"Replacements for deficient Su-30 MKI and MiG-29 are being processed."

[SuvarnaTeja]

From which part?

Southern Part. I speak South Indian.

 

[Yasser76]

It all depends on leadership and how they percolate values downstream. They do have terrific fliers and leadership potential but rumors are that political influence and institutional culture interference is having an impact. Their procurement process was hobbled by bureaucracy and mismanagement of projects(procurement are projects too).
Regardless of the spit shined face the Indian fanboys present here by making tall claims or copy pasting exaggerated links it is a huge mess to fix and really needs some diligent and empowered leadership to create the right impact. In some ways they do mirror the Russians in the sense they have great equipment but training standards aren’t being enforced or coordination is all over the place.

So, yes - what is helping the PAF is the IAF’s own issues. If they overcome it they will wax the floor with the PAF after day 2 of an air war.

Let’s not forget, just be sheer size, momentum and a superpower(some Indian had an orgasm) of a technology growth base in the private sector they are poised(if not focused or prepared) to start competing with China on certain aspects.

That isn’t to take away from the PAF’s own issues and personal fiefdoms delaying or sabotaging projects but I will say the PAF is ever so slightly ahead of the team/training curve vs the IAF…. For now

Totally agree. What certainly is not helping cost/efficiency wise is the sheer number of types in IAF.

In 3 years from now PAF will probably comprise just of JF-17s/J-10Cs/F-16s.

IAF will be LCA/Jaguar/MIG-29/MIrage 2000/Rafale/SU-30/MIG-21. This fact in itself is insane considering the different systems, weapons, ground equipment, training for each type. Absolutely insane....

 

[IblinI]

have been going through the thread, the only thing that I see from Indian members is "western, western, western", which says a lot about their mentality.

 

[Yasser76]

have been going through the thread, the only thing that I see from Indian members is "western, western, western", which says a lot about their mentality.

Yup, what is really interesting now is that Indians seem to see Western equipment as their saviour against increasingly sophisticated Chinese and Pakistani equipment. After all these years

No front line Arjun tank units
only 1.5 LCA squadrons of IOC Tejas
No homegrown UCAV in service
INSAS rifle failed

It seems the only thing that may try and counter balance the massive Chinese and Pakistani build up is a huge influx of Western systems into Indian forces but this will cause problems for several reasons

1) Sheer cost, India needs equipment in quantity. The small Rafale buy and the cancellation of the 30 Predators from US due to cost shows that it simply cannot afford to requip its forces totally with Western stuff.
2) Lack of supply and long lead times. Now most of the west is massively requipping due to Russia large domestic orders will come first, even Rafales now have backlog of 160 plus planes, so any orders India makes will take much longer or require an Indian based factory (which will also take many years to build)
3) With India's close relations with Russia and S-400 buy I do not expect frontline equipment to be offered, no F-35s for sure. India will be confined to 4.5th Gen.
4) Of course the threat of sanctions is always there too, with every JF-17/J-10C delivery Pakistan loosens the sanctions threat from the West, this will only increase for India. If US wanted it could stop IN P-8s and IAF Apaches flying in a matter of months, you can apply the same to any F-18/F-15 buy.
5) As we saw integrating various equipment from various sources has proven to be a problem for India already, be it Israeli bombs on French planes missing their targets or Israeli SAMs shooting down Russian choppers. Integrating a US fighter into a Israeli/Indian/Russian SAM/Radar network will be a headache (and maybe not even possible)

All in all a tough situation.

 

[JX-1]

Those copied Js are not better than Russian SUes.

Chinese planes are far superior to Russian junk. China flat out refused to buy the SU-35 because it's inferior to domestic aircraft. The J-16D is probably the best 4.5th gen in the world.

 

[IblinI]

Chinese planes are far superior to Russian junk. China flat out refused to buy the SU-35 because it's inferior to domestic aircraft. The J-16D is probably the best 4.5th gen in the world.

Lets not go down to their level.
No more dick measuring, no more GAME CHANGER, breaking news, bis items.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Straight from the horses (IAF ACM) mouth. Looks like major issues with SU-30 and MIG-29 fleets where some will start to be retired. This on top of the MIG-21 and Jaguar retirements is really serious for the IAF. 5 years from now a PAF bigger then the IAF!?

“IAF Views Cyber Operations as an Integral Part of all Military Operations. We are Continuously Working to Upgrade these Capabilities at all times.”

In an exclusive interview to <strong>Jayant Baranwal</strong>, Editor-in-Chief, <strong><em>SP’s Aviation</em>, Air Chief Marshal V.R. Chaudhari</strong>, Chief of the Air Staff...

www.sps-aviation.com

Did you read the article properly?

Su 30 mki is not going anywhere before 2040.

 

[Yasser76]

Did you read the article properly?

Su 30 mki is not going anywhere before 2040.

Can you read, did you read the bit about "deficient SU-30s", some of them obviously have issues, as the 55% servicability rate hinted at.Obviously some will be kept, but simply put it is hard to fathom how deep the rot is in teh SU-30 fleet, and of course any major OEM supported upgrade now out the window thanks for Ukraine war.

Best you start reading more.

 

[-=virus=-]

have been going through the thread, the only thing that I see from Indian members is "western, western, western", which says a lot about their mentality.

Up until Syria and couple of weeks ago, it was only western equipment (fighters specifically), that were "battle tested/proven". That's a big selling point. F 15, F a18s.. Rafales, all got a good chunk of that action, never shot down iirc. Just that poor Jordanian guy who got burnt alive and his F-16. The Russians had suffered losses in Syria, but then they were doing a lot more close air and transport and other stuff than just bomb runs.

Until India can catch up to all the bigger players in being properly juche, it is forced/has no choice but to buy the best of whatever is made available from all sources. This is also a testament to India's diplomatic prowess, soft power, as well as business acumen. As an example, the US were desperate to sell the F 35 but India bought a few regiments worth of the S-400 anyway, and didn't get sanctioned.

best to make your own kebabs, but until you can.. order tasty ones from the market. - ancient Arabic saying

or

I, against my brothers. I and my brothers against my cousins. I and my brothers and my cousins against the world.- another Arabic saying.

or

If your craftsmen can not yet craft the best chariots, nor forge the best weapons, buy from both Sam and Vlad - SunChu

 

[Windjammer]

A former PAF ACM once said, with all different systems and gadgets installed into the SU-30 by the IAF, either it will become a brilliant weapon system or ready for the scrap yard.
When you have over 250 SU-30s at your disposal yet your PM is still crying about a few dozen Rafales, it all becomes too obvious. Other than that, it was often claimed that SU-30 is an overkill for Pakistan and it's meant for China as the MiG-29 is sufficient to take care of entire PAF.... Guess what, when the test came, no MiG-29 was visible in sight.

 

[K_Bin_W]

A former PAF ACM once said, with all different systems and gadgets installed into the SU-30 by the IAF, either it will become a brilliant weapon system or ready for the scrap yard.
When you have over 250 SU-30s at your disposal yet your PM is still crying about a few dozen Rafales, it all becomes too obvious. Other than that, it was often claimed that SU-30 is an overkill for Pakistan and it's meant for China as the MiG-29 is sufficient to take care of entire PAF.... Guess what, when the test came, no MiG-29 was visible in sight.

I think they have 270 SU30s, the rabtor (Raptor for normal people) of the east, the Mini AWACS, and one of the best missile dodgers

 

[sal29]

All people criticizing Soviet Junks should also realise one important thing, no western countries (except France) especially America would not have sold us any advance military equipments until mid 2000s. And also how weak our economy was at that time we couldn't have afford them anyways even if offered. We had no choice back in the day. The only way to compete against Pakistan armed with advance American weapons was to buy Soviet machines. The lesson learnt during 65 war where we had nothing that could stand up against PAF F104 Starfighters.

Calling Russian/Soviet planes junk is quite hypocritical don't you think. The problem with IAF is not the birds but the man flying that bird. You don't have the kind of training and tactics PAF exercise for. We have F7PG which is also derived from Soviet era Mig-21 and we have never said that they are junk. The pilots that fly them know of bird's capability and the tactics required to use them effectively where as in case of IAF there is no cohesion no well thought out planning. I mean Rafael is not goose which lays the golden egg every time. In the end it is the tactics that matter not the bird. As long as IAF blames the bird it will still be a sub par air force not capable of the big leagues.

 

[Yasser76]

Calling Russian/Soviet planes junk is quite hypocritical don't you think. The problem with IAF is not the birds but the man flying that bird. You don't have the kind of training and tactics PAF exercise for. We have F7PG which is also derived from Soviet era Mig-21 and we have never said that they are junk. The pilots that fly them know of bird's capability and the tactics required to use them effectively where as in case of IAF there is no cohesion no well thought out planning. I mean Rafael is not goose which lays the golden egg every time. In the end it is the tactics that matter not the bird. As long as IAF blames the bird it will still be a sub par air force not capable of the big leagues.

You are right about the man and tactics being the most important, but F-7P (Maybe even PG) is certainly considered the least important asset in PAF as of now. There is a good reason it was not involved in Swift Retort and a good reason that (despite being much younger) they are being replaced before the older Mirages.

 

[sal29]

You are right about the man and tactics being the most important, but F-7P (Maybe even PG) is certainly considered the least important asset in PAF as of now. There is a good reason it was not involved in Swift Retort and a good reason that (despite being much younger) they are being replaced before the older Mirages.

Hence me mentioning that the pilots know the capabilities of the airplanes and the tactics they used are based on that. The were not actively used in operation swift retorts strike package or the aerial cover package that was deployed but that doesn't mean they were not used at all during state of high tensions after 27th Feb.

 

[LeGenD]

Chinese planes are far superior to Russian junk. China flat out refused to buy the SU-35 because it's inferior to domestic aircraft. The J-16D is probably the best 4.5th gen in the world.

China have definitely surpassed Russia in aeronautics; domestically produced J-20 variants are self-explanatory in this respect.

But credit should be given where due: China could source and learn much from Russian designs; both J-11 and J-16 variants feature Russian chassis with Chinese avionics and amendments. China also had the opportunity to study Israeli Lavi prototype and conceptualized J-10A.

As for top-of-the-line 4.5th gen options, F-15EX enters the chat...