Reverse Engineering Is Extremely Difficult

[Martian2]

Quite frankly, I'm shocked that there has been no evidence of reverse-engineering among any of China's major weapons. The only thing that we can point to with certainty is a minor torpedo. If a fisherman hadn't caught a Mark-48 torpedo in his fishing net, I'm not sure that we can even point to a reverse-engineered torpedo.

Looking at the pictures in this thread and the list below, it is apparent that China's weapons are indigenous and very distinctive in appearance. It's obvious that their designs are completely different. For example, the WZ-10 attack helicopter is an unique creation.

They are not reverse-engineered/reinvented clones. I could post additional pictures of China's KJ-2000, KJ-200, J-10B, Beidou satellite, DH-10 cruise missile, etc. However, it would be pointless.

It is a revelation to me that reverse-engineering plays virtually no part or only a minor part in China's weapon modernization program. I think my thread is obsolete because it has little relevance. This is not the outcome that I had expected, but reverse-engineering seems to play a trivial role in China's weapons development.

China's indigenous weapons:

Type 052C Aegis-class destroyer (sea)
Type 99 Main Battle Tank (land)
WZ-10 Attack Helicopter (air)
Type 093 Shang-class Nuclear Attack Submarine (underwater)
Type 094 Jin-class SSBN
Julang-2 SLBM

W-88 advanced miniaturized 475 kiloton thermonuclear warhead (seismograph is "similar," but not identical)

China's ASAT (i.e. anti-satellite test; space)
China's mid-course GBI (i.e. ground-based-interceptor; mid-course missile intercept)
China's ASBM (i.e. anti-ship ballistic missile; U.S. says weapon has been tested but no details of the tests have been released)

China's reverse-engineered weapon:

Yu-6 torpedo (e.g. Mark-48 class torpedo)

A fitting conclusion to China's indigenous weapons. China's most-powerful Jin-class SSBN nuclear deterrent.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

Then my view is different from yours. I believe innovation is Science.

Innovation is what makes a person a scientist. No amount of reverse engg can induce the kind of knowledge required to create world class products. A person who believes in reverse engg can never go that extra mile to research and experiment. He'll be used to previous already available results.

This is what we learn as engineers, keep working those grey cells, till you understand, or get the solution.

In that case India sorely lacks scientists, because compared to even Vietnam, India does not innovate. Indians are great at boasting and stealing other people's creations and then making up all sorts of bogus stories (like "inventing zero", or being the first supernatural space travellers, or using yogic powers to live for eternity without food or water, etc).

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

simple answer for all this crap

China's Loongson Processor Could Power First Natural-Born Chinese Supercomputer - Supercomputer - Gizmodo

The People's Republic has unveiled more details on its quest to phase U.S.-made processors from its microchip diet. China's next supercomputer will run purely on Chinese processors, possibly before the end of this year.

China has been developing its own CPUs at the state-run Institute of Computing Technology (ICT) for several years, but iterations of its chip – known as Loongson or "Dragon Core" – have been incapable of breaking into the elite ranks of supercomputing. China's last supercomputer, the Dawning 5000a, was intended to run on Loongson processors, but was eventually constructed around AMD processors when the ICT couldn't deliver a powerful enough chip quickly enough.

The Loongson 3, under development since 2001, should change all this if the ICT can deliver on its promise. Based on the MIPS architecture, the chips theoretically can be strung in 16-core clusters to perform at extremely high speeds, possibly hitting the petaflop performance mark with just 782 16-core chips. That's one quadrillion operations per second, for those of you keeping score.

Right now, of course, this is all on paper (well, a quad-core chip is in prototype, but the proposed 16-core bad boy is still under development). But authorities in the supercomputing field seem to agree that the chips, running in clusters, can hit the performance marks necessary to create a top-tier supercomputer. This isn't the first time the Chinese have promised a home-grown high-performance supercomputer, but for the first time it looks like they are going to deliver.

so brother live in your own world

Dude, this is an outdated article. Let's get with the times. China has already successfully created a PETAFLOP SUPERCOMPUTER, the only 2nd nation in the world to do so using a domestically developed CPU.

 

[below_freezing]

Then my view is different from yours. I believe innovation is Science.

Innovation is what makes a person a scientist. No amount of reverse engg can induce the kind of knowledge required to create world class products. A person who believes in reverse engg can never go that extra mile to research and experiment. He'll be used to previous already available results.

This is what we learn as engineers, keep working those grey cells, till you understand, or get the solution.

really? what do you use in your labs? i use western/northern/southern blotting, IHC, PCR, culturing and autoclaving. so does everyone in biology.

did they invent these tools? no. did they even manufacture the equipment to carry these out? no. wow, i guess they must all be FAKE, NO INNOVATION COPYING since 1.) the research could never have been carried out without using those machines, and 2.) very few biologists can design an autoclave, or manufacture a PCR machine, or make the flourescent secondary antibody needed to carry out IHC/western blotting, etc etc.

world class engineers also don't make their own screwdrivers, they must be FAKE NO INNOVATION COPYING.

 

[no_name]

Then my view is different from yours. I believe innovation is Science.

Innovation is what makes a person a scientist. No amount of reverse engg can induce the kind of knowledge required to create world class products. A person who believes in reverse engg can never go that extra mile to research and experiment. He'll be used to previous already available results.

This is what we learn as engineers, keep working those grey cells, till you understand, or get the solution.

Reverse engineering and innovation are not mutually exclusive. Engineers also learn to reverse engineer, otherwise why is it called reverse 'engineering'.

Solving problems is innovation. If a new material is needed to be made from scratch then it is a problem in itself to be solved and that involves innovation. The complete torpedo is thus composed of many innovations.

 

[new wave]

Reverse engineering: keeping obsolete parts alive - Military & Aerospace Electronics

by John Rhea

FORT BELVOIR, Va. - In their ongoing struggle with the problem of diminishing manufacturing sources (DMS), defense officials are increasingly turning to a form of reverse engineering known as emulation. This approach will get the semiconductor parts they need for aging weapon systems - even for such new programs as the U.S. Air Force`s F-22 Raptor air superiority fighter, which is not yet in full production.

Gregory Saunders, the director of the Defense Standardization Office, who sounded an alarm over the dimensions of the DMS problem during his keynote speech at the COTScon `98 in May, says emulation isn`t DOD`s first choice, but it beats the even more expensive approaches of redesigning systems or replacing entire boards. There are other ways, but they also carry disadvantages. Stocking parts in advance for the lifetime of a weapon system is a dicey matter at best and requires informed judgments as early as possible in the lifecycle. Another option is the "trailing edge" suppliers of microcircuits, such as Lansdale Semiconductor in Tempe, Ariz., and Rochester Electronics of Newburyport, Mass. Saunders cautions, however, that using trailing-edge tech- nology can run from "as little as 50 percent more [than the original parts] and as high as five to eight times as much."

Emulation is just one of the tools in DOD`s tool kit to try to breathe life into obsolete parts, and defense officials are taking a bicoastal approach with an in-house operation and a contractor-operated one-stop semiconductor shopping center. The West Coast in-house operation, which Saunders says specializes in "onsey, twosey" jobs, is the Defense Microelectronics Activity (DMEA) at McClellan Air Force Base, Calif. DMEA, which had long been the Air Force`s listening post to stay abreast of the latest developments in Silicon Valley, was on the Base Realignment and Closure, or BRAC, hit list, but it was rescued two years ago and turned into a tri-service fabless semiconductor house to respond to special needs.

In a parallel action on the East Coast, DOD officials have funded Sarnoff Corp. of Princeton, N.J., for what is known as the Generalized Emulation of Microcircuits, or GEM, program for the high-volume requirements. GEM started in 1988 as a research and development effort involving the 1.5-micron feature size BiCMOS process and is currently a tri-service initiative of the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) contracted through the Defense Supply Center Columbus (DSCC), Columbus, Ohio.

Sarnoff got its first Qualified Manufacturers List (QML) certification from DSCC in 1996 and is scheduled to have full QML certification in place this month. However, the GEM program has already yielded a total of more than 350,000 parts for such aging programs as the Navy`s AN/UYK-44 standard shipboard computer, NASA`s space shuttle, the Air Force`s F-15 fighter, and the Army`s PRC-70 mobile radios.

The coordinating point for these efforts is Saunders`s office, which recently transferred from the Office of the Secretary of Defense to DLA to serve as the executive agent. The move was a lateral one, Saunders says, "without prejudice or reduction in numbers" of personnel. "There`s not a lot of political-level intervention," Saunders says in explaining the shift, and the office essentially deals with technical matters and works directly with the services.

Those up the line at the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition and Technology deal with the policy issues. DLA is now essentially divided into two wings, the Defense Contract Management Command and the Defense Logistics Support Command, and the standardization office is under the latter along with the various defense supply centers around the country.

Reverse engineering is a well-established practice in the semiconductor industry for companies to try to catch up with and surpass their rivals, and the DOD emulation effort benefits from some of those techniques. "All of this predated the Perry initiative [former Defense Secretary William Perry`s call for maximum use of commercial off-the-shelf (COTS) technology] and is an outgrowth of the way technology developed," Saunders continues. Nor is the DMS problem confined to the military. "Boeing and Lockheed Martin have exactly the same problems with their commercial aircraft," he points out.

The list of parts that the emulators produce, particularly under Sarnoff`s GEM effort, is a nostalgia trip for Silicon Valley veterans and must be a mystery for anyone who received an electrical engineering degree within the past decade: resistor-transistor logic, diode-transistor logic, transistor-transistor logic, emitter-coupled logic, and P-channel MOS.

Sarnoff alone has emulated more than 200 different designs within the government-owned library, and DMEA has designed operational amplifiers, voltage references, and phase-locked loops for fabrication by the specialty shops that abound around Silicon Valley. Another specialty at DMEA is hybrid devices, sometimes produced in lots as small as five or ten units and up to 100.

Occasionally, the emulators get lucky and actually drive down the prices of devices. One A-D converter chip for a Navy application was running $1,100 apiece from the commercial supplier before it bailed out of the business, but DMEA designers now have prototypes that they expect to cost $700. That number may drop even further if the part achieves sufficient volume.

Nonetheless, emulation remains, in Saunders`s words, "not the preferred option," but it will have to be one of the options until the magic day when all military systems can be designed with open-system architectures able to accommodate microcircuits not even dreamed about today. In the meantime, business couldn`t be better for Sarnoff and DMEA.

 

[ao333]

Dude, this is an outdated article. Let's get with the times. China has already successfully created a PETAFLOP SUPERCOMPUTER, the only 2nd nation in the world to do so using a domestically developed CPU.

****! What don't you get? China designed a chip and an Italian-French company using an American production line fabricated it. Do you understand the difference between drawing and cutting? China can produce supercomputers that are inferior to Japan's, both of which use Intel/AMD cores. No one in the world other than the United States can pack over a million transistors onto 1 die.

The fundamental difference between Intel and Nvidia is that the former oversees its plants and the latter being fabless -- the same difference between the US and China! For god's sake, China cannot even produce the silicon piece that is used to make larger circuit boards, let alone a CPU die.

Please be sensible and not so 50-cented, Martian2! I just recalled that I'm not getting paid for this...

 

[no_name]

****! What don't you get? China designed a chip and an Italian-French company using an American production line fabricated it. Do you understand the difference between drawing and cutting? China can produce supercomputers that are inferior to Japan's, both of which use Intel/AMD cores. No one in the world other than the United States can pack over a million transistors onto 1 die.

The fundamental difference between Intel and Nvidia is that the former oversees its plants and the latter being fabless -- the same difference between the US and China! For god's sake, China cannot even produce the silicon piece that is used to make larger circuit boards, let alone a CPU die.

Please be sensible and not so 50-cented, Martian2! I just recalled that I'm not getting paid for this...

It's not Martian2 but SinoIndusFriendship whos post you quote.

Also it's better if you don't accuse people of being 50 cents if you don't have proof.

 

[Martian2]

****! What don't you get? China designed a chip and an Italian-French company using an American production line fabricated it. Do you understand the difference between drawing and cutting? China can produce supercomputers that are inferior to Japan's, both of which use Intel/AMD cores. No one in the world other than the United States can pack over a million transistors onto 1 die.

The fundamental difference between Intel and Nvidia is that the former oversees its plants and the latter being fabless -- the same difference between the US and China! For god's sake, China cannot even produce the silicon piece that is used to make larger circuit boards, let alone a CPU die.

Please be sensible and not so 50-cented, Martian2! I just recalled that I'm not getting paid for this...

I don't understand the distinction that you're trying to make between Intel and Nvidia. Nvidia merely uses the services of TSMC (i.e. Taiwan Semiconductor; world's largest contract chip maker). Nvidia intentionally operates on a fabless model because it is more efficient, lowers costs, and generates higher profits.

Owning, operating, maintaining, repairing, and upgrading your own semiconductor fabrication plant are based on an antiquated business model. There is plenty of independent contract chip manufacturers, such as Taiwan's TSMC, UMC (i.e. United Microelectronics; world's second-largest contract chip maker), or SMIC (i.e. Semiconductor Manufacturing International; China's largest microchip manufacturer).

no_name is right. You are confusing someone else's posts with mine.

People's Daily Online -- China joins top rank of world chipmakers

"China joins top rank of world chipmakers

China's largest microchipmaker opened the country's most advanced semiconductor manufacturing plant Saturday, launching China into the top ranks of the global chipmaking industry.

Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp., founded in 2000 by a Taiwanese executive who spent 20 years at U.S. chipmaker Texas Instruments Inc., cut the ribbon on its fifth factory at a ceremony in Beijing.

The plant is China's first to process silicon wafers that are 300-millimeter in diameter. These yield more than twice as many chips as the previous generation of 200-millimeter wafers.

Only a handful of the world's largest global chipmakers in the United States, Europe, Taiwan and South Korea can afford the billion-dollar investments needed for 300-millimeter factories.

"It's a breakthrough for China's semiconductor industry," said Byron Wu, the China research manager for iSuppli Corp., an El-Segundo, California-based technology market research firm.

SMIC, as the chipmaker is known, is the fifth-largest semiconductor foundry, or company that manufactures chips designed by other firms. SMIC has counted Texas Instruments, Broadcom Corp. and Germany's Infineon Technologies AG as key customers.

Poised to become the world's largest market for semiconductors in 2006, according to government estimates, China is rushing to develop a strong domestic chip industry, of which SMIC represents the crown jewel. China has more than 300 million mobile phone users and is seeing booming demand for computers, televisions and other electronics amid strong economic growth.

But for China to compete with the likes of the United States, it cannot simply rely on a single premier chip foundry, some analysts point out. More attention must be paid to growing the country's chip design capabilities and base of equipment and materials suppliers, they say.

"I think the whole supply chain is going to need to develop," said Dan Tracy, a senior director at San Jose, California-based trade group Semiconductor Equipment and Materials International.

That may take some time. SMIC officials note that it may be five to seven years before China will have 10 domestic chip designers with more than US$100 million in annual sales.

"Design houses in China are very strong in marketing. What they need is experienced designers to design the products," SMIC chief executive Richard Chang told reporters.

There is fierce competition from the more developed foundry industry in Taiwan. The largest foundry, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. already has two 300-millimeter factories and is set to open a third by the end of this year.

Growing chip capacity also poses its own threat to the likes of SMIC. Overproduction four years ago, combined with the bursting of the Internet and telecommunications investment bubbles, brought on the industry's worst-ever downturn.

Chang has shrugged off concerns about overcapacity, saying his company's factories are virtually fully booked with customer orders into next year. He adds that SMIC will be able to ride the wave of China's burgeoning demand, which could see growth all the way through 2010, even if demand elsewhere in the world weakens.

SMIC partnered with German chipmaker Infineon and Japan's Elpida, a joint venture between NEC Corp. and Hitachi Ltd. to develop its 300-millimeter wafer technology.

Source: Shenzhen Daily/agencies"

 

[chopstickninja]

It saddens me how much Indians frequently pop in to ruin the euphoria of whatever achievements we Chinese can make. Not being racially discriminating but I've frequented this site several years before joining and I'm seeing a trend.

But yes, reverse engineering is quite hard. I'm not saying starting from scratch isn't harder than RE-ing something, but most don't realize there's more to copying and pasting a design. We understand that developing indigenous designs are hard, as only recently have we been doing so, but we aren't sure everyone else understands what we go through to RE something. Its painting a bad image for the only technique for developing a self-sufficient R&D system. Only after you get the hang of being able to create, develop, and perfect a design that's been tried and proven, can you do things by yourself.

 

[Martian2]

It saddens me how much Indians frequently pop in to ruin the euphoria of whatever achievements we Chinese can make. Not being racially discriminating but I've frequented this site several years before joining and I'm seeing a trend.

But yes, reverse engineering is quite hard. I'm not saying starting from scratch isn't harder than RE-ing something, but most don't realize there's more to copying and pasting a design. We understand that developing indigenous designs are hard, as only recently have we been doing so, but we aren't sure everyone else understands what we go through to RE something. Its painting a bad image for the only technique for developing a self-sufficient R&D system. Only after you get the hang of being able to create, develop, and perfect a design that's been tried and proven, can you do things by yourself.

Here is a picture of China's indigenous road-mobile ICBMs.

China?s Nuclear Option | The Diplomat

"China’s Nuclear Option
April 26, 2010

By Richard Weitz

Chinese policymakers say the country’s rapidly modernizing nuclear force is nothing to fear. They could do more to prove it."

 

[ao333]

I don't understand the distinction that you're trying to make between Intel and Nvidia. Nvidia merely uses the services of TSMC (i.e. Taiwan Semiconductor; world's largest contract chip maker). Nvidia intentionally operates on a fabless model because it is more efficient, lowers costs, and generates higher profits.

Owning, operating, maintaining, repairing, and upgrading your own semiconductor fabrication plant are based on an antiquated business model. There is plenty of independent contract chip manufacturers, such as Taiwan's TSMC, UMC (i.e. United Microelectronics; world's second-largest contract chip maker), or SMIC (i.e. Semiconductor Manufacturing International; China's largest microchip manufacturer).

no_name is right. You are confusing someone else's posts with mine.

People's Daily Online -- China joins top rank of world chipmakers

"China joins top rank of world chipmakers

China's largest microchipmaker opened the country's most advanced semiconductor manufacturing plant Saturday, launching China into the top ranks of the global chipmaking industry.

Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp., founded in 2000 by a Taiwanese executive who spent 20 years at U.S. chipmaker Texas Instruments Inc., cut the ribbon on its fifth factory at a ceremony in Beijing.

The plant is China's first to process silicon wafers that are 300-millimeter in diameter. These yield more than twice as many chips as the previous generation of 200-millimeter wafers.

Only a handful of the world's largest global chipmakers in the United States, Europe, Taiwan and South Korea can afford the billion-dollar investments needed for 300-millimeter factories.

"It's a breakthrough for China's semiconductor industry," said Byron Wu, the China research manager for iSuppli Corp., an El-Segundo, California-based technology market research firm.

SMIC, as the chipmaker is known, is the fifth-largest semiconductor foundry, or company that manufactures chips designed by other firms. SMIC has counted Texas Instruments, Broadcom Corp. and Germany's Infineon Technologies AG as key customers.

Poised to become the world's largest market for semiconductors in 2006, according to government estimates, China is rushing to develop a strong domestic chip industry, of which SMIC represents the crown jewel. China has more than 300 million mobile phone users and is seeing booming demand for computers, televisions and other electronics amid strong economic growth.

But for China to compete with the likes of the United States, it cannot simply rely on a single premier chip foundry, some analysts point out. More attention must be paid to growing the country's chip design capabilities and base of equipment and materials suppliers, they say.

"I think the whole supply chain is going to need to develop," said Dan Tracy, a senior director at San Jose, California-based trade group Semiconductor Equipment and Materials International.

That may take some time. SMIC officials note that it may be five to seven years before China will have 10 domestic chip designers with more than US$100 million in annual sales.

"Design houses in China are very strong in marketing. What they need is experienced designers to design the products," SMIC chief executive Richard Chang told reporters.

There is fierce competition from the more developed foundry industry in Taiwan. The largest foundry, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. already has two 300-millimeter factories and is set to open a third by the end of this year.

Growing chip capacity also poses its own threat to the likes of SMIC. Overproduction four years ago, combined with the bursting of the Internet and telecommunications investment bubbles, brought on the industry's worst-ever downturn.

Chang has shrugged off concerns about overcapacity, saying his company's factories are virtually fully booked with customer orders into next year. He adds that SMIC will be able to ride the wave of China's burgeoning demand, which could see growth all the way through 2010, even if demand elsewhere in the world weakens.

SMIC partnered with German chipmaker Infineon and Japan's Elpida, a joint venture between NEC Corp. and Hitachi Ltd. to develop its 300-millimeter wafer technology.

Source: Shenzhen Daily/agencies"

Actually, I started another paragraph, just to insinuate and iterate your 50-centedness. I know who I'm quoting.

In any case, I was just trying to inform the Chinese people here that China can only design i486-equivalent CPUs but cannot fabricate them. It will be disgracing when they tell their non-Chinese friends that China can indigenously produce (design+fabricate) 80486 cores. In microarchitecture fields, it is much harder to fabricate than design a chip, as evident by the abundance of chip designers present in the world, but scarcity of fabrication plants capable of producing those designs.

And no, I have a hard time with People's Daily. I guess that's an image you guys are trying to change. Then again, it's intriguing how you never once mentinoed 50 cents in your posts. Is it against regulations? Do record-keepers scan your posts? Were you taught that arguing about 50 cent party would only worsen the situation? Furthermore, those wafers are not cpu dies. 300 mm can hardly make you anything. What's even more halarious is that that plant was transfered to mainland under heated pressure from the United States. I think they're not allowing the 400mm to go to China.

 

[Martian2]

Actually, I started another paragraph, just to insinuate your 50-centedness. I know who I'm quoting.

In any case, I was just trying to inform the Chinese people here that China can only design i486-equivalent CPUs but cannot fabricate them. It will be disgracing when they tell their non-Chinese friends that China can indigenously produce (design+fabricate) 80486 cores. In microarchitecture fields, it is much harder to fabricate than design a chip, as evident by the abundance of chip designers present in the world, but scarcity of fabrication plants capable of producing those designs.

And no, I have a hard time with People's Daily. I guess that's an image you guys are trying to change.

I don't understand why you think China can't fabricate microchips. China's SMIC has plenty of manufacturing capability.

PHOTOS COURTESY OF SMIC

See MICRO: The MICRO Interview

Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation, (abbrev. SMIC, NYSE: SMI, SEHK: 981) is a semiconductor foundry in mainland China, providing integrated circuit (IC) manufacturing services at 350 nm to 45nm technologies. Incorporated in the Cayman Islands and headquartered in Shanghai, SMIC has wafer fabrication sites throughout China, account management offices in the US, Italy, and Japan, marketing and customer service offices in Taiwan and Israel, and a representative office in Hong Kong.

SMIC was founded by Dr. Richard Chang (Traditional Chinese: 張汝&#20140 in April 2000. SMIC had its IPO in 2004 and has since become the largest and most advanced semiconductor foundry in mainland China.

Global Presence

Fabs

* 300mm wafer fabrication facility (fab) and three 200mm wafer fabs in its Shanghai (Mega-fab)
* Two 300mm wafer fabs in its Beijing (Mega-fab)
* 200mm wafer fab in Tianjin
* 200mm wafer fab under construction in Shenzhen
* In-house assembly and testing facility in Chengdu
* 200mm wafer fab in Chengdu owned by Cension Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation and managed and operated by SMIC
* 300mm wafer fab in Wuhan owned by Wuhan Xinxin Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation and managed and operated by SMIC

Customer Service/Marketing Offices

* Customer service and marketing offices in the U.S., Europe, and Japan, and a representative office in Hong Kong."

 

[ao333]

I don't understand why you think China can't fabricate microchips. China's SMIC has plenty of manufacturing capability.

PHOTOS COURTESY OF SMIC

See MICRO: The MICRO Interview

Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation, (abbrev. SMIC, NYSE: SMI, SEHK: 981) is a semiconductor foundry in mainland China, providing integrated circuit (IC) manufacturing services at 350 nm to 45nm technologies. Incorporated in the Cayman Islands and headquartered in Shanghai, SMIC has wafer fabrication sites throughout China, account management offices in the US, Italy, and Japan, marketing and customer service offices in Taiwan and Israel, and a representative office in Hong Kong.

SMIC was founded by Dr. Richard Chang (Traditional Chinese: 張汝&#20140 in April 2000. SMIC had its IPO in 2004 and has since become the largest and most advanced semiconductor foundry in mainland China.

Global Presence

Fabs

* 300mm wafer fabrication facility (fab) and three 200mm wafer fabs in its Shanghai (Mega-fab)
* Two 300mm wafer fabs in its Beijing (Mega-fab)
* 200mm wafer fab in Tianjin
* 200mm wafer fab under construction in Shenzhen
* In-house assembly and testing facility in Chengdu
* 200mm wafer fab in Chengdu owned by Cension Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation and managed and operated by SMIC
* 300mm wafer fab in Wuhan owned by Wuhan Xinxin Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation and managed and operated by SMIC

Customer Service/Marketing Offices

* Customer service and marketing offices in the U.S., Europe, and Japan, and a representative office in Hong Kong."

What's this gotta do with i486? Dude, the chip is 2 decades old, and a breakthrough in micro technology, which China has yet to break through.

 

[Martian2]

What's that gotta do with i486?

You said: "In any case, I was just trying to inform the Chinese people here that China can only design i486-equivalent CPUs but cannot fabricate them." (see your post #58; first sentence of second paragraph)

China can easily fabricate an i486-equivalent CPU in one of SMIC's fabrication facilities.



Here are your words from post #58:

In any case, I was just trying to inform the Chinese people here that China can only design i486-equivalent CPUs but cannot fabricate them. It will be disgracing when they tell their non-Chinese friends that China can indigenously produce (design+fabricate) 80486 cores. In microarchitecture fields, it is much harder to fabricate than design a chip, as evident by the abundance of chip designers present in the world, but scarcity of fabrication plants capable of producing those designs.