Resolve the Kahmir issue now

[Tshering22]

No thanks. We keep the claim of what is rightfully ours through history. The difference is, we can afford to wait and you cannot.

 

[53fd]

Pakistan should Be secular and reunite with India. All issue solved.

And Bangladesh should be secular, & reunite with India as well?

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Joint management of any area theoretically may seem possible but impossible to implement. Two women of the same family cannot manage a common kitchen - how can anyone expect region to be managed by two countries.

It is just not the land , there are more & larger issues , security being only one of them.

Conversion of the LC to IB is an option that will come closest to being workable.

Or else status quo will remain.

Status quo can not remain in the Kashmir valley , otherwise you will see unrest there every now and then like last year and our forces will be there forever .

Status quo should remain in Jammu and Ladakh but in the Valley of Kashmir we need to think out of the box . We should never completely give it up though .

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Pakistan should Be secular and reunite with India. All issue solved.

Atleast put a laughing emoticon , this is the kind of stuff that scares the hel* out of our neighbours and makes them worry more about Akhand Bharat than the average Indian .

 

[PlanetWarrior]

If only other discussions on Kashmir could be as mostly civil and decent as most of the ones here.

To resolve the Kashmir disputes, both Pakistan and India need to engage with the people most affected and that would be the Kashmiris. Thereafter the sharing of Kashmir , water resources etc can be discussed between these two nations. Or else the talks will just remain talks and any agreement reached between Pakistan and India over Kashmir would be disregarded by the people of Kashmir. It is about time that the true leadership of the Kashmiri people are identified to ensure that the real voice of all Kashmiris including the Pandits are heard loud and clear

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

@ Chikku -Buddy leave it , this is a good thread , please don't derail it.

 

[53fd]

I am serious. Whats the use of a pakistan + Kashmere-Electricity-Emplyoment+radical extremists-Economy-Railways ??

Strength lies in unity and not division. After all we have same ancestors. :wink:

Having amicable relations between the two nations would be an outstanding achievement in itself, forget about reuniting. Both Pakistan & India have enough internal problems as it is.

 

[third eye]

India and Pakistan will HAVE to learn to live with each other. There is no way around it. If Karzai calls Pakistan a 'conjoined twin' of Afghanistan then India is a conjoined twin of Pakistan--and vice versa.
BELIEVE ME: India and Pakistan peace or at least detente is going to happen. Most probably in our own life time. With that in mind we need start accelerating that process. Why wait for 5 or 10 or 50 more years to do the needful when you can do it now?
Kashmir is the issue.
But is Kashmir larger than Pakistan? I don't think so.
The aim of Pakistan should be to normalize relations with India in such a way that Kashmiris--including the displaced Pundits--have justice while Pakistan's water-rights are not infringed upon. The aim of India should be to have a peaceful western border, along with access to the vast natural resources of Iran and Central Asia; Pakistan currently blocks that very lucrative path.

Of course devil is in the details.
LoC = IB solution is workable if India guarantees Kashmiris their due rights and Pakistan its water-security.
If that is too emotional of an issue then some kind of autonomous status for entire Kashmir. Some kind of Andorra Plan. Anything but status quo because status quo is killing our potentials. Today India is strong. But barely 5-6 years ago Pakistani economy too was galloping. Remove the terrorist threat and you will see Pakistan will bounce back. No more of these zero-sum games.
I WANT TO BE ABLE TO TRAVEL FROM KANYAKUMARI TO KHYBER WITHOUT UNDUE RESTRICTIONS IN MY OWN LIFETIME.

This I would rate as amongst the best posts on the subject.

 

[ashokdeiva]

India and Pakistan will HAVE to learn to live with each other. There is no way around it. If Karzai calls Pakistan a 'conjoined twin' of Afghanistan then India is a conjoined twin of Pakistan--and vice versa.
BELIEVE ME: India and Pakistan peace or at least detente is going to happen. Most probably in our own life time. With that in mind we need start accelerating that process. Why wait for 5 or 10 or 50 more years to do the needful when you can do it now?
Kashmir is the issue.
But is Kashmir larger than Pakistan? I don't think so.
The aim of Pakistan should be to normalize relations with India in such a way that Kashmiris--including the displaced Pundits--have justice while Pakistan's water-rights are not infringed upon. The aim of India should be to have a peaceful western border, along with access to the vast natural resources of Iran and Central Asia; Pakistan currently blocks that very lucrative path.

Of course devil is in the details.
LoC = IB solution is workable if India guarantees Kashmiris their due rights and Pakistan its water-security.
If that is too emotional of an issue then some kind of autonomous status for entire Kashmir. Some kind of Andorra Plan. Anything but status quo because status quo is killing our potentials. Today India is strong. But barely 5-6 years ago Pakistani economy too was galloping. Remove the terrorist threat and you will see Pakistan will bounce back. No more of these zero-sum games.
I WANT TO BE ABLE TO TRAVEL FROM KANYAKUMARI TO KHYBER WITHOUT UNDUE RESTRICTIONS IN MY OWN LIFETIME.

My friend or can I call you brother, your intensions are good and we welcome it, but the question why wait for 50 years is that, there are still bad elements on both the side of the border who like to derail the relationship for personal gain or who work as internal agents to the western powers who do not want us to be together. When the process of bilateral tries is slow, there is a steady relationship. but when it is fast, it has a tendency for failing due to volatial an ambigues environment.
I hope you wanted a long relation with India as so am I, we would have to sacrifice our dream of travelling from KANYAKUMARI TO KHYBER AND VICE VERSA so that our offsprings have that previlage to know our legacy.

 

[EjazR]

Before any decision is taken, the core issue is how to tackle groups like JuD/LeT or United Jihad Council and the times of Hafiz Saeed and so on. How do you disarm 1000s of militants without causing a backlash in Pakistan. No solution will satisfy this group and without GoP being comfortable of tackling them, they will not realistically try to come to a solution wether its LoC=IB or even some sort of joint management.

Without tackling the militant groups and their support base, it will be difficult to guarantee any deal on Kashmir.

 

[53fd]

The issue of Kashmir is interesting in other ways as well. The "whole Kashmir" (AJK + GB + J&K + Ladakh + Aksai Chin) is a very "diverse" state, with a wide range of ethnicities. The people of AJK have not very much in common with the people of J&K, besides religion (Sunni Islam) of course. The people of AJK speak Potwari, a type of Pahari, which is the language spoken in Rawalpindi, & is pretty similar to Punjabi. Very few residents of AJK speak Kashmiri. And most of the residents of J&K speak Kashmiri, with very few Potwari speakers. So there are lingual differences.

The residents of GB are ethnically different from the residents of J&K. The residents of GB (& Aksai Chin) are primarily of Mongolian-Tibetan ethnicity, whereas the residents of J&K have very "South Asian features". On top of that, the residents of GB do not want to unite with J&K (or AJK) & stay with Pakistan, because GB is a primarily Shia (Ismaili Shias, very liberal Muslims) dominated region, whereas both J&K & AJK are Sunni dominated areas. So I don't see any real problems in converting the LOC into the IB, as the people on both sides of the LOC are not "homogeneous". A case can be made on the basis of ethnic & lingual (& even religious, Shia-Sunni) lines to convert the LOC into the IB.

 

[53fd]

Before any decision is taken, the core issue is how to tackle groups like JuD/LeT or United Jihad Council and the times of Hafiz Saeed and so on. How do you disarm 1000s of militants without causing a backlash in Pakistan. No solution will satisfy this group and without GoP being comfortable of tackling them, they will not realistically try to come to a solution wether its LoC=IB or even some sort of joint management.

Without tackling the militant groups and their support base, it will be difficult to guarantee any deal on Kashmir.

These groups you are talking about have been banned in Pakistan since a long time. Since 2001, Pakistan has stopped any kind of support for these kind of groups. Convert the LOC into the IB, you will see the end of these groups. However, India must not jeopardize the supply of water (by controlling the rivers in Srinagar) into Pakistan either.

 

[third eye]

The issue of Kashmir is interesting in other ways as well. The "whole Kashmir" (AJK + GB + J&K + Ladakh + Aksai Chin) is a very "diverse" state, with a wide range of ethnicities. The people of AJK have not very much in common with the people of J&K, besides religion (Sunni Islam) of course. The people of AJK speak Potwari, a type of Pahari, which is the language spoken in Rawalpindi, & is pretty similar to Punjabi. Very few residents of AJK speak Kashmiri. And most of the residents of J&K speak Kashmiri, with very few Potwari speakers. So there are lingual differences.

The residents of GB are ethnically different from the residents of J&K & Ladakh. The residents of GB (& Aksai Chin) are primarily of Mongolian-Tibetan ethnicity, whereas the residents of J&K & Ladakh have very "South Asian features". On top of that, the residents of GB do not want to unite with J&K (or AJK) & stay with Pakistan, because GB is a primarily Shia (Ismaili Shias, very liberal Muslims) dominated region, whereas both J&K & AJK are Sunni dominated areas. So I don't see any real problems in converting the LOC into the IB, as the people on both sides of the LOC are not "homogeneous". A case can be made on the basis of ethnic & lingual (& even religious, Shia-Sunni) lines to convert the LOC into the IB.

The IB can only be converted into an IB on ' as is where is" basis.

Not selectively on ethnic, lingual or religious grounds.

 

[53fd]

The IB can only be converted into an IB on ' as is where is" basis.

Not selectively on ethnic, lingual or religious grounds.

Of course. But I meant as a persuasion to the Kashmiri people, if you know what I mean. The support for freeing Kashmir from both India & Pakistan is not very strong, & is basically fueled by religious sentiments, not really ethnic ones. I believe most people on both sides of the LOC have accepted their fate, & it is only the religious zealots that are spurring them on.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The residents of GB are ethnically different from the residents of J&K & Ladakh. The residents of GB (& Aksai Chin) are primarily of Mongolian-Tibetan ethnicity, whereas the residents of J&K & Ladakh have very "South Asian features".

Really? I didn't know that the population of GB have East Asian features.

And GB really must stay with Pakistan, otherwise the land-link between China and Pakistan will be broken.