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Rebuilding Pakistan Navy Aviation.

here is my wish list of PN future aviation fleet.:D

or PAF/PN Gripen NG


or PN J-11 sea flanker
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PN JF-17


PN P-3C/ P-3C AEW


PN Saab-2000 MAP


PN/ PAF Saab-2000 Erieye


?PN P-8 ex-PIA 737?
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Who says Pakistan has a small coast line. Our coast line is around 800 kilometers long. Considering 200 kilometers EEZ the total area becomes considerable. Considering India it is small but not small that we can't have 12 aircrafts to operate.

By the way of these 12 P-3's being obtained I believe three shall have AEW suites rest ASW capabilities.
 
Who says Pakistan has a small coast line. Our coast line is around 800 kilometers long. Considering 200 kilometers EEZ the total area becomes considerable. Considering India it is small but not small that we can't have 12 aircrafts to operate.
You misunderstood me. I did not mean that the Pakistani coastline is small in absolute figures, i meant in relative terms with India. And neither am i questioning the need for PN to have 12 aircrafts or even 20 if they deem it necessary. I was merely commenting on the fact that PN is tasked with a relatively smaller coastline than India and they find it necessary to use 12 planes, whereas India with a larger coastline feels the need for only 8 LRMP's.
 
This may be a wish list but one must be pragmatic. How are we going to pay for all the fancy hardware? We don’t have money to pay for our daily needs (Trade deficit was $20-billion! in 2007-2008). Economy is on the way to a meltdown. Even Saudi deferred payment has not yet gone thru.

Even if we get a 'Wind fall' and manage to secure funds, Grippen is still out of bounds as it uses a US engine and US won’t allow the export of this plane to Pakistan with the US power plant.

No doubt the Navy is a very important service arm, we have to manage with whatever resources that can be spared for the PN and somehow make do.
 
This may be a wish list but one must be pragmatic. How are we going to pay for all the fancy hardware? We don’t have money to pay for our daily needs (Trade deficit was $20-billion! in 2007-2008). Economy is on the way to a meltdown. Even Saudi deferred payment has not yet gone thru.

Even if we get a 'Wind fall' and manage to secure funds, Grippen is still out of bounds as it uses a US engine and US won’t allow the export of this plane to Pakistan with the US power plant.

No doubt the Navy is a very important service arm, we have to manage with whatever resources that can be spared for the PN and somehow make do.

PN is 3rd on the totem-pole whether we like it or not! there is a lot of stuff in the pipeline so kindly lets be patient.
 
You misunderstood me. I did not mean that the Pakistani coastline is small in absolute figures, i meant in relative terms with India. And neither am i questioning the need for PN to have 12 aircrafts or even 20 if they deem it necessary. I was merely commenting on the fact that PN is tasked with a relatively smaller coastline than India and they find it necessary to use 12 planes, whereas India with a larger coastline feels the need for only 8 LRMP's.

india always has add-on orders e.g Hawk trainer!
 
This may be a wish list but one must be pragmatic. How are we going to pay for all the fancy hardware? We don’t have money to pay for our daily needs (Trade deficit was $20-billion! in 2007-2008). Economy is on the way to a meltdown. Even Saudi deferred payment has not yet gone thru.

Even if we get a 'Wind fall' and manage to secure funds, Grippen is still out of bounds as it uses a US engine and US won’t allow the export of this plane to Pakistan with the US power plant.

No doubt the Navy is a very important service arm, we have to manage with whatever resources that can be spared for the PN and somehow make do.

The transition of PN upgradation will not just happen in 2-3 years but will take time and its not fair to judge according to current economic situation. We already know that PN has a done deal for P-3 and AEW, JF-17 will replace aging fleet of PAF like Mirage-3/5 F-7 and A-5 meaning that 4 PN/PAF fighter squadron in Masroor will be upgraded with JF-17 and plus PN wishes to raise one independent squadron of new type MRCA. China has offered J-11s but i think PN may show interest in Chinese J-11 sea flankers. If pakistan's economy improves most likely that defence budget will rise and would prefer to add western technology.
Saab has reviled its new air borne systems based on Saab-2000 platform such as MPA, and SIGSTAR, Saab-2000 MPA is designed to operate together with the Saab 2000 ERIEYE but still have capability to operate independently. I think Saab-2000 MPA will be a perfect replacement for Atlantique, and fokker MPAs..
 
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Nice post, your information regarding PN aviation specially P-3 are very informative. So should we see PN after P-3 accusation as end state of PN accusation of maritime patrol air craft for next 2 decades? or will PN consider next generation MPA like SAAB-2000 MPA or Japanese P-X.. One set back of P-8 for PN is the prise tag of 737 platform and cost no less then 100 million dollars let alone MPA systems.. A very smart decision was made by PAF for its AEW&C platform over a jet platform and chose better SAAB-2000.

Is the P-3C acquisition the final MPA to be included within the PN NAA inventory you ask? That is not a question we could know the answer to at this point in time unfortunately. One can make a fair and intelligent assumption as to that being the case based on the information available today whilst not being privy to the PN future 20 year plan. But who know's what may happen in the future. With past US-Pakistani relationships having had their fair shares of up's and down's, we can only wait and watch to see if the remaining 5 P-3C's will be delivered.

The 2nd thing is that all 7 Orions need to be of the Update III+ modification. The two aircraft delivered last year do not feature this upgrade and will be returned to LMCO in due course to retrofitted to that standard. So currently PN has two aircraft of update II.75 tail numbers 81 and 82 delivered in 1996/97 (83 was lost in Sep 1999 with loss of all 21 crew) and two aircraft of update II.5/III delivered in 2007, tail numbers 84 and 85. The aircraft have been provided to PN to help 28 Sqn ramp up its personnel in readiness for absorbing all 7 update III+ aircraft which is a substantial increase in trained aircrew for the squadron. This project plan does make sense when you look at all the factors involved. Aircraft 81 and 82 will not be updated to Update III+ standard. The contract with LMCO/Ogma signed in 2004 was only for maintining the structural integrity of the aircraft. It did not cover any avionics upgrade, with the aircraft maintaining their avionics suite as per their original spec when rolled out from the factory line and outfitted to II.75 in 1990. This will be news to most people, certainley was for me when I heard this from LMCO (and not from the briefing by PRO PN)

At present there has no talk of retiring the F-27 aircraft in PN service and it is likely that 27Sqn will continue using this aircraft type. The F-27 aircraft in NAA service features both the MPA version as well as at least 1 for liason duties. Whilst the configuration of the aircraft can be changed quickly to offer a versatile fixed-wing platform, it does have its uses which will only complement the Orion in PN service. One example of this is para drops for SSGN a role which only three other aircraft can undertake in Pakistan; C-130 and CN-235 both in PAF service and PBN Islander in MSA service. The P-3's can also act as a control aircraft in guiding F-27's for ASuW operations as the MPA version is equipped to undertake that.

As for 29Sqn? No announcement has been made which talks about retiring the Br1150 Atlantic. Whilst it would make sense to do so after all the Orions have been delivered in their final configuration, it does bring to mind the question whether PN can afford to do so. Should sanctions be applied on the P-3 fleet any time in the future, the Atlantic is the only aircraft in PN service capable of offering anything resembling true MPA capabilities with the F-27 only supporting/complementing that role. Whilst the P-3's currently in PN service feature equipment-fit from 1990, the Atlantics however were upgraded in 1993-95 following contract signature with Thompson-CSF in 1993 and are still a potent MPA platform. However with a small fleet of 3 aircraft, the status of 29 Sqn and its aircraft composition may well be dictated by the financial disposition of the country's treasury in the short term, whilst inadvertently overlooking implications for the long term.

PN has made it hard in recent years for any journalists to visit PNS Mehran in order to write about NAA, so accurate and objective information is hard to come by, an example of this being the point made earlier as to PN only receiving 7 aircraft of Update III+, whilst the original two will remain II.75. But on the brighter side, Pakistani :pakistan: P-3C aircrew are still travelling to Jacksonville, USA:usflag: for training and Orion deliveries are still slated to be on track, so lets be optimistic.
 
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Who says Pakistan has a small coast line. Our coast line is around 800 kilometers long. Considering 200 kilometers EEZ the total area becomes considerable. Considering India it is small but not small that we can't have 12 aircrafts to operate.

By the way of these 12 P-3's being obtained I believe three shall have AEW suites rest ASW capabilities.

3 P-3Cs were purchased in the late 80's, one has been lost leaving 2 which are now fully operational after upgrade at PNS Mehran.

out of the 8 P-3C being provided under FMS, only 2 have been delivered so far which will again be sent back to the US for similar upgrades. the 6 remaining P-3Cs status is un-known as funds are being shifted back-and-forth. so for the moment the PN P-3C strength is 4.

The 5 P-3H AEW allocated under EDA are in limbo due to funds problem. so all-in-all not a very pretty picture.
 
3 P-3Cs were purchased in the late 80's, one has been lost leaving 2 which are now fully operational after upgrade at PNS Mehran.

out of the 8 P-3C being provided under FMS, only 2 have been delivered so far which will again be sent back to the US for similar upgrades. the 6 remaining P-3Cs status is un-known as funds are being shifted back-and-forth. so for the moment the PN P-3C strength is 4.

The 5 P-3H AEW allocated under EDA are in limbo due to funds problem. so all-in-all not a very pretty picture.
P-3 aircraft 81 and 82 originally delivered in 1996/97, were brought back into service recently. However the were not modified in any way. The aim of the flight restoration programme was to maintain the structural integrity of the aircraft and strictly no equipment upgrade.

Aircraft 84 and 85 delivered more recently are essentially flyable aircraft with limitations on their mission capability albeight without the final update III Plus configuration.

Rather than repeat everything, see my earlier post above
 
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Thx for the video of P-3 23march umm speaking in general i really dont think more then 2 sqn will be in PN maybe 3 if so i really think the understanding is such that PAF and PN really want to keep PAF incharge of the skies even at the coast line ! therefore the dream of these wish lists dont really come in play and will not mean anything i belive cuz the only sqn of fighter aircraft that will come on service with PN will be jf-17's yes perhaps other aicraft like P-3's ,choppers and unmanned uav's will play in part of the PN avaiton section plan there focous is more on there surfacefleet at sea and there sub fleet as it is very badly needed and they are working on just my thought plus some info and answers i gathered from my fam & famfriends in PN again just my thought i do hope and pray the best for PN !!
 
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