Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

[The Raven]

Why would you want to replace the F-16? Out of all the aircraft you have,why the F-16? You have F-7s and Mirage III and V that you could retire

It's not about replacing the F-16, but rather the options that the PAF faces in terms of making up the numbers when the F-7s and Mirages are eventually retired. This all depends on whether the PAF can (or should) acquire more Vipers (it has historically aimed for a fleet of over 100), or whether it should augment the 'medium eight' class of its Viper fleet with a more accessible and less risky type, and the only real option for the PAF is the J-10CE. The Vipers will of course be retired at some point, especially when whatever emerges from project Azm, and the J-10CE could act as the transition platform from between the Viper fleet drawing down, to expanding the fifth gen fighter in numbers.

I agree. I'd add that the J-10CE would also be the start of the PAF's 'next generation' fleet. AZM/NGFA is still a loose variable, a lot of uncertainties (besides flowery words from the PAF). However, the J-10CE is real and tangible -- if past PAF procurement habits are anything to go by, the PAF could ultimately commit to 90+ units. IMO, I'd weigh more on additional J-10CEs until we see tangible progress towards AZM.

Especially if the PAF adopts a similar model as the JF-17, using a baseline Chinese design and using it as a staging platform for developing 'next gen' technology capability in-house. Much of the project Azm initiatives and aviation city are only possible because of the capabilities developed from the JF-17 programme.

 

[MisterSyed]

This all depends on whether the PAF can (or should) acquire more Vipers (it has historically aimed for a fleet of over 100)

This Claim Seems Tight , Considering out Strained Relations as of This Moment.. Even our 12 AH-1z Helicopters are Stored due Strained Relations...

 

[The Raven]

This Claim Seems Tight , Considering out Strained Relations as of This Moment.. Even our 12 AH-1z Helicopters are Stored due Strained Relations...

Exactly, new Viper aiframes are extremely unlikely, not unless Pakistan wants to pay the full retail price, which it doesn't, and there's no more assistance from the US. Either pay up in full if you want the Zulus and Vipers, or go elsewhere.

 

[Osman Devlat]

Apart from Air Force modernization Pakistan really needs to focus on air defences . Pakistan need's better and stronger air defence systems. Pakistan should look at Algeria. It has one of the strongest air defence system in the world. Very few people actually know this. It's air defence's alone could "kill" a medium sized air force. Just look at some of the SAM's they have. But again every country has different military doctrine.

Long range:
S-400
S-300PMU/PMU-1/PMU-2
S-300V/VM
HQ-9
S-200

Medium range:
S-125
Pantsir S1
BUK
KUB

Short range:
9K31 Strela-1
9K33 OSA
Tor

This video explains very well why SAM's can be so crucial in a war. Would recommend to watch it.

Historically speaking the Algerians understand well, when the wave of colonization, came and when they left they know very well how to keep them at bay. Also, Algeria is the place where your beloved Captain Jack Sparrow was based (Hint: Privateer in the Ottoman Navy, Granted Rights of a Naval Commander). Also, Yes, besides having the Latest and Greatest Jets, Guys we also need a Kick *** Air defence System, let's say that we can even get the F-35 (which we will never get, but hypothetically), S-400 which India sooner or later will get can pose a serious threat, Bro Air Defence System are are also necessary.

But not to say that J-10's are a bad Idea, but that since we have scare resources, we should consider saving some money, and spending as much as we can on building in house Air Defence Systems, The Era of American-Pakistani Alliance has just ended, as America Leaves Afghanistan (not that it was not a great ally before) but now since in the American Plan CPEC and other Economical Domination Patterns of China are underway, Pakistani Millitary Elite understand, and is now in Survival Mode, we have chosen a side, and that is China. Each one of our policy differs with the US, the only thing holding this relation together, even if fake and just for shows was Afghanistan and that has been essentially ended, all be it, its an economic one. One which have already been losing for the past 60 Years.

Either we can learn from Turkey and stay neutral like in WW2, and chose sides at the end, or we can go ahead and take the gamble, either way as the global conflict goes, and shapes we must always be ready to face all out war with India and the QUAD if we chose sides.

 

[BON PLAN]

the sole alternatives for Pakistan are Chinese : J10C and maybe later the FC31... or Russian SU35 or Mig35.
The political environment is not clear enough to imagine a west fighter sell. And there is also the price difference.

J10C seems impressive, but as all the chinese product it is not war proven.

 

[MisterSyed]

Exactly, new Viper aiframes are extremely unlikely, not unless Pakistan wants to pay the full retail price, which it doesn't, and there's no more assistance from the US. Either pay up in full if you want the Zulus and Vipers, or go elsewhere.

What do you think? PAF's Top Contender for Another Aircraft? J10? , 2nd Hand F-16s?..

 

[The Raven]

the sole alternatives for Pakistan are Chinese : J10C and maybe later the FC31... or Russian SU35 or Mig35.
The political environment is not clear enough to imagine a west fighter sell. And there is also the price difference.

J10C seems impressive, but as all the chinese product it is not war proven.

On your comment about the Viper and 'Agile Falcon', that was actually adopted by the Japanese as the Mitsubishi F-2, and for their requirements has actually been quite good.

 

[MH.Yang]

You believes that the USA is trying to use India to deal with China, and even Indians think so.
But the I believe that the USA wants to use China to control India and maintain its interests in the Indian Ocean through India.
In fact, India is not very useful to the US strategy of containing China. China understands this fact, and so does the USA.
The Himalayas limit the scale of the conflict between China and India. And India is not interested in dying for the USA. They hope to gain benefits by pretending, but they are not willing to pay the price.
The USA is now in the stage of strategic contraction, and it is withdrawing its military forces around the world.
Although Iran is more hostile to the USA, the USA has transferred some warships of the 5th Fleet to East Asia. The Kachin democratic army of Myanmar, which has been invested by the USA for many years, is controlled by the Burmese government now.
Even the USA abandoned Afghanistan.
So the USA needs an Indian Ocean ally, just like Israel, an ally in the Middle East.
The USA will control India by controlling India's right-wing people's party, just like Israel's right-wing Likud group, and then control South Asia by controlling India.

 

[MisterSyed]

The USA will control India by controlling India's right-wing people's party, just like Israel's right-wing Likud group, and then control South Asia by controlling India.

Strong Words , Indians Cant Even Control their Own Missiles which Sent Their own Helicopters Spiraling out of the Sky.

 

[The Raven]

What do you think? PAF's Top Contender for Another Aircraft? J10? , 2nd Hand F-16s?..

It depends on whether the PAF can sustain the Viper fleet with capability upgrades to keep it relevant, such as the V upgrade, and can acquire a sizeable number of surplus Viper airframes (IMO, 30-45). If the PAF believes it can extract the required capability from investing in further lifecycle development of the Viper, and has access to upgrades, weapons, and the required number of airframes, then it might go for that option. But those are big 'ifs' at the moment, and in the current environment seems unlikely. In the absence of augmenting the Viper fleet, it has no other option but to develop similar capability and numbers by adopting the J-10CE.

 

[MisterSyed]

In the absence of augmenting the Viper fleet, it has no other option but to develop similar capability and numbers by adopting the J-10CE

I really hope so , It has been all Butterflies with Jf-17 but we cant really depend on one Aircraft to Carry us , need more of depth.

 

[jupiter2007]

Topic heading is incorrect, Pakistan won’t replacing F-16s until 2035, by then J-35 and Turkish fighter should be going into serial production.
Current Top priority is to replace F-7s and older Mirage planes with JF-17 and either with New or used F-16s or another platform. Since our relationship with Uncle Sam is declining and our chance of getting F-16s is diminishing, we have to find the alternative. J-10C is the only logical option due to maintenance, operational cost and reliability of the platform.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

How much difference is there between the Pakistani F-16s and possible Pakistani J-10s?

I am assuming F-16 pilots won't need more than 3-years to fully familiarise themselves with the J-10s.

If Pakistani pilots managed to master the F-16s in a very short time (which initially looked like alien tech to the first PAF pilots), it should take less for transitioning from F-16s to J-10s.

 

[araz]

Why would you want to replace the F-16? Out of all the aircraft you have,why the F-16? You have F-7s and Mirage III and V that you could retire

No one is replacing the 16s which will serve out the remainder of their life in PAF as long as there is no shortage of spares. What is being said is the role of the 16s will need to be shared out and we need another foghter for that( I personally think we can do with just block 3 and the 16s). However in case of sanctions we could land ourselves in a pickle so J10s would provide us some security in that regards. It would also allow us to replace quite a few other planes like the PGs, M3 and 5s which are not upgraded which has been alluded to. I will maintain that PAF will retain a couple of squadron of ROSE upgraded Mirages till late 20s for their niche ground attack role.
A

 

[messiach]

We are not replacing french mirage engines but AESA would be cost effective solution. They would be an excellent mate with block 3.

But Mirage equipped with AESA and enhanced engine is quite similar to Block-3 with delta wings. We recognize the need for delta wings, why not replace the aging Mirage airframes with something that has a lot of design and production line commonality with our existing platform? That sounds like the logical thing to do. You are saying the two planes will have similar capability, whereas the delta wings will have very different aerodynamic characteristics. And if you equip it with a different avionics package as well, you will get different result.