Rebuilding Pakistan Navy Aviation.

[Proud to be Pakistani]

I not said that you said that IN or IAF is aquiring MKIs...

Your Post:

Currently IN aviation is upgrading and Indian Air force southwestern air command will very soon place its MKI fleet, and multiple MRCA sqds. and its most likely that IN will place at least 2sqd of Super hornets, with 2-3 aircraft carriers!

Consider you post and logic!.... IAF will place MKI everywhere! MRCA not before 2015!
F-18 = MRCA if India wants F-18. 2-3 Carriers .... !

What are you thinking!

 

[vish]

Half of Sea Harrier fleet gone in 20 years​

16 crashes doesn't seem like a big number in 20 years, consider this: these crashes have wiped out half of the Indian Navy's Sea Harrier fleet of 30 aircraft. Seven pilots, among the most elite flyers at the Navy have lost their lives in these crashes. And, every crash has happened during fairly routine sorties, as the Harrier has never seen battle since being inducted in 1983.


International Institute for Strategic StudiesHalf of Sea Harrier fleet gone in 20 years

So India had 30 Harriers in Total and confirmed 16 crashes so they are left with 14 Only!.... Remains to be seen how operational they are?

As per my Info: 10 are the FRS 51 and 4 Trainers!

Not all crashes result in right offs. Further, fourteen aircraft were upgraded with Derby BVRAAMs. Does this number include the double-seat trainers? I don't think so.

Check the link:
Military Defence Equipment, Simulation and Training News - ETS-News.com

But this site mentions fifteen aircraft have been upgraded. I don't know where they got that number from.

BR also mentions 14 + 4 aircraft with 14 being upgraded.

I do agree that the IN's combat aviation arm is understrength though.

Further, we'll have to wait for the Naval-LCA to develop. 40 of these birds have been ordered. 16 Mig-29K (12 fighters + 4 trainers) have been ordered too, with an option of further 30 aircraft before 2015.

The F-18 thing isn't very credible.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I not said that you said that IN or IAF is aquiring MKIs...

Your Post:

Currently IN aviation is upgrading and Indian Air force southwestern air command will very soon place its MKI fleet, and multiple MRCA sqds. and its most likely that IN will place at least 2sqd of Super hornets, with 2-3 aircraft carriers!

Consider you post and logic!.... IAF will place MKI everywhere! MRCA not before 2015!
F-18 = MRCA if India wants F-18. 2-3 Carriers .... !

What are you thinking!

Now i have come to know that you can not understand the most simplest form of English.. so here... i will use some illustration with color full maps just for you to understand.....

IAF south western Air command


Airbase Pune - Lohegaon
Aircraft/Squadron
MKI--------Lightnings
-----------Rhinos
-----------?? ??
thats 3 SQD of MKI up-to-date!
Their primary role..
Air support for IN and maritime roles. Thus having hands off total air superiority over PAF southern air command!

2 Sukhoi-30 MkI combat jets for maritime roles. While the exact date of induction of the Su-30 MkIs in the naval scheme of things is not yet known, pilot of the Number 20 Squadron, which flies the Su-30 MkIs from Lohegaon base, told TNN: “Training is under way.”
New Sukhoi Su-30 MKI Squadron To Be Stationed At Lohegaon Base, Pune

Currently IAF has about 17 sqd of mix old MIG fleet and this is likely to be replaced by even more capable MRCA then MKI! so expect 7-10 sqd of new MRCA stationed in IAF South western air command in 10 years! With another 3 sqds on IN aircraft carriers...



only one PAF air base in southern air command!
and that equipped with old 60s upgraded mirages III and V..

So this is my point that i am trying to make here..

 

[Inception-06]

Now i have come to know that you can not understand the most simplest form of English.. so here... i will use some illustration with color full maps just for you to understand.....

IAF south western Air command


Airbase Pune - Lohegaon
Aircraft/Squadron
MKI--------Lightnings
-----------Rhinos
-----------?? ??
thats 3 SQD of MKI up-to-date!
Their primary role..
Air support for IN and maritime roles. Thus having hands off total air superiority over PAF southern air command!

2 Sukhoi-30 MkI combat jets for maritime roles. While the exact date of induction of the Su-30 MkIs in the naval scheme of things is not yet known, pilot of the Number 20 Squadron, which flies the Su-30 MkIs from Lohegaon base, told TNN: “Training is under way.”
New Sukhoi Su-30 MKI Squadron To Be Stationed At Lohegaon Base, Pune

Currently IAF has about 17 sqd of mix old MIG fleet and this is likely to be replaced by even more capable MRCA then MKI! so expect 7-10 sqd of new MRCA stationed in IAF South western air command in 10 years! With another 3 sqds on IN aircraft carriers...



only one PAF air base in southern air command!
and that equipped with old 60s upgraded mirages III and V..

So this is my point that i am trying to make here..

good really good...-->(+ P3C-Orion, F-27 Fokker and Bregaut Atlantic do not forget this Fleet....!)

 

[Keysersoze]

Time out for the bickering please

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Boeing identifies 14 nations for P-8A exports
By Andrew Doyle

Boeing sees an export market for "about 100 P-8 derivatives" with countries that operate the Lockheed P-3 Orion or similar aircraft and are "looking for a long-range maritime patrol, maybe multi-mission, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance-capable platform," says Egan Greenstein, the company's senior manager P-8A business development.

"Some we're talking to directly, some we're talking to in support of the US Navy's foreign military sales, but there are about 14 countries that are interested or have a current capability that they need to replace in the next 10 years," he says. The target nations are Argentina, Australia, Canada, Chile, Greece, India, Italy, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Portugal, South Korea, Spain and Thailand.

Boeing is negotiating a direct commercial sale of eight P-8As to India to meet its requirement for an interim long-range maritime reconnaisance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft.

_______________________

one may ask... is it worth spending a billion dollars for 8 ex-USN P-3 with less then 15-20 years of service life?

 

[lindsyebanks]

Currently PN is not considering the P-8A for the inventory in view of the fact that they will be taking in P-3's over the course of the next few years. Whilst Boeing may well hold exploratory discussions with perspective clients incluidng PN, the P-3's being acquired by the latter are slated to provide service for a substantial period of time as is evidenced by the Atlantic's, which have soldiered on for more than 3 decades. Although the P-3 aircraft PN is in the process of acquiring are used airframes, they will undergo a complete restructuring program as part of the SDLM to enable them to fly for 25 years at least and ideally more. Any replacement aircraft will figure after that timeline in the PN acquisition time-table. Further more and perhaps more relevantly in the context of this discussion, PN like a lot of MPA operators has a preference fro a turbo-prop aircraft versus turbo jet. although TOT is quicker for the latter, a slower moving aircraft makes for a better SSK/SSN hunter killer as it can spend more time over the target.

It has to be born in mind that the P-3C update III+ are being provided to PN free of charge as part of US FMS to Pakistan. Unless a similar option is provided for the P-8A's in the near future, PN would be hard pressed to justify procurment of the P-8A even if the service would like to acquire the aircraft. At present with the large acquisition program PN is undertaking with F-22P FFG's, SSK's, FAC, Z-9 helo's, additional FFG of type not yet designated, FMS funded P-3C's would be an attractive choice.

In additon to 28 Sqn, PN will raise at least one and possibly more P-3C squadrons once all the P-3's have been delivered. A decesion in this regard has not been announced. Nor has any decision been made nor reports heard of the outcome of any delivery of P-3 AEW equipped with the Hawkeye 2000 system, but hopefully that will still happen.

Rgds

 

[fatman17]

Boeing identifies 14 nations for P-8A exports
By Andrew Doyle

Boeing sees an export market for "about 100 P-8 derivatives" with countries that operate the Lockheed P-3 Orion or similar aircraft and are "looking for a long-range maritime patrol, maybe multi-mission, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance-capable platform," says Egan Greenstein, the company's senior manager P-8A business development.

"Some we're talking to directly, some we're talking to in support of the US Navy's foreign military sales, but there are about 14 countries that are interested or have a current capability that they need to replace in the next 10 years," he says. The target nations are Argentina, Australia, Canada, Chile, Greece, India, Italy, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Portugal, South Korea, Spain and Thailand.

Boeing is negotiating a direct commercial sale of eight P-8As to India to meet its requirement for an interim long-range maritime reconnaisance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft.

_______________________

one may ask... is it worth spending a billion dollars for 8 ex-USN P-3 with less then 15-20 years of service life?[/QUOTE]

they (P-3Cs) were purchased under FMS credits so in my opinion are a very good deal for the PN.
let the P-8A develop and then lets see what happens.

 

[Contrarian]

What I find weird is that even though Pakistan has a small coastline it has or plans to have around 12 P-3C's, while India with a bloody huge coastline plans to get only 8 P-8I to replace the old 8 Tu somethings...

 

[Keysersoze]

What I find weird is that even though Pakistan has a small coastline it has or plans to have around 12 P-3C's, while India with a bloody huge coastline plans to get only 8 P-8I to replace the old 8 Tu somethings...

What's weird? The fact that the PN will have 12 or that India is only ordering 8?

 

[Contrarian]

What's weird? The fact that the PN will have 12 or that India is only ordering 8?

That India is ordering only eight. That Pakistan feels the need to have around 12 platforms while India thinks only 8 are required for all their needs! And this is when the IN now wants 'domain awareness' or something of the sort, i forget the term they used.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Currently PN is not considering the P-8A for the inventory in view of the fact that they will be taking in P-3's over the course of the next few years. Whilst Boeing may well hold exploratory discussions with perspective clients incluidng PN, the P-3's being acquired by the latter are slated to provide service for a substantial period of time as is evidenced by the Atlantic's, which have soldiered on for more than 3 decades. Although the P-3 aircraft PN is in the process of acquiring are used airframes, they will undergo a complete restructuring program as part of the SDLM to enable them to fly for 25 years at least and ideally more. Any replacement aircraft will figure after that timeline in the PN acquisition time-table. Further more and perhaps more relevantly in the context of this discussion, PN like a lot of MPA operators has a preference fro a turbo-prop aircraft versus turbo jet. although TOT is quicker for the latter, a slower moving aircraft makes for a better SSK/SSN hunter killer as it can spend more time over the target.

It has to be born in mind that the P-3C update III+ are being provided to PN free of charge as part of US FMS to Pakistan. Unless a similar option is provided for the P-8A's in the near future, PN would be hard pressed to justify procurment of the P-8A even if the service would like to acquire the aircraft. At present with the large acquisition program PN is undertaking with F-22P FFG's, SSK's, FAC, Z-9 helo's, additional FFG of type not yet designated, FMS funded P-3C's would be an attractive choice.

In additon to 28 Sqn, PN will raise at least one and possibly more P-3C squadrons once all the P-3's have been delivered. A decesion in this regard has not been announced. Nor has any decision been made nor reports heard of the outcome of any delivery of P-3 AEW equipped with the Hawkeye 2000 system, but hopefully that will still happen.

Rgds

Nice post, your information regarding PN aviation specially P-3 are very informative. So should we see PN after P-3 accusation as end state of PN accusation of maritime patrol air craft for next 2 decades? or will PN consider next generation MPA like SAAB-2000 MPA or Japanese P-X.. One set back of P-8 for PN is the prise tag of 737 platform and cost no less then 100 million dollars let alone MPA systems.. A very smart decision was made by PAF for its AEW&C platform over a jet platform and chose better SAAB-2000.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

That India is ordering only eight. That Pakistan feels the need to have around 12 platforms while India thinks only 8 are required for all their needs! And this is when the IN now wants 'domain awareness' or something of the sort, i forget the term they used.

I dont think india will stick with only 8 MPAs, you have to wait and see what other MPA they chose to supplement P-8s..

 

[nitesh]

I dont think india will stick with only 8 MPAs, you have to wait and see what other MPA they chose to supplement P-8s..

Yup you are right, meanwhile this might be a good read in this context:
India’s Navy Holding Maritime Patrol Aircraft Competition (updated)

 

[Myth_buster_1]

here is my wish list of PN future aviation fleet.

or PAF/PN Gripen NG


or PN J-11 sea flanker

PN JF-17


PN P-3C/ P-3C AEW


PN Saab-2000 MAP


PN/ PAF Saab-2000 Erieye


?PN P-8 on ex-PIA 737?