Reports of Noshki FC HQ under attack

[sparten]

Iran with all its global sanctions managed to defend its national interests far better than Pakistan

Buzztttt, wrong. They certainly shouted a lot more than we did, but we never signed such an ignominious agreement such as the JCPOA. Gave up on their program, only to get sanctioned again. And getting global sanctions is not a symbol of pride. We have been able to secure our interest and mitigate sanctions to a large extent. That’s excellent diplomacy. Iran has managed to isolate itself.

We have force a very unwilling world to accept is as a nuclear power, and avoided being isolated. Our diplomatic and IR clout is a hell of a lot more than what @TheEagle and @JamD think.
Which is why our squeamishness here makes no sense.

Do you think I'm posting propaganda in favour of the BLA?

Yes. Mostly unintentionally I am sure, but you are.

 

[JamD]

That’s a remarkably silly take, with respect. We have in the last 4 decade faces down TWO superpowers in Afghan and gone the dictates of the worlds strongest powers in foreign and security policy, all the while having a worse economy than we have now.
If what you said was true we would have not acted the way we did in Afghanistan, nor persisted with our nuclear program, inspire of some enormous international pressure.

It might be silly and I might be totally wrong. I'd like to think that what I wrote is a better explanation than just consistently "khassi" across the board lol.

Regarding Soviet invasion of Afghanistan: We played off one super power against another. We weren't bank rolling that effort.
Regarding US invasion of Afghanistan: We literally sided with the US and got all sorts of economic and military benefits for a decade after eventually falling out and we are seeing the economic consequences of that falling out.
Regarding Nuclear Program: That was really do or die and we would have accepted every kind of pressure for that.

You seem to be arguing that since we have borne some pressures we can bare all pressures. I don't agree with that logic. I think we have the ability to bare some pressures but our ability to bare pressures is remarkably small compared to our neighbors and competitors.

Iran with all its global sanctions managed to defend its national interests far better than Pakistan

Srilanka with little to no economic clout managed to defend its national interests far better than Pakistan

Even IEA or Taliban of Afghanistan are far confident in defending themselves with literally nothing than Paksitan

The fact is that rulers of this country whether in uniform or without uniform simply don't care about the soldiers dying and economy has simply nothing to do with it

Iran Import/Export per capita = $155/ $202 (around $24 of this is oil export)
Pakistan Import/Export per capita = $34 / $13
1. Look how much more internationally integrated Iran is compared to Pakistan.
2. They are doing this while being under all of these global sanctions.
This really tells you how much of a gutter our economy is in.

source:

Iran Exports

Exports in Iran decreased to 13498 USD Million in the second quarter of 2024 from 13646 USD Million in the first quarter of 2024. This page provides - Iran Exports - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

Pakistan Exports

Exports in Pakistan increased to 781234 PKR Million in September from 769399 PKR Million in August of 2024. This page provides - Pakistan Exports - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

SriLinka did what? They are constantly being bullied by India. They were recently bullied into dropping the JF-17. They were able to defeat the LTTE because the world had no stake in destabilizing Sri Linka and they were able to play off support from Pakistan against Indian interests. Kind of like what we did in Afghanistan against Russia with US help.

IEA: Even they are opening girls schools now due to economic pressure. They are able to blackmail Pakistan with instability and refugees.

Leaders not caring about soldiers dying: I agree. Pakistani lives are worth less in their calculus. I would argue that this is also because of our economy but I don't want to sound like a broken record stuck on one point.

O bhai we can do a lot. We are not that less on resources. When you don't have guts even if you become super rich there would be excuses.

I'd like to think that we are not a nation of khassis and that given a half decent economic backbone we will do a lot of the things desired on this thread.

 

[Zarvan]

It might be silly and I might be totally wrong. I'd like to think that what I wrote is a better explanation than just consistently "khassi" across the board lol.

Regarding Soviet invasion of Afghanistan: We played off one super power against another. We weren't bank rolling that effort.
Regarding US invasion of Afghanistan: We literally sided with the US and got all sorts of economic and military benefits for a decade after eventually falling out and we are seeing the economic consequences of that falling out.
Regarding Nuclear Program: That was really do or die and we would have accepted every kind of pressure for that.

You seem to be arguing that since we have borne some pressures we can bare all pressures. I don't agree with that logic. I think we have the ability to bare some pressures but our ability to bare pressures is remarkably small compared to our neighbors and competitors.


Iran Import/Export per capita = $155/ $202 (around $24 of this is oil export)
Pakistan Import/Export per capita = $34 / $13
1. Look how much more internationally integrated Iran is compared to Pakistan.
2. They are doing this while being under all of these global sanctions.
This really tells you how much of a gutter our economy is in.

source:

Iran Exports

Exports in Iran decreased to 13498 USD Million in the second quarter of 2024 from 13646 USD Million in the first quarter of 2024. This page provides - Iran Exports - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

Pakistan Exports

Exports in Pakistan increased to 781234 PKR Million in September from 769399 PKR Million in August of 2024. This page provides - Pakistan Exports - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

SriLinka did what? They are constantly being bullied by India. They were recently bullied into dropping the JF-17. They were able to defeat the LTTE because the world had no stake in destabilizing Sri Linka and they were able to play off support from Pakistan against Indian interests. Kind of like what we did in Afghanistan against Russia with US help.

IEA: Even they are opening girls schools now due to economic pressure. They are able to blackmail Pakistan with instability and refugees.

Leaders not caring about soldiers dying: I agree. Pakistani lives are worth less in their calculus. I would argue that this is also because of our economy but I don't want to sound like a broken record stuck on one point.


I'd like to think that we are not a nation of khassis and that given a half decent economic backbone we will do a lot of the things desired on this thread.

No we won't be doing anything.

 

[313ghazi]

Buzztttt, wrong. They certainly shouted a lot more than we did, but we never signed such an ignominious agreement such as the JCPOA. Gave up on their program, only to get sanctioned again. And getting global sanctions is not a symbol of pride. We have been able to secure our interest and mitigate sanctions to a large extent. That’s excellent diplomacy. Iran has managed to isolate itself.

We have force a very unwilling world to accept is as a nuclear power, and avoided being isolated. Our diplomatic and IR clout is a hell of a lot more than what @TheEagle and @JamD think.
Which is why our squeamishness here makes no sense.


Yes. Mostly unintentionally I am sure, but you are.

lol - thats hilarious. we should have a seperate conversation about this.

 

[Areesh]

It might be silly and I might be totally wrong. I'd like to think that what I wrote is a better explanation than just consistently "khassi" across the board lol.

Regarding Soviet invasion of Afghanistan: We played off one super power against another. We weren't bank rolling that effort.
Regarding US invasion of Afghanistan: We literally sided with the US and got all sorts of economic and military benefits for a decade after eventually falling out and we are seeing the economic consequences of that falling out.
Regarding Nuclear Program: That was really do or die and we would have accepted every kind of pressure for that.

You seem to be arguing that since we have borne some pressures we can bare all pressures. I don't agree with that logic. I think we have the ability to bare some pressures but our ability to bare pressures is remarkably small compared to our neighbors and competitors.


Iran Import/Export per capita = $155/ $202 (around $24 of this is oil export)
Pakistan Import/Export per capita = $34 / $13
1. Look how much more internationally integrated Iran is compared to Pakistan.
2. They are doing this while being under all of these global sanctions.
This really tells you how much of a gutter our economy is in.

source:

Iran Exports

Exports in Iran decreased to 13498 USD Million in the second quarter of 2024 from 13646 USD Million in the first quarter of 2024. This page provides - Iran Exports - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

Pakistan Exports

Exports in Pakistan increased to 781234 PKR Million in September from 769399 PKR Million in August of 2024. This page provides - Pakistan Exports - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

SriLinka did what? They are constantly being bullied by India. They were recently bullied into dropping the JF-17. They were able to defeat the LTTE because the world had no stake in destabilizing Sri Linka and they were able to play off support from Pakistan against Indian interests. Kind of like what we did in Afghanistan against Russia with US help.

IEA: Even they are opening girls schools now due to economic pressure. They are able to blackmail Pakistan with instability and refugees.

Leaders not caring about soldiers dying: I agree. Pakistani lives are worth less in their calculus. I would argue that this is also because of our economy but I don't want to sound like a broken record stuck on one point.


I'd like to think that we are not a nation of khassis and that given a half decent economic backbone we will do a lot of the things desired on this thread.

Your post and your point of view can be best summarized by an idiom in Urdu

"Na Nau Man tel hoga. Na Radha Naachai Gi"

Na economy achi hogi na Pakistan k fauji aur civilian marna band hoon gai

I think that is the message that you want to give with you post

Surely economy doesn't get improve in a day or two or few months

It would take years and years of right policies plus favorable regional and global environment to get economy to a stable point where we can do something about our security situation

In short Pakistani soldiers and civilians would continue to die till economy gets imrpoved

Oh wait.... Economy can't improve when soldiers and civilians are dying around daily

See?? We are in a circle with the reasoning that you have given and hence a poor excuse to hide or cover failures of the higherups

 

[Patriot forever]

Iran with all its global sanctions managed to defend its national interests far better than Pakistan

Srilanka with little to no economic clout managed to defend its national interests far better than Pakistan

Even IEA or Taliban of Afghanistan are far confident in defending themselves with literally nothing than Paksitan

The fact is that rulers of this country whether in uniform or without uniform simply don't care about the soldiers dying and economy has simply nothing to do with it

The reason is very obvious.

I can tell you if army did actually start killing the rats like mir or gorayas there are many people on this very forum who would go up in arms against the army and bring bullshits like freedom of expression, human rights or right to dissent.

Do you really can't tell if you go on social media 'kis kay dil may laddo phot rahay hain' or 'kon magar much kay anso baha raha hai' or 'kon isay apnay maqasid kay lye istimal kar raha hai' soldiers ki sahadat per.

 

[Areesh]

The reason is very obvious.

I can tell you if army did actually start killing the rats like mir or gorayas there are many people on this very forum who would go up in arms against the army and bring bullshits like freedom of expression, human rights or right to dissent.

Do you really can't tell if you go on social media 'kis kay dil may laddo phot rahay hain' or 'kon magsr much kay a so baha raha hai' soldiers ki sahadat per.

National security is above someone's liking or disliking

Army can't stop protecting national security of this country just because some people in Karachi and Lahore would hate them

Army needs to do its job no matter what

 

[Areesh]

Anywhere from 7 to 12 FC soldiers have embraced shahadat. More than 15 Ts have been killed now.

13 terrorists killed confirm

4-5 are still at large

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Can someone plz clarify, isn't FC Bloachistan is not Frontier Constublary but Frontier Corp and is part of PakArmy?

they are paramilitarily force not regular army hence lesser equipped and trained. FC = Frontier constublary

 

[Windjammer]

Ahaaa.....look three Haramis died in each others arms.
Oh well, they will also get roasted together in the same Tandoor.

 

[Amaa'n]

According to information available,

Anil baloch alias Balaach 'Zehri' hailed from Khuzdar

Deedag Bahar alias Raouf Bolani hailed from Bolan

 

[JamD]

Your post and your point of view can be best summarized by an idiom in Urdu

"Na Nau Man tel hoga. Na Radha Naachai Gi"

Na economy achi hogi na Pakistan k fauji aur civilian marna band hoon gai

I think that is the message that you want to give with you post

Surely economy doesn't get improve in a day or two or few months

It would take years and years of right policies plus favorable regional and global environment to get economy to a stable point where we can do something about our security situation

In short Pakistani soldiers and civilians would continue to die till economy gets imrpoved

Yes. That's exactly right.

Oh wait.... Economy can't improve when soldiers and civilians are dying around daily

I don't think so. I certainly hope not. Time are and will be tough, no denying that.

See?? We are in a circle with the reasoning that you have given and hence a poor excuse to hide or cover failures of the higherups

No, I don't see. You are arguing that because economy cannot progress unless there is peace, that means that the elite is unable to act because of other vested interests and not because of economic backbone. I don't follow the logic here or how this is circular reasoning.

I am not the kind of person to make excuses for our elite. I'm sure they are not blameless. But you can't ignore ground realities either, that's all. I've made my point and I have no intention of one upping you. Let's agree to disagree if we must. Good day janab.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In which case the army is still to blame for supporting these jahils the last 2 decades when we should have joined NATO and put our boots on the throats of these terrorist.

Not quite. Read through the transcripts released in Wikileaks between Karzai, US and Pakistan on the issue of terrorists attacking Pakistan, finding support and shelter in Afghanistan and from India. Some of the senior BLA/BLM/BRA leadership 'miraculously' managed to find asylum in Europe after that.

The issue was brought up repeatedly by Pakistan with the US/Afghanistan, when the relationship was still good. Unfortunately, the US was blinded by a sense of omnipotence and focused on wooing India and supporting Kabul at the expense of Pakistani national security concerns. What happened to the US-Pakistan relationship in subsequent years is apparent.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

I don't usually post on threads that get so many posts so quickly since it is more like Twitter and less like PDF, but I wanted to make an important point that most if not all replies are missing.

Everyone wants:
1. More military resources dedicated to Balochistan.
2. More assertiveness in dealing with Iran.
3. More assertiveness in dealing with UAE.
4. More assertiveness in dealing with India.
5. More socioeconomic development in Balochsitan.

But you know why Pakistan can't do those things to the level of other powerful nations? It's the economy stupid.

Yes we have managed to build a military that punches above its weight in terms of resources. But the nation standing behind it is poor and hungry and has no international clout. In this day and age international clout comes through trade relationships (which come from actually being able to trade).

Do you think Iran and the Arab gulf countries prefer to work with India because of emotional reasons? No. Its economic reasons that trump everything. Why does the world ignore Kashmir? It's the economy stupid.

If we had an economic leg to stand on we could actually have the international clout to do some of the things suggested by members here. If we had a robust economy that the world depended on do you think we wouldn't be hitting our enemies OPENLY wherever they were? Turkey can create a buffer zone in Syria and nobody bats an eye. We like to dream of hitting enemies like Israel but forget how they have the world by the balls and we are in IMF program after IMF program.

It is my opinion that once Pakistan's economy picks up and Pakistan becomes an important trading partner for its neighbors and the west, then Pakistan can be more forceful in the protection of its interest. This is basically what the national security policy is saying but it remains to be seen what effect that has on our state.

Given our current one way economic dependence all we can hope to do is barely operate within our borders (it costs a lot of money to do military operations) and be the nice guy or else the world wont play ball with us.

Conclusion: Get a robust economy. It will help with this among many other things.

Economy and governance
How dare we blame outsiders when at home we have Area B / Area A in baluchistan and we couldnt protect a pro-state CM from being kicked out.

 

[jupiter2007]

Riyasat is above any government. Army is going to do what they do best is to protect every inch of this country. They are willing to sacrifice their lives for us.
As far as intelligence goes, it’s not as simple as you think. Let ISI take care of the big targets and others will eventually fold once their funding will be dried.

For those who are crying for Balochistan, where were you for last 40 years when Balochistan provisional corrupt government officials were stealing millions of dollars of development funds? This money should have been spent on people of Balochistan. Did anyone raised their voice for lack of development in Balochistan?
Same people who are commenting against army and current government, were supporting PPP and PMLN when they stole over 50 billon dollars from Pakistan.

What is the solution for Balochistan? It’s simple, divided it into 5 administrative units and build security check points to control Terrorists movement and find their facilitators.