Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

[Nomad40]

I hope you did not get me wrong and it was in no way meant as an offence and I truly wish I would know what you know. Indeed I trust you, but just - as you surely know my for some surely nasty habit of always wanting proof or an image - since no proof is given I prefer to wait before I open the bottle of Champagne, and surely I will do, when the first image of a J-10C in PAF-colours is revealed!

That nasty habit is common amongst the realist.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Yep, as I've stated previously, the days of close US/Pak military cooperation are slowly drawing to a close. The Viper will be the last piece of major defence equipment Pakistan will purchase from the US, let alone other Western sources. Given the current situation in Afghanistan, there's no hope in hell any more Vipers are coming to the PAF. In my view, there has been a tacit agreement between the US and Pakistan of the Taliban either regaining control again, or some form of coalition government. In any case, the Pak military would prefer influence in Afghanistan (to negate indian and iranian presence) at the expense of any further Vipers.

But what is more pertinent is that it also implies no more attendance of the PAF at Red Flag exercises, or any other joint US-PAK military engagement, when the PAF transitions to an all Eastern/In-house airforce. The success of the PAF has in large part been due to the influence of US training, tactics, and doctrine, and the PAF wouldn't be what it is today if it were not for the influence of the US. The PAF will soon lose that exposure to US influence and largely have to adapt Chinese origin equipment to its own doctrine from now on...good luck with that.

As for the QUAD...well, clearly the US hasn't learnt anything itself over the past 30 years

It works both ways maray bhai
When the u.s govt. Cut out Pak military from all training programs and associated courses. Pentagon was very unhappy with the decision as it knew that such a decision would mean total loss of influence due to the simple fact that Pakistan has other options.
So realizing their mistake they very quietly resumed the training program and all the associated courses. But the damage had already been done as the void left by the u.s was filled by other powers and the powers that be in the u.s realise this.
So u.s will continue to engage the Pak military at the very least n continue providing n selling hardware as it realizes fully that gone r the days when it was the only one calling the shots.

 

[The Raven]

It works both ways maray bhai
When the u.s govt. Cut out Pak military from all training programs and associated courses. Pentagon was very unhappy with the decision as it knew that such a decision would mean total loss of influence due to the simple fact that Pakistan has other options.
So realizing their mistake they very quietly resumed the training program and all the associated courses. But the damage had already been done as the void left by the u.s was filled by other powers and the powers that be in the u.s realise this.
So u.s will continue to engage the Pak military at the very least n continue providing n selling hardware as it realizes fully that gone r the days when it was the only one calling the shots.

If the US realises it has lost its influence on Pak because Pak had other options, why would it see the need to leverage influence through military sales? Furthermore, exactly what has the US gained by influencing Pak though military sales? Nothing. It's lost in Afghanistan because of Pak policy. There's very little strategic gain to be had from Pak from the point of view of rh US, it's simply utilised what little it could due to Afghanistan and then turned its back on Pak, as it did in the 80s.

 

[PakFactor]

I think Pakistan needs to understand the writing on the wall. It's military relationship with the US is over (despite some small sales here and there, worthy of symbolic nature). The QUAD is the next world order and India after the US has a center seat in this new world order. India is also the only country from the QUAD that connects with China through land (keeping a long term view of a potential conflict).

I am more than positive that the first thing India would've asked the US before turning QUAD an official alliance, would be to stop supplying weapons to Pakistan as they are used against India and this situation negates the entire concept of being an ally / partner of the US to begin with.

Current administration's cold shoulder is not a hidden story either. Pakistan needs a strong economy and to diversify it's defense partners. The West would be tough to buy advanced offensive weapons from. India has built a serious place in world affairs. And no, I am not an Indian by any chance. Just writing the reality here.

Well none in Pakistan are surprised to be very blunt. We had expected this from Day 1 of WoT we were just counting down the days to when this relationship would stop and quite honestly this relationship never matured through its infancy. The mistake Liaqat Ali Khan did was turn the other cheek to a Russian invitation and fly to US like a blistering moron. That blunder alone cost us dearly, and Indians benefited, but US was fork tongued as the natives correctly assessed about Americans.

Hopefully we don’t have to open this chapter again and can put the nail of the coffin between US-Pak Relations. As their is no strategic benefit between both nations.

 

[Reichmarshal]

If the US realises it has lost its influence on Pak because Pak had other options, why would it see the need to leverage influence through military sales? Furthermore, exactly what has the US gained by influencing Pak though military sales? Nothing. It's lost in Afghanistan because of Pak policy. There's very little strategic gain to be had from Pak from the point of view of rh US, it's simply utilised what little it could due to Afghanistan and then turned its back on Pak, as it did in the 80s.

State craft n its extention foreign policy is not a zero sum game.
U.s has four to five power centers with very different out look and competing interests on foreign matters.
Pakistan n u.s have always had very cordial relations amongst both the militaries with some of our officers being graduates of west point n some of the u.s officer graduates of staff college quetta n NDU.
The problem arises from the fact that u.s policy on South Asia has a huge Indian influence n hence many of the u.s actions are are carried out with a visible India centric nature. This is all due to a very strong isreali lobby at the state dept. Who have nurtured the Indian lobby and played a major role in forming the india centric south Asia policy along with bringing india to the fore.
Having said all that I M of the opinion Pak n u.s reached a settlement by which the u.s will pay its " pond of flesh " visa vie afg.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Well none in Pakistan are surprised to be very blunt. We had expected this from Day 1 of WoT we were just counting down the days to when this relationship would stop and quite honestly this relationship never matured through its infancy. The mistake Liaqat Ali Khan did was turn the other cheek to a Russian invitation and fly to US like a blistering moron. That blunder alone cost us dearly, and Indians benefited, but US was fork tongued as the natives correctly assessed about Americans.

Hopefully we don’t have to open this chapter again and can put the nail of the coffin between US-Pak Relations. As their is no strategic benefit between both nations.

My post was simply an analysis of the situation. I'm confused reading the above post as it goes from WOT to some history (I think), to Russian invasion, to India and to the "natives".....it's confusing. Nevertheless, if there is an issue with my analysis, I'm standing by to discuss.

Lastly and to be honest, if I was Pakistan, I'd focus on (1) Her Economy and (2) In getting better leaders or better diplomats. You can't discard the largest economy of the world who actually benefits you a lot (read about your exports to the US) while with your all Honey and Mountain friend China, the trade is only in their favor and your loss. Just my two cents. Better foreign policy and diplomats learn to find common grounds to work with.

 

[The Raven]

Actions

My post was simply an analysis of the situation. I'm confused reading the above post as it goes from WOT to some history (I think), to Russian invasion, to India and to the "natives".....it's confusing. Nevertheless, if there is an issue with my analysis, I'm standing by to discuss.

Lastly and to be honest, if I was Pakistan, I'd focus on (1) Her Economy and (2) In getting better leaders or better diplomats. You can't discard the largest economy of the world who actually benefits you a lot (read about your exports to the US) while with your all Honey and Mountain friend China, the trade is only in their favor and your loss. Just my two cents. Better foreign policy and diplomats learn to find common grounds to work with.

The reason you find it confusing is because you clearly don't understand the Pakistani mentality...most people struggle to understand it.

State craft n its extention foreign policy is not a zero sum game.
U.s has four to five power centers with very different out look and competing interests on foreign matters.
Pakistan n u.s have always had very cordial relations amongst both the militaries with some of our officers being graduates of west point n some of the u.s officer graduates of staff college quetta n NDU.
The problem arises from the fact that u.s policy on South Asia has a huge Indian influence n hence many of the u.s actions are are carried out with a visible India centric nature. This is all due to a very strong isreali lobby at the state dept. Who have nurtured the Indian lobby and played a major role in forming the india centric south Asia policy along with bringing india to the fore.
Having said all that I M of the opinion Pak n u.s reached a settlement by which the u.s will pay its " pond of flesh " visa vie afg.

Should have realised Israel would eventually get drawn in and blamed...you clearly want the last word...go for it.

 

[DJ_Viper]

State craft n its extention foreign policy is not a zero sum game.
U.s has four to five power centers with very different out look and competing interests on foreign matters.
Pakistan n u.s have always had very cordial relations amongst both the militaries with some of our officers being graduates of west point n some of the u.s officer graduates of staff college quetta n NDU.
The problem arises from the fact that u.s policy on South Asia has a huge Indian influence n hence many of the u.s actions are are carried out with a visible India centric nature. This is all due to a very strong isreali lobby at the state dept. Who have nurtured the Indian lobby and played a major role in forming the india centric south Asia policy along with bringing india to the fore.
Having said all that I M of the opinion Pak n u.s reached a settlement by which the u.s will pay its " pond of flesh " visa vie afg.

You can't control India or her foreign policy, or Israel's pull in the US. That's a very unfair comparison. Pakistan in it's current state can't compete with India or Israel's economies or militaries. Having a strong military is not what runs the world. Military relationships can only go so far and will always remain at that level, and won't connect the people.

You have to create your own brand instead of always comparing with these two nations as it's a wrong comparison, and also the source of the issue here. You need to identify your own issues and fix them.

There is a serious lack of a working economy, a real democratic, political and foreign policy based system. A growing economy, a working political and foreign policy system, overtime, will start to put India and Pakistan in two different categories, independent of each other with economic incentives.

Can someone outline the J-10C purchase details beyond just the news? What's included in the package?

 

[The Raven]

You can't control India or her foreign policy, or Israel's pull in the US. That's a very unfair comparison. Pakistan in it's current state can't compete with India or Israel's economies or militaries. Having a strong military is not what runs the world. Military relationships can only go so far and will always remain at that level, and won't connect the people.

You have to create your own brand instead of always comparing with these two nations as it's a wrong comparison, and also the source of the issue here. You need to identify your own issues and fix them.

There is a serious lack of a working economy, a real democratic, political and foreign policy based system. A growing economy, a working political and foreign policy system, overtime, will start to put India and Pakistan in two different categories, independent of each other with economic incentives.

Can someone outline the J-10C purchase details beyond just the news? What's included in the package?

Sadly, this isn't the way Pakistanis think.

 

[The Eagle]

You can't control India or her foreign policy, or Israel's pull in the US. That's a very unfair comparison. Pakistan in it's current state can't compete with India or Israel's economies or militaries. Having a strong military is not what runs the world. Military relationships can only go so far and will always remain at that level, and won't connect the people.

You have to create your own brand instead of always comparing with these two nations as it's a wrong comparison, and also the source of the issue here. You need to identify your own issues and fix them.

There is a serious lack of a working economy, a real democratic, political and foreign policy based system. A growing economy, a working political and foreign policy system, overtime, will start to put India and Pakistan in two different categories, independent of each other with economic incentives.

Can someone outline the J-10C purchase details beyond just the news? What's included in the package?

Can we start sharing correct flag of current location? Thanks in advance.

 

[The Eagle]

Let me guess

Nah.... You have no idea.
But will keep it for the courtesy.

 

[python-000]

 

[mdmm]

After 50 days long discussion by all forum members,
What is end result Conclusion of this topic,
"" Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s do , Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?..
Thread starterZarvan

 

[DJ_Viper]

After 50 days long discussion by all forum members,
What is end result Conclusion of this topic,
"" Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s do , Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?..
Thread starterZarvan

Yes! Please upgrade! Thank you

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Get atleast 40 so i case we need to completely retire the F16 it can be done easily