Revisiting 1962 war with China: When India's prestige was in a shambles

[Sam6536]

Do you know human trafficking is a severe crime in China? tell me why there are many Indian women married Chinese and live in China, they were being trafficked into China by Indian government?

I've read so many cases of women being trafficked from North Korea in the guise of freedom and being married to poor Chinese farmers who buy them and treat them horribly.

 

[etylo]

So you continue to concede that there are no reports of human trafficking of Pakistani men into China for Han women. Only Pakistani women into China for Han men. Good day.

Nearly all the reports are made up by your indian media designed for you indian fools.

 

[beijingwalker]

So you continue to concede that there are no reports of human trafficking of Pakistani men into China for Han women. Only Pakistani women into China for Han men. Good day.

I said maybe or maybe not, but human trafficking is a severe crime in China, besides, without Indian gangs, how their women could be trafficked to China in the first place

Increase in cases of Indians being trafficked to China: Government

The data provided by Ahir on "human trafficking cases reported in China" said while 33 cases have been reported this year, it was 23 the last year.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[langda khan]

I've read so many cases of women being trafficked from North Korea in the guise of freedom and being married to poor Chinese farmers who buy them and treat them horribly.

There are no women man. Think Haryana and Rajasthan. At the scale of China. Across 3 generations. Lies lies lies.

 

[etylo]

I said maybe or maybe not, but human trafficking is a severe crime in China, besides, without Indian gangs, how their women could be trafficked to China in the first place

Increase in cases of Indians being trafficked to China: Government

The data provided by Ahir on "human trafficking cases reported in China" said while 33 cases have been reported this year, it was 23 the last year.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Indian BS is not to be trusted usually.

 

[beijingwalker]

Indian BS is not to be trusted usually.

I also believe so, maybe those women they wanted to escape from that shithole

 

[applesauce]

What I fail to understand is that why there would be some full-scale war between China and India, in foreseeable future? It is not a joke. China has the capacity, but no wish or purpose to do so. India might have a wish, but has no capacity, for such a venture. I don't think that India would deliberately repeat the mistake of 1962.

minor skirmishes aside, i dont think there will be. not on purpose anyways.

like you said, china doesn't want a war there, it frankly controls all the areas vital to it already(specifically aksai chin). and india has zero capability to win a war there even if they wanted to, if they push too far and they will get demolished and its leadership knows this.

the danger is an accidental war. as we have seen, local indian commanders are incompetent hotheads seemingly unaware of how comparatively weak their military is compared to china's, maybe they view too much indian fake news, but either way there is a danger they start a war their government cant fight.

 

[SIPRA]

the danger is an accidental war. as we have seen, local indian commanders are incompetent hotheads seemingly unaware of how comparatively weak their military is compared to china's, maybe they view too much indian fake news, but either way there is a danger they start a war their government cant fight.

Yes, that danger is theoretically there. But, if we see the post-1962 history of China-India clashes, we observe that they have a good diplomatic potential to timely control such happenings, the latest being the Galwan-Clash. My analysis is based upon this historical perspective.

 

[applesauce]

All of that's ok, but the overall power gap between indian and chinese militaries still isn't large enough to allow china a complete victory. Moroever in 1962 had 3-4 divisions in Tawang against 2 indian brigades. You don't have that advantage now. Infact you're outnumbered in the east , especially in chumbi valley.

They weren't small, chinese military had experience from korean war. They had type56 rifle which was very reliable and had a good performance and also employed concentrated artillery and mortar fire when assaulting indian positions. India army of 1962 had 20 division. PLA of the same era had 100+ divisions . The standard issue was lee enfield.

Interior israeli army with inferior economy in the 1970s whopped the *** of the rich arabs.

The main thing which decides the outcome in a war is application, size and capabilities of forces. India and china's armies don't have a very large gap in equipment

No, that means at any given time military has stocks for 15 days of intense war and 30 days of continued warfare. And who told you that all the equipment is imported ? India's defence procurement has a capital budget of 18 billion dollars, out of that 70% is spent in domestic Industry. India's defence import has reduced over the past decade.

HSTDV has been tested successfully. India's aim is to operationalise these weapons by 2025

china doesnt need huge numerical advantages. winning via huge manpower advantages are a thing of the past when you have technological advantages.

did you think china CAN'T have 200k men on the borders? china actively chooses to place minimum patrols on the borders because its not seeking war and fully confident even those minimum forces can slow a indian attack long enough for reinforcements to come and the tech/equipment advantages to come into play, if not outright defeat any indian incursion themselves..

and funny enough, the situation was the same in 62'. china did not have huge numbers of men there prior to that war either. they only gathered there once the indians started their forward policy, even going into areas the indian government itself considers to be fully chinese and taking down army posts. situation is the same today, in fact we saw this in action, when the standoffs happened, there were plenty of news and images of units being moved towards tibet, owning to china's much better infrastructure, it happened quick.

and yes, the chinese troops were much better trained and led. it just fought the us led UN to a standstill less than a dozen years prior against what was thought by most to be insurmountable odds. which is why nobody thought the indians would be that stupid to invade(which they did by going into non-disputed chinese territory) and yet they did exactly that and got their asses handed to them for it.

and yes the israelis did well against the arabs, but that means little. china isnt the arab world, and india is sure no israel. no one ever said it impossible to overcome odds, least of all the Chinese, who fought off the americans in korea when no one thought it was possible.

and dude, your country literally imports bullets, not even specialty bullets. your attempts at making a rifles ended up with the INSAS, one of the worst guns in recent times, your current army has a huge mix of different 5.56 and 7.62 rifles. your tank efforts results in the arjun, a tank even your own army doesnt want. you jet attempts ended up with tejas, another thing your own military doesn't want. your home made ammunition managed to blow up a us made M-777 howitzer. you have no answer to china's long range rocket artillery. you needed to buy winter coats from the us. you have all of like 100 Self-propelled artillery to china's literal thousands. you got no answers to china's j-20. you got no answer to china's drones, nor do you have any of the items in numbers that china has. how are you going to say there is little gap in equipment when its actually huge.

look, indian military in size and capability is quite powerful among nations. but here you are comparing to china not Afghanistan and in this comparison, there is a large gap. and i dont know who you're trying to impress with a procurement budget of 18 billion, again, youre up against china here not some african country or something

also, okay so india has zero in service hypersonic weapons then.

 

[SIPRA]

the danger is an accidental war. as we have seen, local indian commanders are incompetent hotheads seemingly unaware of how comparatively weak their military is compared to china's, maybe they view too much indian fake news, but either way there is a danger they start a war their government cant fight.

There is only one possibility for such a major war that Indian PM, CDS and COAS, all three, together and simultaneously, lose their mind and become insane, and order an attack on China.

 

[Hellfire2006]

Is this what you were told in schools in India?

can you prove me wrong. cracks weren't observed till 1965.

How ignorant are you Indians, no wonder you people are foolish enough to invade chinese territories repeatedly and get schooled.

Yes , and han chinese are the most enlightened people on earth

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

prestige as being the only country that begged its way to independence? sadly that kind of prestige won't give you an edge in a war

 

[Hellfire2006]

china doesnt need huge numerical advantages. winning via huge manpower advantages are a thing of the past when you have technological advantages.

Even that technological advantage isn't great enough to overwhelm us.

did you think china CAN'T have 200k men on the borders? china actively chooses to place minimum patrols on the borders because its not seeking war and fully confident even those minimum forces can slow a indian attack long enough for reinforcements to come and the tech/equipment advantages to come into play, if not outright defeat any indian incursion themselves..

I know that china relies on mobilisation of reserves from chendu and other areas to blunt an indian offensive. But those forces are not light, they are heavy and will take time for induction. What if india destroys the means of communication and transport between tibet and chengdu. How will you mobilise then ?china has recognised that threat and permanently deployed most it's HQ forces in chendu to Tibet/aksai chin since 2020. So that has essentially allowed you to lose the element of strategic surprise

and funny enough, the situation was the same in 62'. china did not have huge numbers of men there prior to that war either.

Indians took no counter mobilisation on a large scale in response to that. That shows our intent was never supposed to be escalation. And India's army was too small back then and poorly equipped whereas PLA prepared for the war

they only gathered there once the indians started their forward policy, even going into areas the indian government itself considers to be fully chinese and taking down army posts.

What about the road in aksai chin?

situation is the same today, in fact we saw this in action, when the standoffs happened, there were plenty of news and images of units being moved towards tibet, owning to china's much better infrastructure, it happened quick.

PLA has now permanently stationed forces in Tibet. Now it has added a burden on itself. Manning the LAC and fortifying it 24/7. Till 2020 china's western border was dormant and now its active adding to the trouble in the east

and yes, the chinese troops were much better trained and led. it just fought the us led UN to a standstill less than a dozen years prior against what was thought by most to be insurmountable odds. which is why nobody thought the indians would be that stupid to invade(which they did by going into non-disputed chinese territory) and yet they did exactly that and got their asses handed to them for it.

and yes the israelis did well against the arabs, but that means little. china isnt the arab world, and india is sure no israel. no one ever said it impossible to overcome odds, least of all the Chinese, who fought off the americans in korea when no one thought it was possible.

and dude, your country literally imports bullets, not even specialty bullets.

It did in the past. Not now

your attempts at making a rifles ended up with the INSAS, one of the worst guns in recent times,

I know that, it's almost replaced

your current army has a huge mix of different 5.56 and 7.62 rifles.

No, the standard issue now is sig716 for frontlime units and ak203 for other forces.

your tank efforts results in the arjun, a tank even your own army doesnt want.

Lol, clearly you're uneducated on this topic. Arjun wasn't inducted in large no.s simply because it has logisitcs limitations on marshy/hilly terrain. That's why all of them are employed in desert sector. Arjun Mk1a is an excellent tank when it comes to technology

you jet attempts ended up with tejas, another thing your own military doesn't want.

Again that bias ? 2 squadrons of Tejas is literally in Service right now with another 4 squadrons (83 jets) on order.

your home made ammunition managed to blow up a us made M-777 howitzer.

you have no answer to china's long range rocket artillery.

India can match PHL03 , PCL 191 which can launch ballisitc missiles can be matched by India's tactical ballistic missiles. Like Prahaar and Pralay

you needed to buy winter coats from the us. you have all of like 100 Self-propelled artillery to china's literal thousands.

Indian military relies on towed artillery. We have literally thousands of that. SP arty can only be used in limited areas where the approaches to valleys are flat like depsang and chushul

you got no answers to china's j-20. you got no answer to china's drones, nor do you have any of the items in numbers that china has. how are you going to say there is little gap in equipment when its actually huge.

Ok, I admit that india has no answer to J20. It won't have an answet till 2030 at least. But india will reduce china's drone advantage in a few years with Ghatak, Project cheetah and archer. Indian army has inducted swarm drones in it's service and demonstrated them in multiple military exercise. We have also stocked up loitering munitions and tactical missiles.

look, indian military in size and capability is quite powerful among nations. but here you are comparing to china not Afghanistan and in this comparison, there is a large gap. and i dont know who you're trying to impress with a procurement budget of 18 billion, again, youre up against china here not some african country or something

I know and I admit that china is more powerful. But my point is that the power china has is not enough to overwhelm india just like india can't overwhelm Pakistan.

also, okay so india has zero in service hypersonic weapons then.

Yes, but it has tested a few with success

 

[applesauce]

Even that technological advantage isn't great enough to overwhelm us.

I know that china relies on mobilisation of reserves from chendu and other areas to blunt an indian offensive. But those forces are not light, they are heavy and will take time for induction. What if india destroys the means of communication and transport between tibet and chengdu. How will you mobilise then ?china has recognised that threat and permanently deployed most it's HQ forces in chendu to Tibet/aksai chin since 2020. So that has essentially allowed you to lose the element of strategic surprise

Indians took no counter mobilisation on a large scale in response to that. That shows our intent was never supposed to be escalation. And India's army was too small back then and poorly equipped whereas PLA prepared for the war

What about the road in aksai chin?

PLA has now permanently stationed forces in Tibet. Now it has added a burden on itself. Manning the LAC and fortifying it 24/7. Till 2020 china's western border was dormant and now its active adding to the trouble in the east




It did in the past. Not now

I know that, it's almost replaced

No, the standard issue now is sig716 for frontlime units and ak203 for other forces.

Lol, clearly you're uneducated on this topic. Arjun wasn't inducted in large no.s simply because it has logisitcs limitations on marshy/hilly terrain. That's why all of them are employed in desert sector. Arjun Mk1a is an excellent tank when it comes to technology

Again that bias ? 2 squadrons of Tejas is literally in Service right now with another 4 squadrons (83 jets) on order.



India can match PHL03 , PCL 191 which can launch ballisitc missiles can be matched by India's tactical ballistic missiles. Like Prahaar and Pralay

Indian military relies on towed artillery. We have literally thousands of that. SP arty can only be used in limited areas where the approaches to valleys are flat like depsang and chushul

Ok, I admit that india has no answer to J20. It won't have an answet till 2030 at least. But india will reduce china's drone advantage in a few years with Ghatak, Project cheetah and archer. Indian army has inducted swarm drones in it's service and demonstrated them in multiple military exercise. We have also stocked up loitering munitions and tactical missiles.

I know and I admit that china is more powerful. But my point is that the power china has is not enough to overwhelm india just like india can't overwhelm Pakistan.

Yes, but it has tested a few with success

yea, sure. but again china is not seeking to attack india, thus not having the "element of surprise" is not an issue.

if india started to poke around like in the 60s, then the chinese will bring more troops and while strategic surprise will probably not be achieved, tactical ones can be, due to china's much better mobility.
and yes, china now has more permanent forces in the mountains than before. but this is hardly a difficult task for china, relatively few are near the front, most are held further back in far easier to supply areas. if india launched an all out assault out of the blue, they could very well capture some border land initially, wont be long before the PLA will begin its counter assault though.

its a far bigger burden for india to keep men on the borders with its weaker infrastructure and lessor wealth. with which india has to support some 200k men on the borders, china only does so with 50-60k.

also, it doesnt get more "front line" than this, but those rifles looks nothing like sigs, and everything like INSAS

There are tons of articles on why the Ajun sucks, if you want to believe otherwise, i wont argue with you on it. in the mountains and disputed areas with china, it doesnt matter much anyhow.


and no im not bias on tejas. Your own military says it sucks.

India Orders 83 Improved Tejas Fighter Jets-More Evolutions May Follow

The Mark 1A model should correct most of the major shortcomings in the Tejas’s avionics and make it substantially easier to maintain. India is counting on that to validate its investment in the type. If successful, the improved model could pave the way for higher-capability evolutions of the Tejas.

www.forbes.com

"The IAF did chose to procure Tejas jets, but the service’s auditor general criticized the design for failing to meet 53 criteria, including deficiencies in its radar- and missile-warning systems, limited internal fuel, underpowered engine relative airframe weight, and lack of electronic warfare support."

Tejas 1A to fix these issues isnt expect until 2023 to 2024 at best.
but this point is moot, because even if the 1A is in service today, it gains you nothing because it is still inferior to J-10C and J-16 and especially the j-20 in PLA service right now.

ballistic missiles is not a match for rocket artillery. one is much easier and cheaper to produce and china has an overwhelming number of both in any case. in addition to terrain advantages, nearly 1/2 of indian population is in range of cheap to produce chinese rocket artillery. meanwhile most of china's population is only vulnerable to expensive intermediate range indian rockets

again, im not saying the indian military is terrible. its quite powerful in fact, but you aren't facing Bangladesh, china absolutely can, if push came to shove, take the disputed areas. it cannot occupy all of india or anything like that nor does it want to, but it has more than enough firepower and equipment advantages to take the disputed areas. but it would not do so without huge provocation or even large attacks from the indian side since china has bigger fish to fry, well really just the one fish bigger than china atm. the us in a korea or taiwan scenario.

 

[etylo]

Even that technological advantage isn't great enough to overwhelm us.

I know that china relies on mobilisation of reserves from chendu and other areas to blunt an indian offensive. But those forces are not light, they are heavy and will take time for induction. What if india destroys the means of communication and transport between tibet and chengdu. How will you mobilise then ?china has recognised that threat and permanently deployed most it's HQ forces in chendu to Tibet/aksai chin since 2020. So that has essentially allowed you to lose the element of strategic surprise

Indians took no counter mobilisation on a large scale in response to that. That shows our intent was never supposed to be escalation. And India's army was too small back then and poorly equipped whereas PLA prepared for the war

What about the road in aksai chin?

PLA has now permanently stationed forces in Tibet. Now it has added a burden on itself. Manning the LAC and fortifying it 24/7. Till 2020 china's western border was dormant and now its active adding to the trouble in the east




It did in the past. Not now

I know that, it's almost replaced

No, the standard issue now is sig716 for frontlime units and ak203 for other forces.

Lol, clearly you're uneducated on this topic. Arjun wasn't inducted in large no.s simply because it has logisitcs limitations on marshy/hilly terrain. That's why all of them are employed in desert sector. Arjun Mk1a is an excellent tank when it comes to technology

Again that bias ? 2 squadrons of Tejas is literally in Service right now with another 4 squadrons (83 jets) on order.



India can match PHL03 , PCL 191 which can launch ballisitc missiles can be matched by India's tactical ballistic missiles. Like Prahaar and Pralay

Indian military relies on towed artillery. We have literally thousands of that. SP arty can only be used in limited areas where the approaches to valleys are flat like depsang and chushul

Ok, I admit that india has no answer to J20. It won't have an answet till 2030 at least. But india will reduce china's drone advantage in a few years with Ghatak, Project cheetah and archer. Indian army has inducted swarm drones in it's service and demonstrated them in multiple military exercise. We have also stocked up loitering munitions and tactical missiles.

I know and I admit that china is more powerful. But my point is that the power china has is not enough to overwhelm india just like india can't overwhelm Pakistan.

Yes, but it has tested a few with success

What if india get obliterated before it can destroy the roads and rail lines to tibet.