Report: India may attack Pakistan
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slugger
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Reporting for merger with this thread
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...-dec-possible-saudi-tornado-sighting-pak.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...-dec-possible-saudi-tornado-sighting-pak.html
Besides escalating the situation... what will the Indian side achieve by doing "surgical strikes" within Pakistani territory?
They will initially satisfy their hawk politicians and public..... there will be 100% guaranteed retaliation from the Pakistani side. Now where does this leave the Indian side? This will just snowball out of control.
Actions have consequences. I'm sure responsible people on both sides have calculated this.
Both Indian and Pakistani media is having a field day with these events. They are panning out BS.
They will initially satisfy their hawk politicians and public..... there will be 100% guaranteed retaliation from the Pakistani side. Now where does this leave the Indian side? This will just snowball out of control.
Actions have consequences. I'm sure responsible people on both sides have calculated this.
Both Indian and Pakistani media is having a field day with these events. They are panning out BS.
Luftwaffe
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NO Saudi Tornados for Pakistan... Saudi's will have to ask British Govt to give these babies to Pakistan. Its confirmed this is some photo taken from the internet posted here given the label thats these were flying over Pakistan. But there might be possibility of Chinese giving couple dozen JH-7s, but than again China itself has less than 60 JH-7s. So yeah Only A-5C were flying nothing else.
notorious_eagle
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Currently, PAF does not has enough good planes due to the sanctions in the 1990's. But things are changing and by 2015 PAF will be a lethal force. Pakistan is expected to have J10's, JF17's, F16 Block 52, F16MLU(which brings the current F16 Block 15's to Block 40) and 9 AWACS. With the addition of these birds, PAF will be a lethal force fully capable of matching India blow to blow. Dont forget that China is working very hard to produce its own 5th generation aircraft(Pakistan will acquire it) and there is always a possibility that PAF might also acquire J11. Currently, PAF is perfectly capable of defending the motherland but is not capable of attacking deep inside the Indian territory. But we dont need the PAF for that, dont forget that Pakistan has two cruise missiles in its arsenal perfectly capable of striking deep into the heart of India.
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Yesterday someone posted the image and here is analysis for you. Compare both pictures . What is authentication of picture 1. if anyone can verify this picture has been taken in Pakistan?. Because if its true then,they are Tornadoes.
1.
A picture from foreign source.
2.
Can tornadoes act as an aerial refueler? In the pic notice one tornado giving fuel to the other one.
Awesome
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Haider, Picture1 is from an air show in Riyadh. Look earlier into the thread, Kharian, posted its link from Reuters.Yesterday someone posted the image and here is analysis for you. Compare both pictures . What is authentication of picture 1. if anyone can verify this picture has been taken in Pakistan?. Because if its true then,they are Tornadoes.
1.
A picture from foreign source.
2.
Some more trash talk from across the border and I am sure that we are simply quaking in our boots because of the "awesomeness of the IAF armaments" 
. It seems that the AM is not only an expert on the awesomeness of the IAF, but he is also a renowned scholar of economics:
IAF ready to hit targets in Pak: Barbora
Correspondent
http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/...d=dec2508/at01
GUWAHATI, Dec 24 Asserting that the Indian Air Force (IAF), in the event of a war against Pakistan, is ready to cause maximum damage to Pakistan, AOC-in-C, Western Air Command, Air Marshal PK Barbora today stated that the neighbouring country is in awe of the IAF armaments.
Barbora, in a startling revelation, stated that the IAF has already prepared a plan of attack and had identified over 5,000 specific targets in Pakistan.
Besides, special groups have been formed to hit specific targets of the enemy.
Intelligence inputs gathered, especially post-Mumbai terror strikes, indicated that the neighbouring country is more concerned about the potent nature of the IAF than that of the Indian Army, in which it enjoys parity in strength, Barbora said during a media interaction programme Pride of North East in the city.
Substantiating his claim, the Air Chief Marshal, who recently served as the chief of the Eastern Command, stated that the IAF boasted the most advanced aircraft in its armour, including the potent SU 30 MKI, which was eight times more effective than a MiG 31.
Pakistan does not have SU 30 MKI, which is considered as the most powerful of the fourth-generation aircraft, Barbora stated, adding, The IAF is intending to induct 200 such aircraft and it currently has 100 of them.
Barbora stated that the IAF, which was the fourth largest airforce in the world, was also the fastest reacting force and in case a war was declared, it would take just a couple of hours for the force to man its security bases.
Though the Western Command chief, who hails from Assam, opined that the IAF was ready for any kind of eventuality, he reiterated that war is still considered as the fourth and the last resort.
The war would be declared only after the Government fails to reap the desired results from the first three available options, which are diplomatic solution, appeal to the international community for finding an amicable solution, and thirdly opting for Track 2 diplomacy, Barbora pointed out.
Asked to react on the Prime Minister Manmohan Singhs remark that war is not on Indias mind, Barbora further stated, The phase of global meltdown that every country, including Pakistan, is experiencing, could be one of the reasons for making such a statement.
Pakistans economy is in turmoil and has experienced the brunt of the economic meltdown in a bigger way than India and once the war is on, the scenario would further deteriorate, the impact of which would also affect India in the long run, Barbora pointed out, adding, Already, the neighbouring country has deployed around one lakh troops in the West to fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda, which would further affect their firepower.
We need to try all options before opting for a war. As there is instability in most of the neighbouring countries, including Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bhutan, war is not the preferred option, Barbora reiterated.
He also favoured building international pressure on Pakistan for creating a better atmosphere.
On the frequent MiG 21 crashes taking place, Barbora refuted the allegation that the aircraft were not safe to fly.
The fact that the IAF has more numbers of such aircraft, the probability of mishaps also increases with it. Under my command (Western) we still have seven squadrons of MiG 21 and I still fly them, Barbora asserted.
He, however, conceded that the MiG 21 aircraft were not easy to fly and the training module needed to be improved.
. It seems that the AM is not only an expert on the awesomeness of the IAF, but he is also a renowned scholar of economics:IAF ready to hit targets in Pak: Barbora
Correspondent
http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/...d=dec2508/at01
GUWAHATI, Dec 24 Asserting that the Indian Air Force (IAF), in the event of a war against Pakistan, is ready to cause maximum damage to Pakistan, AOC-in-C, Western Air Command, Air Marshal PK Barbora today stated that the neighbouring country is in awe of the IAF armaments.
Barbora, in a startling revelation, stated that the IAF has already prepared a plan of attack and had identified over 5,000 specific targets in Pakistan.
Besides, special groups have been formed to hit specific targets of the enemy.
Intelligence inputs gathered, especially post-Mumbai terror strikes, indicated that the neighbouring country is more concerned about the potent nature of the IAF than that of the Indian Army, in which it enjoys parity in strength, Barbora said during a media interaction programme Pride of North East in the city.
Substantiating his claim, the Air Chief Marshal, who recently served as the chief of the Eastern Command, stated that the IAF boasted the most advanced aircraft in its armour, including the potent SU 30 MKI, which was eight times more effective than a MiG 31.
Pakistan does not have SU 30 MKI, which is considered as the most powerful of the fourth-generation aircraft, Barbora stated, adding, The IAF is intending to induct 200 such aircraft and it currently has 100 of them.
Barbora stated that the IAF, which was the fourth largest airforce in the world, was also the fastest reacting force and in case a war was declared, it would take just a couple of hours for the force to man its security bases.
Though the Western Command chief, who hails from Assam, opined that the IAF was ready for any kind of eventuality, he reiterated that war is still considered as the fourth and the last resort.
The war would be declared only after the Government fails to reap the desired results from the first three available options, which are diplomatic solution, appeal to the international community for finding an amicable solution, and thirdly opting for Track 2 diplomacy, Barbora pointed out.
Asked to react on the Prime Minister Manmohan Singhs remark that war is not on Indias mind, Barbora further stated, The phase of global meltdown that every country, including Pakistan, is experiencing, could be one of the reasons for making such a statement.
Pakistans economy is in turmoil and has experienced the brunt of the economic meltdown in a bigger way than India and once the war is on, the scenario would further deteriorate, the impact of which would also affect India in the long run, Barbora pointed out, adding, Already, the neighbouring country has deployed around one lakh troops in the West to fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda, which would further affect their firepower.
We need to try all options before opting for a war. As there is instability in most of the neighbouring countries, including Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bhutan, war is not the preferred option, Barbora reiterated.
He also favoured building international pressure on Pakistan for creating a better atmosphere.
On the frequent MiG 21 crashes taking place, Barbora refuted the allegation that the aircraft were not safe to fly.
The fact that the IAF has more numbers of such aircraft, the probability of mishaps also increases with it. Under my command (Western) we still have seven squadrons of MiG 21 and I still fly them, Barbora asserted.
He, however, conceded that the MiG 21 aircraft were not easy to fly and the training module needed to be improved.
Goodperson
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Blain his statements were for Domestic consumption, Similar to statements made from across the border. Since "Economics" is brought up here is Editorial from Dailytimes.
Editorial: But the economy is a coward...
As Pakistan Air Force (PAF) jets flew across the skies, President Asif Ali Zardari said Indian statements posed a threat to regional peace, and Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani said if war is imposed on Pakistan it would be respond appropriately. Clearly, democracy is getting the back seat as aggression looms. The apparent intent behind these flights across Islamabad, Rawalpindi and Lahore is a warning to India, but it is also a psychological device to reassure Pakistanis.
On the Indian side, democracy is still calling the shots. Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee is delivering threats, saying if the world is not willing to take action against Pakistans terrorist infrastructure, India intends to keep all options open. While avoiding the Punjab border, India has deployed its quick reaction teams (QRTs) along the border in the western Rajasthan sector. That is the sector from where an Indian attack has always been gamed by the Pakistan army, but India says the ORTs are keeping a close watch on Pakistans possible air attack.
This could be a decoy, as apparent from PAFs alert of its air bases in Lahore, Sargodha and Chaklala, anticipating precision bombing attacks on the presumed terrorist camps in northern Pakistan. The PAF has been more aggressive and articulate from day one when all options were first put forward by Mr Mukherjee. The escalation so far is keeping clear of mobilisation of land forces on the border; and Pakistan is not removing its forces from the western border either. But it is in the nature of escalation to keep moving up the graph of hostilities.
Meanwhile, a high-level meeting under the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee chairman was held in Islamabad to discuss national security. The army chief, General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, reportedly told the visiting US Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman, Michael Mullen, on Monday that Pakistan reserves the right to defend itself in case of aggression from India. This is the eighth time that Mr Mullen has met Pakistans army chief and, despite his encouraging statements, we know he wants more action from Pakistan than just banning the Jamaat-ud Dawa.
As escalation proceeds, the democratically elected government in Islamabad will become less and less relevant, such is the character of war. People on ground looking up at the PAF jets screaming across the sky were supposed to feel secure, but they did not. Their reaction was panic. Telephones rang across Pakistan asking about the welfare of the families in the target area. Significantly, most of the calls came from Karachi, the hub of Pakistans troubled economy, where entrepreneurs make big risky investments on a daily basis. The people may be brave, but the economy anywhere in the world is a coward.
So when the politicians and journalists vow defensive aggression against India, they may be talking about themselves; and only after ignoring the economy. The finance adviser to the prime minister, Mr Shaukat Tareen, having staked his career to the challenge of grabbing the national economy from the brink, must be squirming. No matter what we do, no matter how good our response to the economic crisis, it is foredoomed by war. One can say that even rumours of war are a sure guarantee of the collapse one is trying to avoid. This time it is not only the dollars that will flee Pakistan, those who own the dollars will follow too.
Pakistan has to align itself with the international community as it faces an angry and rejectionist India. It has to consult China, its friend who did not veto the action against Pakistans non-state actors at the UN. Such is the importance of China in the public eye that acting on its advice will not be taken amiss. If Beijing advises more action against non-state actors and opposes the forgiving of sealed charities, its word should be taken seriously. And Pakistan must worry about the receding authority of the democratically elected government as Islamabad faces the media onslaught in favour of war.
Non-imperialist democracies dont go to war, not even defensive ones if they can avoid it. They are notoriously capitulationist, but soft-on-heroics. History always bounces back to praise their instinct of avoiding war. Nationalism looks good in the textbooks. It comes in handy for nation-building and the general requirement of unity within the state, but it is poison for democracy. It is suspect because it induces unity by designating an external enemy with whom the state must always be ready to go to war.
Indias war frenzy is derailing its purpose by forcing a bigger crisis that will take attention away from terrorism. It must listen to sane voices within India asking the election-focused politicians and the TV channels to cool off a bit and think of the inevitable nuclear war they will bring about. Pakistan is sick with internal disorder. You can run dictatorship without order but not democracy. Pakistan must show the world it is serious about getting rid of its disease. *
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Editorial: But the economy is a coward...
As Pakistan Air Force (PAF) jets flew across the skies, President Asif Ali Zardari said Indian statements posed a threat to regional peace, and Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani said if war is imposed on Pakistan it would be respond appropriately. Clearly, democracy is getting the back seat as aggression looms. The apparent intent behind these flights across Islamabad, Rawalpindi and Lahore is a warning to India, but it is also a psychological device to reassure Pakistanis.
On the Indian side, democracy is still calling the shots. Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee is delivering threats, saying if the world is not willing to take action against Pakistans terrorist infrastructure, India intends to keep all options open. While avoiding the Punjab border, India has deployed its quick reaction teams (QRTs) along the border in the western Rajasthan sector. That is the sector from where an Indian attack has always been gamed by the Pakistan army, but India says the ORTs are keeping a close watch on Pakistans possible air attack.
This could be a decoy, as apparent from PAFs alert of its air bases in Lahore, Sargodha and Chaklala, anticipating precision bombing attacks on the presumed terrorist camps in northern Pakistan. The PAF has been more aggressive and articulate from day one when all options were first put forward by Mr Mukherjee. The escalation so far is keeping clear of mobilisation of land forces on the border; and Pakistan is not removing its forces from the western border either. But it is in the nature of escalation to keep moving up the graph of hostilities.
Meanwhile, a high-level meeting under the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee chairman was held in Islamabad to discuss national security. The army chief, General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, reportedly told the visiting US Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman, Michael Mullen, on Monday that Pakistan reserves the right to defend itself in case of aggression from India. This is the eighth time that Mr Mullen has met Pakistans army chief and, despite his encouraging statements, we know he wants more action from Pakistan than just banning the Jamaat-ud Dawa.
As escalation proceeds, the democratically elected government in Islamabad will become less and less relevant, such is the character of war. People on ground looking up at the PAF jets screaming across the sky were supposed to feel secure, but they did not. Their reaction was panic. Telephones rang across Pakistan asking about the welfare of the families in the target area. Significantly, most of the calls came from Karachi, the hub of Pakistans troubled economy, where entrepreneurs make big risky investments on a daily basis. The people may be brave, but the economy anywhere in the world is a coward.
So when the politicians and journalists vow defensive aggression against India, they may be talking about themselves; and only after ignoring the economy. The finance adviser to the prime minister, Mr Shaukat Tareen, having staked his career to the challenge of grabbing the national economy from the brink, must be squirming. No matter what we do, no matter how good our response to the economic crisis, it is foredoomed by war. One can say that even rumours of war are a sure guarantee of the collapse one is trying to avoid. This time it is not only the dollars that will flee Pakistan, those who own the dollars will follow too.
Pakistan has to align itself with the international community as it faces an angry and rejectionist India. It has to consult China, its friend who did not veto the action against Pakistans non-state actors at the UN. Such is the importance of China in the public eye that acting on its advice will not be taken amiss. If Beijing advises more action against non-state actors and opposes the forgiving of sealed charities, its word should be taken seriously. And Pakistan must worry about the receding authority of the democratically elected government as Islamabad faces the media onslaught in favour of war.
Non-imperialist democracies dont go to war, not even defensive ones if they can avoid it. They are notoriously capitulationist, but soft-on-heroics. History always bounces back to praise their instinct of avoiding war. Nationalism looks good in the textbooks. It comes in handy for nation-building and the general requirement of unity within the state, but it is poison for democracy. It is suspect because it induces unity by designating an external enemy with whom the state must always be ready to go to war.
Indias war frenzy is derailing its purpose by forcing a bigger crisis that will take attention away from terrorism. It must listen to sane voices within India asking the election-focused politicians and the TV channels to cool off a bit and think of the inevitable nuclear war they will bring about. Pakistan is sick with internal disorder. You can run dictatorship without order but not democracy. Pakistan must show the world it is serious about getting rid of its disease. *
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
XYON
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sir i am well aware of infamous indian record of their aircrashes and bad maintainance but most of the IAF crashes involve the MIGS which are already very old. i did not come across any IAF flanker crashes, infact only recently have the indian fellows started buying flankers all their previous stuff were migs.
i was not trying to boast of IAF power or so because i know they dont have it,they are bringing a bad name to some of the best fighter planes that russia have produced by faulty maintainance and low level of skill.
my point was that pakistan should never underestimate the quality of the flanker its the best that russia have ever produced.
fighter plane skill depends on the sum of mechanical and human skill if either one is lacking the performance goes down drastically.
Sorry for the mistake! I meant MIG's instead of Flankers!
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FOR every new fighter jet ,pilots must have experience of that jet for operational use ,so in such scenario any new fighter jet handing over to PAF ,will be useless .but getting such jets with which have some experience than it be friutfull
Kharian_Beast
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India poised to attack by 26th Dec
Is also part of the thread title, and no this discussion wasn't fruitless, though your one liner definitely was.
Last edited:
linkinpark
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IAF ready to hit targets in Pak: Barbora
Correspondent
GUWAHATI, Dec 24 Asserting that the Indian Air Force (IAF), in the event of a war against Pakistan, is ready to cause maximum damage to Pakistan, AOC-in-C, Western Air Command, Air Marshal PK Barbora today stated that the neighbouring country is in awe of the IAF armaments.
Barbora, in a startling revelation, stated that the IAF has already prepared a plan of attack and had identified over 5,000 specific targets in Pakistan.
Besides, special groups have been formed to hit specific targets of the enemy.
Intelligence inputs gathered, especially post-Mumbai terror strikes, indicated that the neighbouring country is more concerned about the potent nature of the IAF than that of the Indian Army, in which it enjoys parity in strength, Barbora said during a media interaction programme Pride of North East in the city.
Substantiating his claim, the Air Chief Marshal, who recently served as the chief of the Eastern Command, stated that the IAF boasted the most advanced aircraft in its armour, including the potent SU 30 MKI, which was eight times more effective than a MiG 31.
Pakistan does not have SU 30 MKI, which is considered as the most powerful of the fourth-generation aircraft, Barbora stated, adding, The IAF is intending to induct 200 such aircraft and it currently has 100 of them.
Barbora stated that the IAF, which was the fourth largest airforce in the world, was also the fastest reacting force and in case a war was declared, it would take just a couple of hours for the force to man its security bases.
Though the Western Command chief, who hails from Assam, opined that the IAF was ready for any kind of eventuality, he reiterated that war is still considered as the fourth and the last resort.
The war would be declared only after the Government fails to reap the desired results from the first three available options, which are diplomatic solution, appeal to the international community for finding an amicable solution, and thirdly opting for Track 2 diplomacy, Barbora pointed out.
Asked to react on the Prime Minister Manmohan Singhs remark that war is not on Indias mind, Barbora further stated, The phase of global meltdown that every country, including Pakistan, is experiencing, could be one of the reasons for making such a statement.
Pakistans economy is in turmoil and has experienced the brunt of the economic meltdown in a bigger way than India and once the war is on, the scenario would further deteriorate, the impact of which would also affect India in the long run, Barbora pointed out, adding, Already, the neighbouring country has deployed around one lakh troops in the West to fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda, which would further affect their firepower.
We need to try all options before opting for a war. As there is instability in most of the neighbouring countries, including Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bhutan, war is not the preferred option, Barbora reiterated.
He also favoured building international pressure on Pakistan for creating a better atmosphere.
On the frequent MiG 21 crashes taking place, Barbora refuted the allegation that the aircraft were not safe to fly.
The fact that the IAF has more numbers of such aircraft, the probability of mishaps also increases with it. Under my command (Western) we still have seven squadrons of MiG 21 and I still fly them, Barbora asserted.
He, however, conceded that the MiG 21 aircraft were not easy to fly and the training module needed to be improved.
Correspondent
GUWAHATI, Dec 24 Asserting that the Indian Air Force (IAF), in the event of a war against Pakistan, is ready to cause maximum damage to Pakistan, AOC-in-C, Western Air Command, Air Marshal PK Barbora today stated that the neighbouring country is in awe of the IAF armaments.
Barbora, in a startling revelation, stated that the IAF has already prepared a plan of attack and had identified over 5,000 specific targets in Pakistan.
Besides, special groups have been formed to hit specific targets of the enemy.
Intelligence inputs gathered, especially post-Mumbai terror strikes, indicated that the neighbouring country is more concerned about the potent nature of the IAF than that of the Indian Army, in which it enjoys parity in strength, Barbora said during a media interaction programme Pride of North East in the city.
Substantiating his claim, the Air Chief Marshal, who recently served as the chief of the Eastern Command, stated that the IAF boasted the most advanced aircraft in its armour, including the potent SU 30 MKI, which was eight times more effective than a MiG 31.
Pakistan does not have SU 30 MKI, which is considered as the most powerful of the fourth-generation aircraft, Barbora stated, adding, The IAF is intending to induct 200 such aircraft and it currently has 100 of them.
Barbora stated that the IAF, which was the fourth largest airforce in the world, was also the fastest reacting force and in case a war was declared, it would take just a couple of hours for the force to man its security bases.
Though the Western Command chief, who hails from Assam, opined that the IAF was ready for any kind of eventuality, he reiterated that war is still considered as the fourth and the last resort.
The war would be declared only after the Government fails to reap the desired results from the first three available options, which are diplomatic solution, appeal to the international community for finding an amicable solution, and thirdly opting for Track 2 diplomacy, Barbora pointed out.
Asked to react on the Prime Minister Manmohan Singhs remark that war is not on Indias mind, Barbora further stated, The phase of global meltdown that every country, including Pakistan, is experiencing, could be one of the reasons for making such a statement.
Pakistans economy is in turmoil and has experienced the brunt of the economic meltdown in a bigger way than India and once the war is on, the scenario would further deteriorate, the impact of which would also affect India in the long run, Barbora pointed out, adding, Already, the neighbouring country has deployed around one lakh troops in the West to fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda, which would further affect their firepower.
We need to try all options before opting for a war. As there is instability in most of the neighbouring countries, including Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bhutan, war is not the preferred option, Barbora reiterated.
He also favoured building international pressure on Pakistan for creating a better atmosphere.
On the frequent MiG 21 crashes taking place, Barbora refuted the allegation that the aircraft were not safe to fly.
The fact that the IAF has more numbers of such aircraft, the probability of mishaps also increases with it. Under my command (Western) we still have seven squadrons of MiG 21 and I still fly them, Barbora asserted.
He, however, conceded that the MiG 21 aircraft were not easy to fly and the training module needed to be improved.
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