Remembering Freedom fighters.

[salman nedian]

@salman nedian, thanks for the informative post on Tipu Sultan espicially on his involvement on defending Hindu temples against negihbouring kings. I wasn't aware of that.

From the Islamic point of view, as long as the law of lan provides you to practice and preach you faith with no interference, there is no requirement to fight. Its only if these freedoms are suppressed that it becomes an issue. Most groups that use Islam as their reason to fight fail to check this basic criteria.

However, coming out of the theological aspect, freedom fighters can tend to be terrorists particularly when they target innocent civilians. Examples includes Basque ETA group in France, LTTE in Sri Lanka and so on. These people are fighting for political reasons

That’s what I am saying we only support those freedom fighters that are fighting purely for Islam and to liberate their land. The people fighting with Pakistani forces are not freedom fighters because they are not fighting against the US occupation in fact they are on foreign payroll so they are being used and brainwashed.

 

[jai_shri_Ram]

Subhash Chandra Bose (January 23, 1897 - August 18, 1945?), also known as Netaji, was one of the most prominent leaders of the Indian Independence Movement against the British Raj. Subhas Chandra Bose was born to an affluent family in Cuttack, Orissa. His father, Janakinath Bose, was a public prosecutor who believed in orthodox nationalism, and later became a member of the Bengal Legislative Council. His mother was Prabhavati Bose, a remarkable example of Indian womanhood. Bose was educated at Cambridge University. In 1920, Bose took the Indian Civil Service entrance examination and was placed second. However, he resigned from the prestigious Indian Civil Service in April 1921 despite his high ranking in the merit list, and went on to become an active member of India's independence movement. He joined the Indian National Congress, and was particularly active in its youth wing. Subhas Chandra Bose felt that young militant groups could be molded into a military arm of the freedom movement and used to further the cause. Gandhiji opposed this ideology because it directly conflicted with his policy of ahimsa (non-violence). The British Government in India perceived Subhas as a potential source of danger and had him arrested without any charge on October 25, 1924. He was sent to Alipore Jail, Calcutta and in January 25, 1925 transferred to Mandalay, Burma. He was released from Mandalay in May, 1927 due to his ill health. Upon return to Calcutta, Subhas was elected President of the Bengal Congress Committee on October 27, 1927.
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Subhas was one of the few politicians who sought and worked towards Hindu-Muslim unity on the basis of respect of each community's rights. Subhas, being a man of ideals, believed in independence from the social evil of religious discord. In January 1930 Subhas was arrested while leading a procession condemning imprisonment of revolutionaries. He was offered bail on condition that he signs a bond to refrain from all political activities, which he refused. As a result he was sentenced to a year's imprisonment. On his release from jail, Subhas was sworn in as Mayor of the Calcutta Corporation. In 1931 the split between Gandhiji and Subhas crystallized. Although the two never saw eye to eye on their view of freedom and the movement itself, Subhas felt that Gandhiji had done a great disservice to the movement by agreeing to take part in the Second Round Table Conference. Subhas viewed freedom as an absolute necessity, unlike the freedom which Gandhiji was "negotiating" with the British. Subhas was arrested again while returning from Bombay to Calcutta, and imprisoned in several jails outside West Bengal in fear of an uprising. His health once again deteriorated and the medical facilities diagnosed him with tuberculosis. It was recommended that he be sent to Switzerland for treatment. Realizing that his avenues abroad were greater with the restrictions of the British, Subhas set sail for Europe on February 23, 1933. Subhas stayed in various parts of Europe from March 1993 to March 1936 making contacts with Indian revolutionaries and European socialists supporting India's Struggle for Independence. Subhas met Mussolini in Italy and made Vienna his headquarters. Subhas was opposed to the racial theory of Nazism but appreciated its organizational strength and discipline. On March 27, 1936 he sailed for Bombay and but was escorted to jail immediately after disembarking. After lying low for a year, he was able to work actively. He attended the All India Congress Committee Session in Calcutta, the first one he attended after a lapse of nearly six years. Time had healed the tensions between Subhas and Gandhiji, and Gandhiji supported Subhas in his efforts to become the President of the next Congress session, 1938. He went to England for a month in 1938 and rallied for the Indian freedom cause amongst Indian students and British labor leaders sympathetic toward India's cause. It was a bold move since he was constantly under British surveillance. Upon his return to India in February 1938, Subhas was elected President of the Indian National Congress. An excerpt from his Presidential address read, "I have no doubt in my mind that our chief national problems relating to the eradication of poverty, illiteracy and disease and the scientific production and distribution can be tackled only along socialistic lines... ." Subhas emphasized that political freedom alone would not be sufficient, as the ills of the British reign would continue to haunt post-Independent India. He stressed the need to solve linguistic and religious prejudices and to achieve a high literacy rate amongst Indians. Gandhiji found Subhas's ideologies far too leftist and strongly disagreed with Subhas's criticism of village industries and stress on competing with the rest of the world in the Industrial age. Opposition from Sardar Vallabhai Patel, lack of support from Gandhiji and Nehru's indecision marked Subhas's year as the President of the Congress. One of Subhas' major contributions was setting up of a National Planning Committee, for the development of an economic program running parallel to the national movement. Differences between Gandhiji and Subhas led to a crisis when Gandhiji opposed Subhas' idea that the Bengal Government (a coalition between the Krishak Praja Party & Muslim League) be ousted and the Congress take charge in coalition with the Krishak party. The idea was criticized by Gandhiji and Nehru, which resulted in the strengthening of the Muslim League in Bengal and ultimately partition of India. It is obvious today that had Subhas been able to carry out his plans, Bengal would be a different entity on the atlas. Despite opposition from the Congress brass, Subhas was a favorite amongst the majority as he was re-elected for a second term in March 1939. Gandhiji considered Subhas's victory as his personal defeat and went on a fast to rally the members of the Working Committee to resign. Subhas resigned and Dr. Rajendra Prasad assumed the Presidency of the Congress. In May 1939, Subhas formed the Forward Bloc within the Congress as an umbrella organization of the left forces within the Congress. Gandhiji and his supporters accused Subhas of breach of Congress party discipline and drafted a resolution removing Subhas from the Congress Working Committee and restrained him from holding any office for three years. On September 3, 1939 Subhas was informed that war had broken out between Britain and Germany. Subhas discussed the idea of an underground struggle against the British with members of the Forward Bloc. Subhas pressurized the Congress leaders to get a Declaration of War Aims from the Viceroy; he declined. Subhas was elected President of the West Bengal Provincial Congress. In December the Congress Working Committee subverted the Provincial Committee's authority and appointed its own ad hoc committee. The Forward Bloc progressively became militant and by April 1940 most of its senior members were arrested. Subhas was convinced that the only way he could bring about India's Independence was by leaving the country and fighting from foreign territories. He had made contact with radical Punjab and Pathan activists who had contacts in Afghanistan and Russia to organize a militia. Subhas knew that Britain was in a vulnerable position following the surrender of France in June 1940. He announced the launch of Siraj-ud-daula Day on July 3, in memory of the last king of Bengal who was defeated by Clive. His plan was to hold a procession and to unify Hindu and Muslim nationalists. The Government interceded and imprisoned Subhas on July 2, 1940 in Presidency Jail, Calcutta. Netaji believed that foreign assistance was a must to free India from British rule. In 1939, when the Second World War broke out, Subhas sought assistance from Germany, Italy, and Japan as they were enemies of Britain and thus would be natural allies. In 1941, he evaded a house-arrest in Calcutta by disguising himself as a Maulavi and going to Kabul, Afghanistan. Later, he procured an Italian passport and fled to Berlin, Germany. There he met Hitler and discussed his plans and sought his assistance to free India. He also sought assistance from Mussolini. From time to time, he aired his speeches on the Azad Hind Radio from Berlin to communicate his intentions to fellow Indians and to prove that he was still alive. After the defeat of Germany, Netaji realized that he could not continue his struggle from Germany anymore. Ultimately, Netaji reached Japan in June, 1943. He established the Indian National Army (INA) with some 30,000 Indian soldiers. He also set up a radio network in South East Asia in order to appeal to the people, both in India and outside, for support. The INA declared war against Britain and America. However, the INA had to retreat from the Indo-Burmese border after a heavy defeat of the Japanese troops there. The British defense was impenetrable. Though the "Delhi Chalo" mission failed, Netaji proved to the world that his determination was strong and his attitude was positive in his dream to free India from the clutches of the British.

On August 16, 1945 Netaji boarded a plane from Singapore to Bangkok. Netaji was scheduled to fly in a Type 97-2 bomber 'Sally' from Bangkok to Saigon. The plane made a stopover in Taipei and crashed within minutes of take-off from Taipei. Netaji's body was cremated in Taipei on August 20, 1945 and his ashes were flown to Tokyo on September 5, 1945 where they rest in the Renkoji Temple. To this day, many believe that Netaji escaped from the air crash and went into hiding.

Netaji wanted unconditional and complete freedom. He dreamed of a classless society with no caste barriers, social inequalities or religious intolerance. He believed in equal distribution of wealth and destruction of communalism. His slogan "Jai Hind" still acts as a great binding force today

 

[salman nedian]

Yes I do agree with majority of your points.

But are these traitors qualified enough to achieve the status of Freedom fighters? There is huge lot of difference.

On many occasions Kashmiri freedom fighter groups denounced any association with such elements. As for the qualification, obviously man when any freedom struggle starts people usually do not inquire about the background of the people joining in as long as they are joining to liberate their land.

 

[salman nedian]

The greatest for us:

Qaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah Urdu: Hi-Muhammed_Ali_Jinnah.ogg Hi-Muhammed_Ali_Jinnah.ogg (help·info) (Urdu: محمد علی جنا&#1581 (December 25, 1876 – September 11, 1948), a 20th century politician and statesman, is generally regarded as the founder of Pakistan. He served as leader of The Muslim League and Pakistan's first Governor-General. He is officially known in Pakistan as Quaid-e-Azam (Urdu: قائد اعظم — "Great Leader") and Baba-e-Qaum (بابائے قو&#1605 ("Father of the Nation"). His birthday is a national holiday in Pakistan. Jinnah rose to prominence in the Indian National Congress initially expounding ideas of Hindu-Muslim unity and helping shape the 1916 Lucknow Pact between the Muslim League and the Indian National Congress; he also became a key leader in the All India Home Rule League. He proposed a fourteen-point constitutional reform plan to safeguard the political rights of Muslims in a self-governing India.

Jinnah, advocating the Two-Nation Theory, embraced the goal of creating a separate state for Muslims as per the Lahore Resolution. The League won most reserved Muslim seats in the elections of 1946, and Jinnah launched the Direct Action campaign movement to achieve the formation of Pakistan. As the Indian National Congress and Muslim League failed to reach a power sharing formula for united India, it prompted both the parties and the British to agree to independence of Pakistan and India. As the first Governor-General of Pakistan, Jinnah led efforts to rehabilitate millions of refugees, and to frame national policies on foreign affairs, security and economic development. He died a year after Pakistan's formation in September 1948.


Early political career
Muhammad Ali Jinnah, as a young lawyer.

In 1896, Jinnah joined the Indian National Congress, which was the largest Indian political organisation. Like most of the Congress at the time, Jinnah did not favour outright independence, considering British influences on education, law, culture and industry as beneficial to India. Jinnah became a member on the sixty-member Imperial Legislative Council. The council had no real power or authority, and included a large number of un-elected pro-Raj loyalists and Europeans. Nevertheless, Jinnah was instrumental in the passing of the Child Marriages Restraint Act, the legitimization of the Muslim waqf (religious endowments) and was appointed to the Sandhurst committee, which helped establish the Indian Military Academy at Dehra Dun.[5][14] During World War I, Jinnah joined other Indian moderates in supporting the British war effort, hoping that Indians would be rewarded with political freedoms.

Jinnah had initially avoided joining the All India Muslim League, founded in 1906, regarding it as too Muslim oriented. However he decided to provide leadership to the Muslim minority. Eventually, he joined the league in 1913 and became the president at the 1916 session in Lucknow. Jinnah was the architect of the 1916 Lucknow Pact between the Congress and the League, bringing them together on most issues regarding self-government and presenting a united front to the British. Jinnah also played an important role in the founding of the All India Home Rule League in 1916. Along with political leaders Annie Besant and Tilak, Jinnah demanded "home rule" for India—the status of a self-governing dominion in the Empire similar to Canada, New Zealand and Australia. He headed the League's Bombay Presidency chapter.

In 1918, Jinnah married his second wife Rattanbai Petit ("Ruttie"), twenty-four years his junior. She was the fashionable young daughter of his personal friend Sir Dinshaw Petit, of an elite Parsi family of Mumbai. Unexpectedly there was great opposition to the marriage from Rattanbai's family and Parsi society, as well as orthodox Muslim leaders. Rattanbai defied her family and nominally converted to Islam, adopting (though never using) the name Maryam Jinnah, resulting in a permanent estrangement from her family and Parsi society. The couple resided in Mumbai, and frequently travelled across India and Europe. In 1919 she bore Jinnah his only child, daughter Dina Jinnah.

In 1924 Jinnah reorganized the Muslim League, of which he had been president since 1919, and devoted the next seven years attempting to bring about unity among the disparate ranks of Muslims and to develop a rational formula to effect a Hindu Muslim settlement, which he considered the pre condition for Indian freedom. He attended several unity conferences, wrote the Delhi Muslim Proposals in 1927, pleaded for the incorporation of the basic Muslim demands in the Nehru report, and formulated the “Fourteen Points”[15]



Governor-General
Jinnah with Gandhi, 1944.

Along with Liaquat Ali Khan and Abdur Rab Nishtar, Muhammad Ali Jinnah represented the League in the Division Council to appropriately divide public assets between India and Pakistan.[43] The assembly members from the provinces that would comprise Pakistan formed the new state's constituent assembly, and the Military of British India was divided between Muslim and non-Muslim units and officers. Indian leaders were angered at Jinnah's courting the princes of Jodhpur, Bhopal and Indore to accede to Pakistan - these princely states were not geographically aligned with Pakistan, and each had a Hindu-majority population.[44]

Jinnah became the first Governor-General of Pakistan and president of its constituent assembly. Inaugurating the assembly on August 11, 1947, Jinnah spoke of an inclusive and pluralist democracy promising equal rights for all citizens regardless of religion, caste or creed. This address is a cause of much debate in Pakistan as, on its basis, many claim that Jinnah wanted a secular state while supporters of Islamic Pakistan assert that this speech is being taken out of context when compared to other speeches by him.

On October 11, 1947, in an address to Civil, Naval, Military and Air Force Officers of Pakistan Government, Karachi, he said:

We should have a State in which we could live and breathe as free men and which we could develop according to our own lights and culture and where principles of Islamic social justice could find free play.[45]

On February 21, 1948, in an address to the officers and men of the 5th Heavy Ack Ack and 6th Light Ack Ack Regiments in Malir, Karachi, he said:

You have to stand guard over the development and maintenance of Islamic democracy, Islamic social justice and the equality of manhood in your own native soil. With faith, discipline and selfless devotion to duty, there is nothing worthwhile that you cannot achieve.[46]

The office of Governor-General was ceremonial, but Jinnah also assumed the lead of government. The first months of Pakistan's independence were absorbed in ending the intense violence that had arisen in the wake of acrimony between Hindus and Muslims. Jinnah agreed with Indian leaders to organise a swift and secure exchange of populations in the Punjab and Bengal. He visited the border regions with Indian leaders to calm people and encourage peace, and organised large-scale refugee camps. Despite these efforts, estimates on the death toll vary from around two hundred thousand, to over a million people.[citation needed] The estimated number of refugees in both countries exceeds 15 million.[47] The then capital city of Karachi saw an explosive increase in its population owing to the large encampments of refugees, which personally affected and depressed Jinnah.[48]

In his first visit to East Pakistan, under the advice of local party leaders, Jinnah stressed that Urdu alone should be the national language; a policy that was strongly opposed by the Bengali people of East Pakistan (now Bangladesh). This opposition grew after he controversially described Bengali as the language of Hindus.[49][50]

Jinnah authorised force to achieve the annexation of the princely state of Kalat and suppress the insurgency in Baluchistan. He controversially accepted the accession of Junagadh—a Hindu-majority state with a Muslim ruler located in the Saurashtra peninsula, some 400 kilometres (250 mi) southeast of Pakistan—but this was annulled by Indian intervention. It is unclear if Jinnah planned or knew of the tribal invasion from Pakistan into the kingdom of Jammu and Kashmir in October 1947, but he did send his private secretary Khurshid Ahmed to observe developments in Kashmir. When informed of Kashmir's accession to India, Jinnah deemed the accession illegitimate and ordered the Pakistani army to enter Kashmir.[51] However, Gen. Auchinleck, the supreme commander of all British officers informed Jinnah that while India had the right to send troops to Kashmir, which had acceded to it, Pakistan did not. If Jinnah persisted, Auchinleck would remove all British officers from both sides. As Pakistan had a greater proportion of Britons holding senior command, Jinnah cancelled his order, but protested to the United Nations to intercede.[51]

Muhammad Ali Jinnah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[EyelessInGaza]

Lets not be hypocritical on the subject of who's a freedom fighter and who's not.

Freedom fighters are defined by the state, just as the winners write the history.

In an alternate history Bhagat Singh would have been a terrorist.

Tomorrow if Baluchistan becomes independent, be sure that they'll write their own history and create their own heroes. Likewise for Kashmir.

It also works both ways. Just because someone is fighting for Islam does not mean they're freedom fighters.

 

[salman nedian]

Lets not be hypocritical on the subject of who's a freedom fighter and who's not.

Freedom fighters are defined by the state, just as the winners write the history.

In an alternate history Bhagat Singh would have been a terrorist.

Tomorrow if Baluchistan becomes independent, be sure that they'll write their own history and create their own heroes. Likewise for Kashmir.

It also works both ways. Just because someone is fighting for Islam does not mean they're freedom fighters.

If some is fighting to liberate the Islamic land from the occupiers like Palestinians and Kashmiris, they are freedom fighters.

 

[U-571]

hahahahaha freedom fighters of bangladesh, better call them indian trained RAW agents, soviet aided people. if kashmir, assam, khalistan get independence, would you call them freedom fighters????

 

[IndianSuperpower]

If some is fighting to liberate the Islamic land from the occupiers like Palestinians and Kashmiris, they are freedom fighters.

What actually you mean by a Islamic land?
The place where muslims live in majority. But the whole planet belongs to Allah. How are you justified in calling the place only where Muslims live as the Islamic land. The whole universe is Islamic so how a single place where muslims dont live becomes unislamic... Whole world belongs to Allah so everything is Islamic..

Coming back to topic.
Palestinians and Kashmiris, they are freedom fighters. till they dont end up killing innocent civilians or firing rockets which kills the civilian population. In such a case it becomes a aggression towards the concerned state and state has the right to deal with them severly.

 

[IndianSuperpower]

hahahahaha freedom fighters of bangladesh,

here we are talking in context of prior to independence when India, Pakistan and Bangladesh were one. We are talking about the freedom fighters who faught against the British Rule.

 

[Comet]

Guys lets draw some distinct line between Freedom Fighters and Terrorists.
Definitions:
1) A freedom fighter of one nation is a terrorist of another.
2) Any one who kills innocent people while fighting for freedom, is a terrorist.

what do you guys think?

 

[EyelessInGaza]

If some is fighting to liberate the Islamic land from the occupiers like Palestinians and Kashmiris, they are freedom fighters.

Palestinians, Kashmiris, Uighurs, Bosnians ..

In my opinion it depends on who you ask, and when you ask them.

 

[paritosh]

Balochistan is legal part of Pakistan not some invaded or occupied country hence anyone there doing ant anti-state activity is a terrorist.

By this defination i also did not call Mosits fighting against india as freedom fighters. They are also militants.


Whereas Kashmiris are freedom fighters. Afghan Taliban fighting invaders US and NATO are also freedom fighters.

it doesn't matte in this thread...btw the maoists are patriotic Indians...they just want the power to be with the people.

 

[vsdoc]

If some is fighting to liberate the Islamic land from the occupiers like Palestinians and Kashmiris, they are freedom fighters.

Please define "Isamic Land."

Who decides?

Once decided and designated as such, is it permanent or can something/someone/someday cause it to change?

Is your view to be taken as a pakistani view, an Islamic view, or a general universally accepted world view?

Please wake me up when you have suitable answers .....

Cheers, Doc

 

[salman nedian]

An Islamic land is the place where majority of the people are Muslims. Yes I do agree that the whole planet belongs to Allah but all those places where Muslims are in Majority and if they want Islamic Sharia or Islamic laws to be implemented, they must have full rights to live their lives according to the Islamic way of life.

Now if any new place becomes Islamic (majority of people become Muslims), that place will automatically qualify for the place of Islamic land and hence if someone occupy that land the struggle will be called freedom struggle.

 

[salman nedian]

Please define "Isamic Land."

Who decides?

Once decided and designated as such, is it permanent or can something/someone/someday cause it to change?

Is your view to be taken as a pakistani view, an Islamic view, or a general universally accepted world view?

Please wake me up when you have suitable answers .....

Cheers, Doc

Please explain how someone can change the status of Islamic land? By killing people and genocide them?