Renaissance of Bengali Hindu and the Subversion"

[eastwatch]

Tagore won Nobel for English literature, not Bengali literature (surprise! surprise!).

The Nobel Prize in Literature 1913 was awarded to Rabindranath Tagore "because of his profoundly sensitive, fresh and beautiful verse, by which, with consummate skill, he has made his poetic thought, expressed in his own English words, a part of the literature of the West".

Clicky​

It was his translation of Gitanjali, from Bengali to English, that got him the award.

PS: Unfortunately I have lost Suniti Kumar Chatterji's 'Origin and Development of the Bengali Language'.

It was certainly the Gitanjali that brought a Nobel Prize to Tagore. But, it was translated from Bangla to English to make the Nobel Committee understand the substance. It was a literary award and Tagore was definitely not awarded the Prize for his contribution to English literature.

 

[toxic_pus]

Doesn't really matter to us why he got the award. Bangalis love him for his contribution to our sacred language, not because he got the Nobel Prize. We should have created our own award program to officially recognize our nation's literary and artistic talents.

Doesn't matter to any Bengali why Tagore got Nobel. That dude made a factual error. I pointed that out. It is as simple as that.

 

[toxic_pus]

It was certainly the Gitanjali that brought a Nobel Prize to Tagore. But, it was translated from Bangla to English to make the Nobel Committee understand the substance. It was a literary award and Tagore was definitely not awarded the Prize for his contribution to English literature.

I am going to quote the relevant part of the citation by Nobel Committee:

'because of his profoundly sensitive, fresh and beautiful verse, by which, with consummate skill, he has made his poetic thought, expressed in his own English words, a part of the literature of the West'

Btw, he didn't translate Gitanjali for the Nobel Committee.

 

[Al-zakir]

I hope you read what is Musalmani Bangla and why the distinction was brought in. But obviously, you would have failed to observe the subtlety since you apparently have that gulam[/I] mentality and feel that all that the superior race states is Divine message!

You are right about one thing and that is, I am defiantly Ghulam-e-Mustofa and Abed Allah.

 

[eastwatch]

I can expect better post from you. Allthough I disagree with you on many issues but always respect your knowlege when comes to history, especially Muslim parts.

Why don't you talk about Musalmani Bangla that once spoken by our forefather and how much diffrent it was from the Tagorized Bangla that we speak now in Bangladesh. Do you not think that if we adop Arabic/Persian script then it will be easy to restore our forefather languge and Bangaldesh would be a diffrent entity from West Bengal.

Sorry for the blunt post. But, plese note that Musalmani Bangla was not only spoken by our Musalman forefathers, but was also spoken by the Hindus as well. It was not created by intention by the muslims. Rather, it was resulted from the mix up of words and expressions that were spoken by the local Hindu Bangalis and the foreign immigrant Muslims who had become permanent residents of Bengal.

It was same with Urdu. The languages brought into Hindustan by the muslims who immigrated to the north-west India were mixed up with the local languages spoken by the native Hindustanis. The only thing that differs is that Urdu had accepted Arabic script, but Bangla did not do so although there were some efforts to do so in the past in the middle age.

People do not usually get any clue about the foreign immigrant muslims because they are not aware of the influx of foreign muslims throughout Hindustan including Bengal when there was muslim rule since 1192 AD. It is obvious that since there were no TVs and radios in those days, there were certainly influx of impoverished muslims from all those desert countries to a rich and fertile Hindustan.

People from west of Hindustan brought their language with them. This is the reason why the State lanuage of entire Hindustan was Persian. Persian continued to be the official language until 1832, when suddenly the Britishers replaced it with English.

Since Persian was the official language, therefore, both Hindus and Muslims had to learn it. This is the reason why Hindus had occupied most of the civil service positions in the govt. This language was spoken, studied and written by all. This had influnced the local spoken Bengali language so that there are thousands of foreign words still to be found in Bengali. Only we are not aware of it.

Also, since thousands of north Indian muslims had domiciled in Bengal during the time of Akber, Bengali was also influenced also by the north Indian languages including Urdu and Hindi.

So, this language that I have described above is known as Musalmani Bangla. It is still in existence. There were toomany efforts to get rid of Persian, Turkic and arabic words from Bangla, but not with full success. Bangla will keep on retaining thousands of these words.

Think of Lajja against Sharam
Prem Piyar/Muhabbat
Kahini Kahani
Kothabarta Baatchit
-------- Jaruri
-------- Talab
Shapna Khoab
Proshno sawal
Uttor Jawab
Akash Aasman
Jol Pani
Pishi Fupu
Mashi Khala
Maa Amma/Ammi
Shrobon kora Shona
Shakkhat kora Dekha kora
Kokkho Ghar
Jhar Tufan

So, there are still thousands of so-called foreign or Musalmani words in Bangla like above, but we are not aware of it. These words cannot be discarded although some Hindu and AL elites are trying to do this job. In the beginning of 19th century Hindu elites introduced many thousands of words derived from Sanskrit, and also tried to expel musalmani words. But, were not successful. Think of Bankim Chandra. But, their efforts did not also bring about 100% Sanskritization of Bangla. Some of the these borrowed words from Sanskrit remained in the language, but some are not used.

Think of Chandra, Ratri and Dibosh. But, people will naturally say Chand, Rat and Din in lieu of these words without ever thinking. There are many thousands words like those above. The 1st three were Sanskritized and the latter 3 are the common words derived from Urdu.

However, all of us must admit that the introduction of Sanskrit words in broken form has generally enriched Bangla. There are many expressions that are needed to compose a Bengali poetry or an essay which cannot be done without the help of all kinds of borrowed words that also include Sanskrit.

Note, that muslim immigrants have become the natives of this land whatever may have been their roots in the past. Persian is not any more a language in any part of Bengal. As, we are not speakers of Persian or Arabic any more, therefore, there is no way that these two languages will put any new influence to Bangla.

Influence of Sanskrit or any other nearby languges always enrich the language. Think of English. When the French people migrated to England after the invasion from Normandy by Willium the Conquerer, they also took their language with them. This is the reason why there are so many French sounding words in English. English also took many words from Hindustani languages including Bangla.

There is no shame in taking foreign words. There is no religion affixed to a language. If the people of England suddenly become muslim, do you expect they will discard English and will speak in Arabic? So, why do people try to find out a relationship between religion and language?

Since we cannot intentionally discard all the words derived from sanskrit, it is wise for us to know how to live with it, albeit, with also not discarding the foreign words that were brought and introduced into Bangla by the immigrant Muslims in the past.

 

[LaBong]

^You are confusing between Paakrit cognate of Tatsama Sanskrit and Persian loan words. Chand, Raat, Din all are Tadbhaba Paakrit word. Yeah there are many loan words in Bengali from Persian, French, English etc which enriched the language. A stagnated language is dead language.

 

[eastwatch]

^You are confusing between Paakrit cognate of Tatsama Sanskrit and Persian loan words. Chand, Raat, Din all are Tadbhaba Paakrit word. Yeah there are many loan words in Bengali from Persian, French, English etc which enriched the language. A stagnated language is dead language.

No, the influence of Persian, Arabic and Turkic from central asia cannot be compared with a few loan words from English or french. The former group constitutes the core of Bengali, whereas English words were just superficially imposed at the outer periphery of the language. The former group constitutes many thousand words, and the latter can be counted in the four fingers. Take out the west asian and north Indian words, even the skeleton of Bengali will evaporate. But, this cannot be said of european words, we can go without these.

Here, I am talking about Bangla when it was formed in the historical times when the foreign muslims immigrated and settled in Bengal. Bengali language that was still in its mother's womb came into existence with the introduction and intermixing of the foreign words these immigrants brought with them.

But, English is different. It is only used by the snobbish rich people who tend to mix english words while speaking to show off their elitism. But, it is not used in the villages that much except for a few words like chair and table.

By citing the words like Chand, Raat or Din I was trying to convey the influence of hundreds of north indian words that were introduced throughout the centuries, and more during the muslim period, specially during the time of Akber, who encouraged muslims from north India to come with their families and domicile in east and north Bengal.

This was needed to offset the Muslim manpower in this region who fought against the Mughal rule of Bengal. The war continued for about 30 years, and ended in 1605 AD at the time of Jahangir, and when Shaikh Islam Khan was appointed the military governor of Sube Bangal.

 

[LaBong]

No, the influence of Persian, Arabic and Turkic from central asia cannot be compared with a few loan words from English or french. The former group constitutes the core of Bengali, whereas English words were just superficially imposed at the outer periphery of the language. The former group constitutes many thousand words, and the latter can be counted in the four fingers. Take out the west asian and north Indian words, even the skeleton of Bengali will evaporate. But, this cannot be said of european words, we can go without these.

Here, I am talking about Bangla when it was formed in the historical times when the foreign muslims immigrated and settled in Bengal. Bengali language that was still in its mother's womb came into existence with the introduction and intermixing of the foreign words these immigrants brought with them.

But, English is different. It is only used by the snobbish rich people who tend to mix english words while speaking to show off their elitism. But, it is not used in the villages that much except for a few words like chair and table.

By citing the words like Chand, Raat or Din I was trying to convey the influence of hundreds of north indian words that were introduced throughout the centuries, and more during the muslim period, specially during the time of Akber, who encouraged muslims from north India to come with their families and domicile in east and north Bengal.

This was needed to offset the Muslim manpower in this region who fought against the Mughal rule of Bengal. The war continued for about 30 years, and ended in 1605 AD at the time of Jahangir, and when Shaikh Islam Khan was appointed the military governor of Sube Bangal.

Bengali is based on Paakrit substratum and lexicographically very close to Sanskrit. The persian/arabian loan words are few as compared to hindusthani which is spoken in north India and no way it constitutes the core of the language. :/

You gotto be kidding me when you said "Take out the west asian and north Indian words, even the skeleton of Bengali will evaporate.". The development of Bengali as a language is independent than that of north Indian languages. Bengali as well as Assamese, Maithili etc derived from Magadhi Paakrit whereas Hindusthani, Punjabi etc derived from Sauraseni Paakrit. Assamese is the closest cousin of Bengali and Assam never been conquered by Mughals thus nullifying the Persian influence part. I wish toxic_pus had that Suniti Kumar Chatterji's book.

The typical Bengali dictionary lists 75,000 separate words, of which 50,000 (67%) are considered তৎসম tôtshômo (words directly reborrowed from Sanskrit), 21,100 (28%) are তদ্ভব tôdbhôbo (native Bengali vocabulary with Sanskrit cognates), and the rest being borrowings from দেশী deshi "indigenous" (i.e. Austroasiatic) or বিদেশী bideshi "foreign" sources.

There are even Portuguese loan words in Bengali such as janla, balti, behala, saban, toale, baranda etc etc.

 

[eastwatch]

Bengali is based on Paakrit substratum and lexicographically very close to Sanskrit. The persian/arabian loan words are few as compared to hindusthani which is spoken in north India and no way it constitutes the core of the language. :/

You gotto be kidding me when you said "Take out the west asian and north Indian words, even the skeleton of Bengali will evaporate.". The development of Bengali as a language is independent than that of north Indian languages. Bengali as well as Assamese, Maithili etc derived from Magadhi Paakrit whereas Hindusthani, Punjabi etc derived from Sauraseni Paakrit. Assamese is the closest cousin of Bengali and Assam never been conquered by Mughals thus nullifying the Persian influence part. I wish toxic_pus had that Suniti Kumar Chatterji's book.

The typical Bengali dictionary lists 75,000 separate words, of which 50,000 (67%) are considered তৎসম tôtshômo (words directly reborrowed from Sanskrit), 21,100 (28%) are তদ্ভব tôdbhôbo (native Bengali vocabulary with Sanskrit cognates), and the rest being borrowings from দেশী deshi "indigenous" (i.e. Austroasiatic) or বিদেশী bideshi "foreign" sources.

There are even Portuguese loan words in Bengali such as janla, balti, behala, saban, toale, baranda etc etc.

Please do not cite those Hindu sponsored books that do not say a single word about the infusion of Arabic, Persian, Turkic and other words that are used daily by both the muslims and hindus. I am not talking here about the language that was superficially created after Bengali grammar was written only after 1805 by the Sanskrit-educated Hindu Pundits.

These hindu Pundits and after them most other writers have cumulatively taken away the commonly spoken Bengali to a Sanskrit-based Bengali that is not commonly spoken by the population.

Like you I can also give you many references that will support only your view. But, go to the root of Bengali and not to that point in 1805 when the grammar was written. Portigese sponsored grammar was very small composed of a few pages written around 1780s. Only Principal Kerry, Tarkalankar and other Hindu Pundits of Fort William College wrote a very elaborate grammar.

Early Bengali literature was composed of only poetries. There was no prose, no essay, and there was not even a single letter that was written in Bengali. When Nawab Alivardy Khan died on April 12 1756, Siraj invited men of high positions to his coronation. The languages were Sanskrit and Persian. One form, i.e, the NIMONTRON POTRO was sent to the Hindus, and other form DAWATNAMA was sent to the Muslims. Bengali, as we know today, was absent in Bengal even in those days.

But, it was spoken and poetries were written with those words that I am trying to emphasize here. Please check the words in those PUNTHI SHAHITYO to know the form of Bengali words of those days written both by hindus and Muslims. Certainly you will not refuse to accept these poetries as our treasures.

This form of Bengali was totally changed to another form by Hindus like Iswar Chandra, Bankim Chandra and others. Muslims, like Mir Musharraf Hossain, also followed this form. There are no Arabic and Persian words in this form. But, I am talking about the original form that used to be spoken in the middle ages and still is spoken by the common people.

I am not talking about the words that were superficially imposed by the Sanskrit Pundits on Bengali. Common people do not say TARABARI, but would say TALWAR. They do not say BONDI kora, but would say GREPTAR kora. They do not say BOL PROYOG kora, but would say ZABARDASTI kora etc. etc. But, read the Bengali dramas written by the Hindus. And here you are trying to say those unusual words used by the Hindus are the only Bengali words and not the words used by the common people.

Now, if you are of the opinion that TARABARI is a Bengali word and TALWAR is not, then I have nothing to say, except that whatever words are spoken by the people are Bengali. I have read many books of differing opinions and have read a few PUNTHI of older days to know better what Bengali was and how Arabic and Persians had influenced Bengali.

But, unfortunately Hindus are trying to deny this fact and are trying to purify the language by intentionally discarding muslim origin words from it. But, so far they have failed. When the Hindu style of writing started only after 1805, the Hindus are claiming a Sanskrit based Bangla as if it was there in the present form for the last two thousand years. It is a compmlete lie.

Sanskrit, Pali, Prakrit forms are difficult thing to discuss in this thread. All words must be researched to know how they have transformed through centuries. I am talking here about the common speaking stule of the people, whether they say PAK GHAR or RANNA GHAR, and which form came 1st, and which form was artificially created by the Hindus to prove that Bangla is the grandchild of Sanskrit. Hindus are still doing the same kind of anatomy and surgery of the language. It may kill the patient.

 

[Awesome]

A lot of personal comments here, so I would request everyone to keep things about the topic and ease up on the use of Bengali so we can better moderate the posts.

Also I'd like to comment upon the excessive commentary and discrimination based upon race and genes. Religion is not in anyone's genes. Descriptions like miser and cheapness are nothing but age old forms of racism. Similar negative depictions were done in the old times against the Jews as well. In the big wide world out there, its considered a very bad thing.

I understand the need for a cultural distinction between Bangladesh and West Bangal and I believe the reason you two are two are different has more to do with national issues than simply religion or genes or spending habits.

Focus upon your issues, this world is already filled with a lot of hate and there is no point to bring in pettiness to an already very complicated problem.

Once again, no matter what the political message, no one has the right to comment about one another. If you disagree, you may just disagree, not ridicule.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

EastWest,

You may like to read the origins of the Bengali language before you comment that Bengali is a language that was superficially created after Bengali grammar was written only after 1805 by the Sanskrit-educated Hindu Pundits.

Conveniently, Mir Jaffar become an Iraqi, buit not a Bengali even though Siraj ruled. And conveniently, Bengali is created by Sanskrit educated Hindu Pandits.

Hop scotch, is it?

One must remember language is not static. It is dynamic.

The languages that remained static faded away.

Even within a language there are dialects. A Shyleti speaks a totally different way than one from Barisal or Chattagram and so on. Does it mean they are different?

 

[LaBong]

Like Vinod said in some other thread, you seem to be quite reasonable at times but opinionated at some issues which clouds your ability of reasoning.

Please do not cite those Hindu sponsored books that do not say a single word about the infusion of Arabic, Persian, Turkic and other words that are used daily by both the muslims and hindus. I am not talking here about the language that was superficially created after Bengali grammar was written only after 1805 by the Sanskrit-educated Hindu Pundits.

Hindu sponsored books? Do you even know about Suniti Kumer Chaterjee? He was the single most example of academic cognizance probably only shadowed by the legend Iswar Chandra Vidyasagar, another Hindu Pundit in your parlance.

From wiki -

He went abroad to study at the University of London where he studied Phonology, Indo-European Linguistics, Prakrit, Persian, old Irish, Gothic and other languages. He then went to Paris and did research at the Sorbonne in Indo-Aryan, Slav and Indo-European Linguistics, Greek and Latin.

I'd certainly believe what this Hindu sponsored book has to say about the issue rather than armchair-linguistics here.

It's another matter someone without iota knowledge about Bengal thanking your post but this, coming from you and you being a Bengali, is unfortunate.

These hindu Pundits and after them most other writers have cumulatively taken away the commonly spoken Bengali to a Sanskrit-based Bengali that is not commonly spoken by the population.

Like you I can also give you many references that will support only your view. But, go to the root of Bengali and not to that point in 1805 when the grammar was written. Portigese sponsored grammar was very small composed of a few pages written around 1780s. Only Principal Kerry, Tarkalankar and other Hindu Pundits of Fort William College wrote a very elaborate grammar.

If we go to the root then we will find Charyapada, then Braja Buli literature which helped to shape the language. The commonly spoken language or Chalit Bhasha has experienced an organic growth as opposed to Sadhu Bhasha which is now only limited to editorials.

Early Bengali literature was composed of only poetries. There was no prose, no essay, and there was not even a single letter that was written in Bengali. When Nawab Alivardy Khan died on April 12 1756, Siraj invited men of high positions to his coronation. The languages were Sanskrit and Persian. One form, i.e, the NIMONTRON POTRO was sent to the Hindus, and other form DAWATNAMA was sent to the Muslims. Bengali, as we know today, was absent in Bengal even in those days.

This form of Bengali was totally changed to another form by Hindus like Iswar Chandra, Bankim Chandra and others. Muslims, like Mir Musharraf Hossain, also followed this form. There are no Arabic and Persian words in this form. But, I am talking about the original form that used to be spoken in the middle ages and still is spoken by the common people.

There was no concept of prose in any Indo-Aryan language back in those days, and I probably can safely broaden the realm to Indo-Iranian. Those Hindu and Muslim Pundits tediously incorporated this new facade of language, bulky and hilarious at start, wealthy with the course of time.

But, it was spoken and poetries were written with those words that I am trying to emphasize here. Please check the words in those PUNTHI SHAHITYO to know the form of Bengali words of those days written both by hindus and Muslims. Certainly you will not refuse to accept these poetries as our treasures.

I certainly do consider them as an asset, although I'm not very informed about the language they used. What I'm trying to allude is, when in North India a whole new language with new set of lexicography was born, there are only handful of Arab and Persian words in Bengali, even in the vernacular version.

I am not talking about the words that were superficially imposed by the Sanskrit Pundits on Bengali. Common people do not say TARABARI, but would say TALWAR. They do not say BONDI kora, but would say GREPTAR kora. They do not say BOL PROYOG kora, but would say ZABARDASTI kora etc. etc. But, read the Bengali dramas written by the Hindus. And here you are trying to say those unusual words used by the Hindus are the only Bengali words and not the words used by the common people.

Now, if you are of the opinion that TARABARI is a Bengali word and TALWAR is not, then I have nothing to say, except that whatever words are spoken by the people are Bengali. I have read many books of differing opinions and have read a few PUNTHI of older days to know better what Bengali was and how Arabic and Persians had influenced Bengali.

But, unfortunately Hindus are trying to deny this fact and are trying to purify the language by intentionally discarding muslim origin words from it. But, so far they have failed. When the Hindu style of writing started only after 1805, the Hindus are claiming a Sanskrit based Bangla as if it was there in the present form for the last two thousand years. It is a compmlete lie.

Sanskrit, Pali, Prakrit forms are difficult thing to discuss in this thread. All words must be researched to know how they have transformed through centuries. I am talking here about the common speaking stule of the people, whether they say PAK GHAR or RANNA GHAR, and which form came 1st, and which form was artificially created by the Hindus to prove that Bangla is the grandchild of Sanskrit. Hindus are still doing the same kind of anatomy and surgery of the language. It may kill the patient.

The same old, same old. Please try to understand my point. Language is not static, and changes with time. There are foreign loan words in Bengali. There are loan words in every single language in the world. However Persian and Arab origin words are handful in Bengali, there could be many reasons behind this, but it happened organically, no conspiracies by evil hindus behind it.

 

[eastwatch]

Like Vinod said in some other thread, you seem to be quite reasonable at times but opinionated at some issues which clouds your ability of reasoning.



Hindu sponsored books? Do you even know about Suniti Kumer Chaterjee? He was the single most example of academic cognizance probably only shadowed by the legend Iswar Chandra Vidyasagar, another Hindu Pundit in your parlance.

From wiki -

I'd certainly believe what this Hindu sponsored book has to say about the issue rather than armchair-linguistics here.

It's another matter someone without iota knowledge about Bengal thanking your post but this, coming from you and you being a Bengali, is unfortunate.

If we go to the root then we will find Charyapada, then Braja Buli literature which helped to shape the language. The commonly spoken language or Chalit Bhasha has experienced an organic growth as opposed to Sadhu Bhasha which is now only limited to editorials.

There was no concept of prose in any Indo-Aryan language back in those days, and I probably can safely broaden the realm to Indo-Iranian. Those Hindu and Muslim Pundits tediously incorporated this new facade of language, bulky and hilarious at start, wealthy with the course of time.

I certainly do consider them as an asset, although I'm not very informed about the language they used. What I'm trying to allude is, when in North India a whole new language with new set of lexicography was born, there are only handful of Arab and Persian words in Bengali, even in the vernacular version.

The same old, same old. Please try to understand my point. Language is not static, and changes with time. There are foreign loan words in Bengali. There are loan words in every single language in the world. However Persian and Arab origin words are handful in Bengali, there could be many reasons behind this, but it happened organically, no conspiracies by evil hindus behind it.

I do not know about many books, yet know about many others. But, does it change the core point that the muslim origin Bengali words are being discarded by the Hindiu elites since the time of Bankim or immediate before him? How do you assume that Bengali started only after 1805, and there was no Bengali before that because grammar was not there?

Do not cite WIKI and others because these were written also by ignorants like you, who would follow only that which are already written by someone else. These people do not have the capacity to think independently. All the Hindu elites are just trying to do BOLI of the language by saying Bengali is the the grandchild of Sanskrit.

A language is created naturally in the spoken form. In case of Bengali, it was created by the local words and the words brought by the foreign Muslims. This is same with English. It was created by a mix of local languages and French language that was brought by the French people who came to england and settled there after the Normandy invasion of England by William the Conqueror. If this is true, then same is true with Bengali.

In case of English what is true, is also true for Bengali and all other languages of this world. But, when esays, proses and novels were initiated by the Hindu elites after 1805, they intentionally discarded those words origin of which is Arabic and Persian, and is associated with the influx of muslims in Bengal from other regions.

Why are you here trying to avoid the core issue, and are trying to disprove the reality by citing references to those writers who have already discredited the infusion of non-Sanskrit words in Bengali.

You are, as usual in other threads, go on circular logic. I do my own research and you follow the books that were written by those masters of language who did not go beyond 1805 when the Bangla grammar was composed. Better you learn Bangla from PUNTHI SHAHITYO, and deduce your own conclusion. If you do so, you will see that your conclusion will be same as mine. But, You have to think everything in free mind, which, I think, is not possible for you because you have a static mind.

You want to prove something that cannot be proved. Answer specifically about the non-Sanskrit words that I have quoted in my posts. Answer how these were incorporated in Bengali? There are many thousands of words like these. How many of these words the Hindu elite will be able to discard discard?

Facts about and history of Bangla cannot be changed. The footprints of non-Sanskrit words can still be seen in the daily conversation of people. I am not talking about the written form, because the Hindus have expelled non-Sanskrit words there, although not very successfully. Even the written form has to use the non-Sanskrit words associated with Muslims.

 

[LaBong]

You want to prove something that cannot be proved. Answer specifically about the non-Sanskrit words that I have quoted in my posts. Answer how these were incorporated in Bengali? There are many thousands of words like these. How many of these words the Hindu elite will be able to discard discard?

*Facepalm*

^You are confusing between Paakrit cognate of Tatsama Sanskrit and Persian loan words. Chand, Raat, Din all are Tadbhaba Paakrit word. Yeah there are many loan words in Bengali from Persian, French, English etc which enriched the language. A stagnated language is dead language.

I certainly do consider them as an asset, although I'm not very informed about the language they used. What I'm trying to allude is, when in North India a whole new language with new set of lexicography was born, there are only handful of Arab and Persian words in Bengali, even in the vernacular version.

^which part of it is hard to understand?

A language is created naturally in the spoken form. In case of Bengali, it was created by the local words and the words brought by the foreign Muslims. This is same with English. It was created by a mix of local languages and French language that was brought by the French people who came to england and settled there after the Normandy invasion of England by William the Conqueror. If this is true, then same is true with Bengali.

English is West Germanic language and French is Romance language!

There are however French loan words in English and vice versa.

I do not know about many books, yet know about many others. But, does it change the core point that the muslim origin Bengali words are being discarded by the Hindiu elites since the time of Bankim or immediate before him? How do you assume that Bengali started only after 1805, and there was no Bengali before that because grammar was not there?

So there was no language before Panini codified and named it Classical Sanskrit? Are you outta your mind? :/

Do not cite WIKI and others because these were written also by ignorants like you, who would follow only that which are already written by someone else. These people do not have the capacity to think independently. All the Hindu elites are just trying to do BOLI of the language by saying Bengali is the the grandchild of Sanskrit.

I could be ignorant, but certainly is clever enough. We wouldn't lie about accomplishment of a person because that can be easily found out!

Why are you here trying to avoid the core issue, and are trying to disprove the reality by citing references to those writers who have already discredited the infusion of non-Sanskrit words in Bengali.

The reality is there are few middle-eastern origin words in Bengali, which is kinda hard to swallow by you lot. I dare you tell me only 100 Arab and Persian words which is used in daily conversation in Bengali. It seems you guys associate language with religion, going by your logic, for all I know those Persian words can be Zoroastrian in origin. :/

Why, why Arab and Persia is so important to some, why not thousand times more Austro-Asiatic 'non-Sanskrit' words in Bengali deserve same attention!!

Anyway I'm done with it.

 

[Md Akmal]

I would also like to add that bengali hindus contributed a lot to overthrow the british rule. Revolutionary groups like jugantor, anushilan samity and bengal volunteers were mostly made out of bengali hindus who plotted to overthrow the british.

@ All these revolutionary groups of Hindus have no link with the "Sepoy Mutiny of 1857", all these movement started after the partition of Bengal in 1905. At that time Muslims of Bengal were very close with the British authority. On the other hand Bengalee Hindus for the annulment of Bengal started the movement against the British.

@ Khudiram, Master da Surju Sen, Pretilotta all movement went against the interest of Bengalee Muslims. It was a tug of games.
1. Once the East India Coy came to Bengal, the Hindus welcomed and whole heartedly collaborrated with them but Muslims fought alone.
2. Once Bengal was partitioned in 1905, the Muslims welcomed them but the Bengalee Hindus revolted in all aspect be politically, culturally and even by terrorism so the Britisher were forced for the annullment of partition. The struggle movement went to such an extend that Britisher were compelled to shift their Capital city from Calcutta to New Delhi. So, one Bengalee writer said,"Chine jugloo, Japan jugloo, Bangalee jugbe kobe". The writer here indicates the Chinese Revolution of Saniatsen of 1909 and the victory of Japan at Port Author in 1901-1903 against Russia.
3. After the First World War once the Allied Forces annexed/broke the territories of Ottaman Empire(Turkey) the Muslims of Indian Sub-Continent started the "Khilafat Movement" but though the Hindus(Congress) initially supported the movement they suddenly withdrew the support.
4. Once the British joined the war infavour of Allied Forces in Second World War Congress at once resigned from the govt. Soon ML also resigned but British picked up AK Fuzlul Huq as war time Chief Minister of Bengal. So, most of the muslims of Bengal supported the British and joined in the British Army. On the otherhand Neta jee Subash Chandra Bosh resigned from Congress and flade to Afganistan and from their to Germany. Soon he organised the "Azad Hind Fouz" to fight against British. Through out this period the Muslims of Bengal remained true loyal to the British Govt. This is a real trajedy.