But which Pandit is going to be brave (or stupid) enough to go back and live amongst the same people who were the killers? How long is the army going to protect these Pandits. Their kids. Their women. Is the army going to follow them to school? To work? To the market?

You have to arm and train a Pandit militia. Bolster its numbers with mainland Hindus. And establish Pandit/Hindu-only kibbutzes with an armed perimeter. The army controls the Muslim areas. And the kibbutz controls its internal zone.

Then the kibbutzes grow. And new kibbutzes are formed. Obviously on Muslim controlled land.

Gaza strip. West Bank. China, Tibet and the Han solution. You have working models which are tried and tested. No need to reinvent the wheel. You need to have the will. The means have always been there.

Take a long term view and go step-wise.

First step is convincing Pandits to go settle back, which can be incentivised but its going to be tough, particularly if there aren't separated clusters.

Next step, of those who do go, some will obviously suffer due the inevitably extreme Muslim elements. That is what you use to make an example out of and utterly and completely crush. If you fail there, the Pandits would again be on their own in effect. Obviously, you can't keep protecting people in perpetuity.

Even if you have separate clusters, what happens to people when they step out or are they to be confined in those enclosures forever?

Lets be blunt, this is never going to be a completely peaceful process. Its the political will to ram through and crush the violence that matters.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against armed kibbutzes but eventually you'd have to phase them out. The point to note is that opposition to this is used as an excuse by those don't want the Pandits to return at all.

If we can't get this done now, with BJP at center and part of government in J&K, its unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future. My central argument is that we cannot allow any more delay.

Bottom line, if the center can push through separate colonies, great. If not, go with what you have and work with it.

 

[doppelganger]

Take a long term view and go step-wise.

First step is convincing Pandits to go settle back, which can be incentivised but its going to be tough, particularly if there aren't separated clusters.

Next step, of those who do go, some will obviously suffer due the inevitably extreme Muslim elements. That is what you use to make an example out of and utterly and completely crush. If you fail there, the Pandits would again be on their own in effect. Obviously, you can't keep protecting people in perpetuity.

Even if you have separate clusters, what happens to people when they step out or are they to be confined in those enclosures forever?

Lets be blunt, this is never going to be a completely peaceful process. Its the political will to ram through and crush the violence that matters.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against armed kibbutzes but eventually you'd have to phase them out. The point to note is that opposition to this is used as an excuse by those don't want the Pandits to return at all.

If we can't get this done now, with BJP at center and part of government in J&K, its unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future. My central argument is that we cannot allow any more delay.

Bottom line, if the center can push through separate colonies, great. If not, go with what you have and work with it.

Bhai I am agreeing with you. I of course want the Pandits to return. Have you not read my previous posts on the subject and my discussions with Sarthak in the past?

In the short to medium term, it is easier for armed perimeters to protect large groups of people than protect those same people in mixed populace.

THAT is the starting point. That is what is going to happen. Unlike Israel though, the Kashmiri Muslims would be MAD to rain rockets into those kibbutzes. Because they then know what's waiting for them.

The difference between Palestine and Kashmir is that unlike Palestine, the Kashmiri Muslims will still have a lot of land to themselves. There is not going to be instant mass displacement.

Slowly Article 370 will go. More kibbutzes will come up. Economy will change. Kashmir will open up. The Kashmiri Muslims will have a choice:

1) Get pushed into tighter and tighter living quarters - if they want to stick to their land and live together amongst each other in ghettos

2) Start moving for employment and prospects into mainland India, as jobs and living space and commodities become scarce in Muslim Kashmir (shades of Palestine)

3) Fight to retake Hindu re-occupied Kashmir back all for themselves

I do not see a 4th choice. Do you?

 

[Nicky G]

Bhai I am agreeing with you. I of course want the Pandits to return. Have you not read my previous posts on the subject and my discussions with Sarthak in the past?

In the short to medium term, it is easier for armed perimeters to protect large groups of people than protect those same people in mixed populace.

THAT is the starting point. That is what is going to happen. Unlike Israel though, the Kashmiri Muslims would be MAD to rain rockets into those kibbutzes. Because they then know what's waiting for them.

The difference between Palestine and Kashmir is that unlike Palestine, the Kashmiri Muslims will still have a lot of land to themselves. There is not going to be instant mass displacement.

Slowly Article 370 will go. More kibbutzes will come up. Economy will change. Kashmir will open up. The Kashmiri Muslims will have a choice:

1) Get pushed into tighter and tighter living quarters - if they want to stick to their land and live together amongst each other

2) Start moving for employment and prospects into mainland India, as jobs and living space and commodities become scarce in Muslim Kashmir (shades of Palestine)

3) Fight to retake Hindu re-occupied Kashmir

I do not see a 4th choice. Do you?

Nah dude, I didn't mean to suggest that you don't wish the Pandits to return, I know you do and I agree with the points you make.

My only submission is this: We have a limited time to make this happen. Opposing segregation is used as a delay tactics and we can't afford any delays.

I understand the risk, or as much as I can without having been through or having the prospect to go through this. The government and military need to come up with plan in case separate colonies does not materialize.

Call that Plan B and be prepared for it, while working to push through plan A - separate colonies.

Actually I wish these extremists for something like you suggest, only to give the army an opportunity to eliminate them. There will be some but obviously nothing on the scale of Palestine.

 

[doppelganger]

Nah dude, I didn't mean to suggest that you don't wish the Pandits to return, I know you do and I agree with the points you make.

My only submission is this: We have a limited time to make this happen. Opposing segregation is used as a delay tactics and we can't afford any delays.

I understand the risk, or as much as I can without having been through or having the prospect to go through this. The government and military need to come up with plan in case separate colonies does not materialize.

Call that Plan B and be prepared for it, while working to push through plan A - separate colonies.

Actually I wish these extremists for something like you suggest, only to give the army an opportunity to eliminate them. There will be some but obviously nothing on the scale of Palestine.

What will in reality happen is a combination of all 3 of the choices I have outlinned.

Some Kashmiri Muslims will stay and will huddle tighter togather

Some will start moving to mainland India. Younger generations. More ambitious. More hungry.

Some will fight.

As a corollary to choice #2, some will also move - but across the border. And try coming back for a corollary to choice #3.

All of the above India is well capable of handling.

I do not see mixed populace rapatriation as a solution. No Pandit will accept that. Its a stillborn idea and the Kashmiri Muslims know that and are playing on the fear of the past as an implied threat.

We have to push through. I agree the time is now. Just not on the modus operandi.

 

[Anmol]

As a Kashmiri, I think the Kashmiri diaspora scattered around the world since successive tyrants like afghans, Sikhs and dogras now Indians , should also be given special treatment. The forced mass exodus and migrations number into the millions, why just talk about the pandits? Why not the butts, darrs, Lones, Mir, wains, khwajahs.

Nice talkin to you today on TwitterTwitter

 

[Bombermanx1]

Im sorry pandits have no place left in kashmir, they left and made there home elsewhere. If they want to go back up to them but their security shouldnt be given special treatment.

Their Rehabilitation is part of BJP's promise.They will be Rehabilitated in Separate Enclaves with 24/7 security and trained to use weapons if the need arises, these developments are going to happen.