Rebuilding the army of Genghis Khan

[CekilinBenDoktorum]

Stupidity level : (WARNING) Very Fuckin High.

Bro don´t take this atatwolf guy serious. he is twisted mind MHP mofo. They are not Turks they are greek converts. he talks exactly like a greek.

 

[Path-Finder]

Hazara are Mongols. Is there any Mod that can clear up this thread up it has reached the station.

 

[Samandri]

Mongols massacred modern Afghanistan Aswell.. Yet not many afghans look mongloid apart from Uzbeks or Hazara (their descendants).



.

Mongols also went through your Baluchistan, why dont you people look like Mongols? Try to understand that the parts of Afghanistan, where Mongols committed genocide, are nowadays populated by Mongoloid people like Hazaras and Aimaq. Read the history of Bamiyan and what Mongols did to it.

Mongols were wiping out populations in their first wave as a terror and war tactic, but once they consolidated their rule, they slowed down. Central Asia and Northern Afghanistan suffered the most.
The mountainous Pashtun part with difficult terrain remained safe from such genocidal invasions of Mongols except for few raids. Mongols forces tasted their first defeat in the eastern Afghanistan in which Afghans formed half the forces of Jalaludin Khwarzimi. Pashtuns didnt live in the cities but in the hills and carrying out genocidal campaigns against villages of tribes on hills would have served no purpose , nor it was an easy task as mongols were not accustomed to hill warfare and avoided it. Thats why i dont look like a Hazara. I gave you example of diversity in the looks of Central asians from Uzbeks etc, . It simply implies that Caucasoid turanis have been Mongolized. For example when skull of Amir Timur was analyzed , it was noted on the basis of skull structure that , he had some Caucasian features even though his Barlas tribe was originally from Mongolia and settled in central adia, they concluded that at this time Mongols of Barlas had been Turkized due to admixture with remnants of original Turanis.

Uzbegs, Kazaks , Krghyz etc are heirs of Mongols rather than the Turks that we are familiar with in our history before 1217 AD. Its because of their language that they were Turks otherwise their culture , customary laws, traditions , military formations and tactics were all fully or partly Mongolian, not just the genetic make up.

 

[Yazp]

Uzbegs, Kazaks , Krghyz etc are heirs of Mongols rather than the Turks

from wikipedia:
"The Uzbeks (Oʻzbek, pl. Oʻzbeklar) are the largest Turkicethnic group in Central Asia."
"The Kazakhs (also spelled Kazaks, Qazaqs; Kazakh: Қазақ qɑzɑ́q (help·info), Қазақтар qɑzɑqtɑ́r (help·info); the English name is transliterated from Russian) are a Turkic people of the northern parts of Central Asia"
"The Kyrgyz (also spelled Kyrghyz and Kirghiz), a Turkic people, live primarily in the Kyrgyz Republic."

i don't even.... bloody hell man where do you get this stuff from?????
I agree with most of it but this....

 

[-SINAN-]

Uzbegs, Kazaks , Krghyz etc are heirs of Mongols rather than the Turks

@telkon

 

[Samandri]

You are not even Mongol but Hazara. Sorry to be frank with you since you have been insulting us for the last 10 pages or so but you are a product of Turco-Mongol conquest. Hazara's don't even have a country ,who are we Turkic people/Mongols to claim Hazara history? What a fool. Also Chagatai (not Chugtai) is Turco-Mongol, official language was Turkic, not mongol. The same counts for Golden Hode, and the other ones you summed up. Before making any other comments can you acknowledge your wrong information? Otherwise it is just trolling.

This is what Beatrice Forbes Manz says in her book The Rise and Rule of Tamerlane:

Hazaras definitely have Mongol roots, their exact history and lineage is not known though, unlike Uzbeks, Barlas etc. You people of Turkey have Greek phenotypes while Hazaras have very Mongolian looks, many of them have even epicanthic folds in their eyes. Genetic studies also support it. So i dont understand why a Europeaniod Turk from Turkey is contesting with Mongoloid Hazara for claim over Proper-Mongol title.

 

[BordoEnes]

The Ilkhanate was not Turkic, It only had Turkic subjects
The Chugtai was not Turkic, It only had Turkic subjects
The Golden Horde was Mongol until the late 13th century when it became Turkified because of Nogai.
The Yuan was most definitely not Turkic, I doubt there were Turks there besides those Sinkiang fellows, that also in the Chugtai Khanate.

That's pretty much it. Only one of them got Turkified, alot of years after the empire fell.
Also, the Turkification was due to an internal civil war with the Nogai.
This is exactly the type of stuff which I was saying before.

Most of you will start calling me a Turk hater or something. I'm not against Turks, i'm only against Turks who try to steal our history. You have the Ottomans, Seljuks, Gokturks, Timurds. Don't take ours and brand it as "TURK HISTORY :d'


Plus, you should thank Temujin Khan for effectively cooling the Planet, by removing over 700 million tons of carbondioxide from the Earth and letting forests grow.
We Mongols were always an environmental friendly people.

Most, if not all remnant post-mongol empire fragmentated khanates and states were either Turkic or Turkified. Why do you think there are so little Mongolians outside of inner Mongolia and Chinese Mongolia? None is trying to take your history here, we are trying to reach a point of clarity within the Mongolian-Turco history. Where do the mongolians fit in and where do the Turkic tribes?

- The Golden Horde was already Turkic by nature. The only mongolian thing about that empire were the elites. The same can be said about the Safavid Empire. The founder was Azeri Turkic but the empire is considered persian in its entirety and by core. Like we discussed before, the majority of Ghengiz Khan's army was infact Turkic, maybe not initially but most definitly during the later periods. We humans have a habit of claiming empires as our own only because the elites were. For example the Mughal empire was never Turkic by core.

- The Ghagatai Khanate was most definitly Turkic in a way similair to The Golden Horde. The elite where Mongolia, granted they never really got Turkifie. Though that isnt really relevant since that empire didnt really last long. What we should look at is what came after it. After all out of these ashes Turkic empires were born such as the Timurid Empire. Hell the last remnant Yarkent Khanate was also Turkic.

Now you can understand why most Turks considered Mongolians as cousin's or even blood brothers. The history between Turkic and Mongolian tribes are inter connected. Thats why alot of Turks consider Mongolian history part of Turkic history and Mongolians consider Turkic history as part of theirs.

History is fascinating isnt it

 

[atatwolf]

Some racist Pakistanis are still talking about genetics and looks while we said we don't care about that. This is a military thread and there is place for racism in the truco-Mongol world. I ask the mod of this sub forum to ban the racist pricks who bring off topic stuff to this military thread.

@cabatli_53 please thread ban the handful of Pakistani who bring non-military racist stuff to this military thread. They are ruining this thread.

 

[Samandri]

from wikipedia:
"The Uzbeks (Oʻzbek, pl. Oʻzbeklar) are the largest Turkicethnic group in Central Asia."
"The Kazakhs (also spelled Kazaks, Qazaqs; Kazakh: Қазақ qɑzɑ́q (help·info), Қазақтар qɑzɑqtɑ́r (help·info); the English name is transliterated from Russian) are a Turkic people of the northern parts of Central Asia"
"The Kyrgyz (also spelled Kyrghyz and Kirghiz), a Turkic people, live primarily in the Kyrgyz Republic."

i don't even.... bloody hell man where do you get this stuff from?????
I agree with most of it but this....

Timur was a Turk or Mongol? even though he was linguistically Turk but was of Mongol race with some Turkish admixture. Hazaras speak farsi, by your logic they should be considered Persians?. Frankly speaking history and lineage of Hazaras is unknown , it was not even known in medieval times, probably they are Persio-Mongols. The proper heirs of Mongol hordes in central asia, i.e Turko-Mongols Uzbegs, Arghuns, timurids etc, never recognized Hazaras as their own and equal, they must have reasons for it.

 

[atatwolf]

Can I ask the Pakistani who keep talking about genetics and looks to stop posting about that in this Turco-Mongol military thread? We don't care about that since we are not racists. Thanks in advance.

 

[Yazp]

Timur was a Turk or Mongol? even though he was linguistically Turk but was of Mongol race with some Turkish admixture. Hazaras speak farsi, by your logic they should be considered Persians?. Frankly speaking history and lineage of Hazaras is unknown , it was not even known in medieval times, probably they are Persio-Mongols. The proper heirs of Mongol hordes in central asia, i.e Turko-Mongols Uzbegs, Arghuns, timurids etc, never recognized Hazaras as their own and equal, they must have reasons for it.

Timur was an Uzbek Turk, with I think his mother being a descendant of Temujin.

What do you mean they didn't recognize Hazaras as their own and equal? Lol nobody in Afghanistan goes well with each other. Do the Pashtuns go well with the Tajiks, Hazaras or Uzbeks? No.
Do the Tajiks go well with the Hazaras, Pashtuns or Uzbeks? No.
Do the Uzbeks go well with the Pashtuns, Tajiks or Hazaras? No.
Neither do the Hazaras go well with the Pashtuns, Uzbeks or the Tajiks.

Can I ask the Pakistani who keep talking about genetics and looks to stop posting about that in this Turco-Mongol military thread? Thanks.

Hey buddy, you started it, I was merely correcting your misassumptions and defending my people.

 

[BordoEnes]

@Yazp

Do you by any chance know about some books i can read specifically regarding Mongolian history?

 

[Samandri]

Now you can understand why most Turks considered Mongolians as cousin's or even blood brothers. The history between Turkic and Mongolian tribes are inter connected. Thats why alot of Turks consider Mongolian history part of Turkic history and Mongolians consider Turkic history as part of theirs.

History is fascinating isnt it

Where was that kinship and familiarity between Turks and Tatars, when Tatari emperor Timur destroyed Bayazid of the Ottomans?. From the primary sources of Turkic slave dynasty of India, it is evident that Mongol invaders were totally perceived as strange, weird looking , foriegn invaders rather than familiar blood brothers (they were first generation Turks from central asia). . In such scripts Mongols are described as "monstrous" looking, why they were calling Mongols monstrous and hideous looking if they were their blood brothers.?

 

[Yazp]

.

@Yazp

Do you by any chance know about some books i can read specifically regarding Mongolian history?

Indeed I do,
Here are a few good ones:
"Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World| by Jack Weatherford,
"Ghenghis Khan Life, Death and Resurrection" by John Man,
and none other than the Secret History of the Mongols by the Mongols themselves. It's less of a book and more of a log on important events.

There's one more, by a Frenchman. By far the best book i've read about the Mongols. I forgot his name though. Will update as soon as I find him

 

[atatwolf]

Hey buddy, you started it, I was merely correcting your misassumptions and defending my people.

Nobody is talking about genetics besides you. Can you stop your racist talks about Turks and Mongols in this military thread?

@Yazp

Do you by any chance know about some books i can read specifically regarding Mongolian history?

Watch this episode:

In terms of books I recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Genghis-Khan-Making-Modern-World/dp/1491513705