Reloaded Arjun Killed At Birth?

[sancho]

if i am not wrong Arjun was meant to be 40 ton tank

but IA kept changing requirements

Not possible with this size and I doubt that such a lenght and width were IA requirements.

 

[Indian009]

for those who cry for indigenous only equipment in armed forces should use only made in India ( govt factories only) goods in their life, should fly only with Air India and study only in govt school/colleges. Follow this and then talk or STFU.

Mr. Punit if you don't know buying best quality weapon systems isn't big deal for India. India can afford it atleast now and we have people selling us best of best things for only reason - we have money and our relations are good with them.
Quality of Indian products is not best I agree. But do you know how the BEST in the section become best today ??? Cause their own country support them in beginning. And we can't keep the buying list running for decades to come. We are spending 30+ B$ this year. That's a big sum. If we would have developed LCA mark 2 MMRCA deal would have been scraped and funds would have utilised for other efforts and development.
Buying the best things for the men who prepare to lay down their lives for the country has no second opinions; but developing your own technology is even more important as it reduces the reliabity on others in time of need. Hope you understand what I mean.

Not possible with this size and I doubt that such a lenght and width were IA requirements.

Do you know what's the problem of IA for using heavy tank ???

Not possible with this size and I doubt that such a lenght and width were IA requirements.

Do you know what's the problem of IA for using heavy tank ???

 

[punit]

^ i appreciate ur feeling. But as i mentioned earlier indegenous doesnt mean being made in govt factories run by good 4 nothing babus. Imo without participation of pvt players self reliance cant be achived. Hope u understand what i mean.

 

[Abingdonboy]

IA doesn't have any real issue other than logistics when it comes to operating a heavy tank. The real issue is mobility and on this from the Arjun scores higher than the T-90 so the IA loves the Arjun.

 

[Indian009]

^ i appreciate ur feeling. But as i mentioned earlier indegenous doesnt mean being made in govt factories run by good 4 nothing babus. Imo without participation of pvt players self reliance cant be achived. Hope u understand what i mean.

I do understand your second post but still the approach was wrong. Participation of private players is good not its best. But are you exepecting GOI should develop them ??? They should sand on their own so be fit to take that responsibility.
Second and the most important concern of GOI is security of the critical know how material. If they share it with private players there is certain possibilities of it falling in wrong hands for money.

As long as I understand government will deal with private firms which bring Forgin tech in India and doing JV in such projects where there is no chance of slips of tech to outside. Most likely the Arty and vehicles. But I don't see any Indian company will be making missiles or planes or subs

^ i appreciate ur feeling. But as i mentioned earlier indegenous doesnt mean being made in govt factories run by good 4 nothing babus. Imo without participation of pvt players self reliance cant be achived. Hope u understand what i mean.

I do understand your second post but still the approach was wrong. Participation of private players is good not its best. But are you exepecting GOI should develop them ??? They should sand on their own so be fit to take that responsibility.
Second and the most important concern of GOI is security of the critical know how material. If they share it with private players there is certain possibilities of it falling in wrong hands for money.

As long as I understand government will deal with private firms which bring Forgin tech in India and doing JV in such projects where there is no chance of slips of tech to outside. Most likely the Arty and vehicles. But I don't see any Indian company will be making missiles or planes or subs

 

[sancho]

Do you know what's the problem of IA for using heavy tank ???

Logistics were an issue at the begining, since Arun was too big in size, to be used on the normal trains and we had to develop special wagons for them. But the weight problem is more an issue for certain roads and bridges, for which Arjun is simply too much and where the T90 is more useful. Same goes for the mountain area, with limited space on roads and small bridges only. In these areas lighter tanks or wheeled tank destroyers are more useful, which is why IA searches for higher numbers of them, than of Arjun. But again, this should have been known before such developments starts and must have been part of the requirements, we really su... at logically planing such developments!

 

[SamantK]

i guess he is referring to this

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...jun-mk-2-user-trials-june-1-a.html?highlight=

No dude has some inside info.. I asked for Mk 2 trials as DRDO is conducting own testing now and IA in June..

how cute! Jet airways ! I would also recommend Tata/mahindra defence products rather than from the companies run by blood sckng babus.! Indegenous doesnt mean govt owned.
By the way what else indegenous products like phone,car,etc u use in daily life !

many technologies are sensitive and cannot be given to the private sector.

See Indigenous products like the ones you spoke about are not something that we cannot produce in-house or in India or by the private sector.. During a war these things will not be an issue
stop comparing apples and oranges..

how cute! Jet airways ! I would also recommend Tata/mahindra defence products rather than from the companies run by blood sckng babus.! Indegenous doesnt mean govt owned.
By the way what else indegenous products like phone,car,etc u use in daily life !

many technologies are sensitive and cannot be given to the private sector.

See Indigenous products like the ones you spoke about are not something that we cannot produce in-house or in India or by the private sector.. During a war these things will not be an issue
stop comparing apples and oranges..

sell arjun mkII with tot PA

if i were the mod of pak
i would scratch the al khalid II project

I guess that will be good atleast the R&D cost can be recovered and put to some more tech development..

 

[BATMAN]

Conflicting bureaucracy? generals and engineers at loggerheads with each other and amongst themselves? shifting blames for minor faults which are then interpreted as major setbacks by people such as Shiv?

Engineers blame is that army is involved in sabotaging of prototypes... they blamed army on almost all counts where army pointed failure.

Anyway, it is totally unpatriotic of Indian army to order Russian tank in thousands, while they have better home made tank.

I once remember reading amazing remarks about Arjun's ride and cabin comfort... do you have technical info on that?

 

[SamantK]

Engineers blame is that army is involved in sabotaging of prototypes... they blamed army on almost all counts where army pointed failure.

Anyway, it is totally unpatriotic of Indian army to order Russian tank in thousands, while they have better home made tank.

I once remember reading amazing remarks about Arjun's ride and cabin comfort... do you have technical info on that?

There are bad apples everywhere but the bad ones are somehow at the top

No, the T-90s were ordered at a time when Arjun was not fit and so it is not unjustified.. But buying after this would be unjustified.

Read the articles of Ajai Shukla.. he has good info on Arjun..
Broadsword

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Another BS sensationalised article by Mr Aroor. He has time and again got it wrong when it comes to Indian defence procurement programs. He bet on the EFT for MMRCA after "inside information"- either his "inside informer" is lying/wrong or he is making it all up (most likely). He really is an amateur and this comes out in his reporting (especially his televised pieces!).


AFAIK the IA as ordered 248 Mk.I and 124 Mk.II to date. There is also the likelihood of the DRDO's SPG being based on the Arjuni turret as will the bridge laying and recovery vehicle variants.


Once again he is trying to sell us a crock of **** based on his personal bias and flawed logic.

Dude only 248 arjuns are on order not 372..... unless u can provide a solid source... here is mine...
Indias Arjun MBT Mark II Ready for a Second Trial with the Lahat Missile and Other Upgrades - Defence Now

124 MK I on order and maybe 124 MK-IIs on order... not 248 MK-Is.

 

[Killswitch]

The biggest difference between the Arjun and T series is that the T series is built to avoid hits (low silhouette) and the Arjun is meant to survive hits (larger, much more armor, the ammo doesnt cook off so easily).


If the IA wants a lighter tank that is as survivable as the Arjun, it is going to have to wait for a technological leap in light weight armor design and production.


I think The IA should do the following:


Phase out:

T 55

T 72

Upgrade:

All T 90's to T 90 MS standard (more armor and less likely hood of cook offs due to the ammo storage flaw finally being fixed).

Induct at least 500 Arjun mk 2's as a heavy assault spearhead force. (holding is for p******)

 

[Abingdonboy]

^^ to some extent the IA is doing just that. The news that Shiv is reporting saying the Russians were in Delhi to talk about T-90MS sales to India is BS but they were in town to talk about current IA T-90S being upgraded to MS standard. Also I am pretty confident the IA will for for relatively high numbers of the Arjun Mk.II.

 

[Sergi]

People we have good news. But unfortunatly that's all I can share

And Mr. Shiv can go to hell for this report

 

[kurup]

People we have good news. But unfortunatly that's all I can share

And Mr. Shiv can go to hell for this report

So when will we actually hear this good news ??

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Lo ji ye bhi gaya . Defence manufacturing sector needs to be privatized .Now what tank are we going to import instead of this ? I am fed up