Real story of Kargil war

[fd24]

This thread still up and running

Yes bro - we won the Kargil war 3 times and the Indians have won it 3 times - its been great fun. Where you been yaar - you missed all the fun....

 

[53fd]

At the end of the day, India suffered heavier (casualties + injuries) figures than Pakistan, despite having 6 times the troops strength. And they also lost Peak 5353 to Pakistan, which is the highest peak in the area, & of great strategic importance, which they tried to recapture many times post 1999, but failed every time. This is how critical Peak 5353 is:

Standing tall and dominating the famous Tiger Hill on the Line of Control (LoC) is a grim reminder of the Kargil war. Point 5353, the highest peak in the region which has a clear view of the National Highway 1 D, remains occupied by Pakistan even a decade after the battle.

While the point is clearly on the Indian side of the LoC, it remains in Pakistani control which has fortified it with reinforced bunkers and has even built a special road nearby to carry up supplies for soldiers.

The Indian Army, which made several unsuccessful attempts to occupy the post after the Kargil war, has since given up the post as “untenable” given the geography of the region that makes it fairly easy for Pakistani troops to climb.

What makes Point 5353 so valuable for the two armies is that it has a clear view of the national highway that connects the Kashmir valley with Kargil. The main reason the Army retaliated hard to the Pakistani intrusion in 1999 was that disruption of traffic on the road would cut off supplies to Ladakh and the Siachen glacier.

While officers say that Point 5353 is surrounded by three Indian posts, including Point 5240 and any action from there would be neutralised, the fact remains that artillery observers from the post can easily direct fire on a 25 km stretch of the national highway.

Besides, the most dominating feature in the region has a clear view of the Tiger Hill and surrounding areas. Sources say Pakistan has constructed concrete bunkers at the location and have a special supply base on their side of the LoC that has substantial reinforcements.

Several attempts to dislodge Pakistani troops from the posts with the help of artillery fire remained unsuccessful till action became impossible after the 2003 ceasefire. The Army has since given up the option of retaking the post in the larger interest of peace in the area.

Even a decade after the war and several revelations by Pakistani officers that the main aim of the intrusion was to cut off the strategic Drass-Kargil highway so that supplies to Siachen would dry up, the road remains under the threat of enemy fire. Besides Drass and Point 5353, several other stretches of the road at places like Kaksar are under Pakistani observation.

While a lot of papers were moved after the Army said that an alternative all-weather road to Leh and Siachen is urgently required, work on the ground remains extremely slow. Efforts are on to make the Manali-Leh highway into an all-weather road but even the most positive estimates say the strategic tunnel at Rohtang pass will take at least seven more years to complete.

Supplies for Leh and the Siachen glacier follow two basic routes — through the Rohtang pass on the Manali-Leh highway or through the Zojila pass on the Srinagar-Leh highway 1 D. While the 13,000 feet Rohtang pass remains cut off longer in winters, the 11,500 feet Zojila pass generally opens earlier and is used to carry supplies for Army units.

What is worrisome is that even after a decade of the Kargil war, highway 1 D remains under the threat of being cut off by enemy fire.

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied - Indian Express

Bilwa, I mean Bilal, do you want me to post videos of your soldiers telling us how Indians kept advancing and recapturing our posts... of course it was not fully accomplished as before that your honorable prime minister ran to uncle Bill. Now those videos are very humiliating... so don't tempt me with your extremely stupid spins. Find something else to soothe your ego.

They recaptured them after the Pakistan troops had started retreating, when Sharif was summoned by the Clinton administration; and he buckled under pressure from the Clinton administration, asking the forces to retreat.

Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee stood firm on India's demand for unconditional withdrawal of Pakistani troops and his then counterpart Nawaz Sharif buckled to Washington's dictat.

Vajpayee stood firm during Kargil conflict: Clinton aide - The Times of India

 

[LiberalAtheist]

the truth of the Kargil war is right here and this is by a Pakistani general

http://shaukatqadir.info/pdfs/Kargil.pdf

 

[Bhairava]

Actually, it doesn't prove it to be false:

Stop your spin..Show me where India requested America to mediate ?

You cant. Because it did not happen.

America and Pakistan were both afraid for their won reasons about the possibillity of India crossing the LoC. Americans then summoned Mian to DC, gave him a nice dressing down and ordered him to vacate the troops.

But he had no authority/command over them and they were only evacuated when India ran over the occupied posts and they either killed in action or ran with tails between their legs.

Regarding the victory..I had already explained by this part :

If I occupy your house when you are out of town and you beat me out of it after returning..then its not "stalemate" for me..It's fcking loosing for me.

Anyway I dont wish to waste time on this....even Pakistani analysts commentators have made Kargil the example of military blunders and some people never agree whatever you say.

Have a good day !

 

[53fd]

Stop your spin..Show me where India requested America to mediate ?

Sure.

Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee stood firm on India's demand for unconditional withdrawal of Pakistani troops and his then counterpart Nawaz Sharif buckled to Washington's dictat.

Vajpayee stood firm during Kargil conflict: Clinton aide - The Times of India

 

[Bhairava]

At the end of the day, India suffered heavier (casualties + injuries) figures than Pakistan, despite having 6 times the troops strength. And they also lost Peak 5353 to Pakistan, which is the highest peak in the area, & of great strategic importance, which they tried to recapture many times post 1999, but failed every time. This is how critical Peak 5353 is:

So critical that you cant ever fire accurate artillery fire from it...

Interestingly, however, the 16 Grenadiers' records on the Point 5353 assault refer to Point 5353 as "a minor objective." So too, do entries in Col. Oberoi's confidential service records. This assessment was vindicated during the artillery clashes in 2001-2002,when the Pakistani observation posts on Point 5353 were unable to bring accurate fire to bear on either the highway or nearby Indian positions. The Indian troops were able to tie down the Pakistani position with accurate fire, rendering it near-impossible for its superior altitude to be used to good effect.

And the price for that critical peak - 700+ soldiers, thousands of mujaheddin, international credibility, democracy.....

Sure.

Indian demand to Pakistan..

*Alas*

Read and understand it properly.

 

[53fd]

the truth of the Kargil war is right here and this is by a Pakistani general

http://shaukatqadir.info/pdfs/Kargil.pdf

Or you can look at the truth about the Kargil war by the very (Indian) general who was leading the Indian troops:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ost-kargil-lieutenant-general-kishan-pal.html

 

[Bhairava]

Anyway I dont want to go back on my word...Just because some online fanbois say something it doesnt mean Kargil was a victory for Pakistan and most of the Pakistanis know that too and some like Sahukat Qadir, Kaiser tufail, Kassan Nissar etc have explicity admitted do

So Ciao.

But before going

Kargil War - Pakistani Army surrenders and accepts bodies - YouTube

 

[blackops]

just leave the old horse "kargil" alone for gods sake

Anyway I dont want to go back on my word...Just because some online fanbois say something it doesnt mean Kargil was a victory for Pakistan and most of the Pakistanis know that too and some like Sahukat Qadir, Kaiser tufail, Kassan Nissar etc have explicity admitted do

So Ciao.

But before going

Kargil War - Pakistani Army surrenders and accepts bodies - YouTube

very sad to see these loss of lives on both side

 

[53fd]

And the price for that critical peak - 700+ soldiers, thousands of mujaheddin, international credibility, democracy.....

Critical peak, because India tried to recapture it repeatedly post 1999, but failed to do so. And at the end of the day, India suffered heavier (casualties + injuries) figures than Pakistan, despite having 6 times the troops strength of Pakistan.

Indian demand to Pakistan..

*Alas*

Read and understand it properly.

Yes, India pressured the US to threaten Pakistan, because they couldn't do it themselves. They even refused to attend a meeting, in an effort to gain the sympathy of the US, to act against Pakistan:

Clinton had invited Vajpayee to Washington for a face-to-face meeting with Sharif but the Indian Prime Minister had declined to undertake the visit in view of the then security situation.

Clinton had informed Vajpayee after intensive parleys with Sharif in Washington in early July 1999 that he was "holding firm on demanding the withdrawal of Pakistani troops to the Line of Control."

Vajpayee stood firm during Kargil conflict: Clinton aide - The Times of India

 

[notsuperstitious]

You know what when Bilal posts rupeenews articles they seem more credible automatically by comparison.

Since we are doing bilalesque mindless repetitions, let me add

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Army lost 2,700 military personnel in the Kargil conflict, far higher than its casualties during the 1965 and 1971 wars with India, former Pakistan prime minister Nawaz Sharif has said in his memoirs.

"I inquired (from Musharraf) were you not aware that this kind of bombing could take place. Musharraf said, 'Sir, we were not aware of it,'" Sharif said adding he was told the Indian artillery bombardment was so extensive that it blew off the heads of Pakistan soldiers hiding in trenches.
Musharraf told Sharif that because the trenches did not have covers, the soldiers were directly exposed to artillery fire.

"Let me tell you by the time when the Washington deal took place, the Indians had already recaptured half of the peaks and were advancing further. I protected the Pakistan Army's honour or they would have been left with nothing," Sharif said.

The perfectly explains Vajpayee's stand that we were going to go on till we captured all the peaks. That stand was communicated to US when we refused to meet, the same stand that bilal is now desperately trying to spin LOL. Bilal stop cutting such a sorry picture.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/repor...s-during-kargil-conflict-nawaz-sharif_1039940

 

[Secur]

So Ciao.

But before going

So accepting bodies is now considered surrender by the Indians ? ... Fancy Youtube videos captions aren't worth much here ... You will be running pants down if i start to play this game here ... If i go by this logic , how many times the Indians have surrendered to Pakistan ?

 

[Moorkh]

I beg to disagree. Kargil was the beginning of the process. For the first time, Kargil did not see Uncle breathing down India's neck and India falling into line. Rather India did exactly the opposite, it simply upped the ante and pulled it off. Uncle (and nearly everybody else who mattered) told Pakistan to come down, they did not push for a 'cease-fire' which India would have thumbed its nose at anyway. That was the 'big difference'. That was among the diplomatic achievements (among others like 1971 etc.) that India got in its bag. What you describe is the closing of the process. Don't get taken in by the change of terminology, that is a mere technicality.

And there will be no going back.

i agree about the bold part.

my assertion is that india and pakistan were kept hyphenated because both the countries kept bringing the other into the scene. the animosity between the two was like a constant reminder to the diplomatic community that these two countries were to be hyphenated. India kept whining about what pakistan was doing and trying outdo it. the pakistanis kindly responded in kind. anyone trying to get anything with one country had to keep in mind the other's response. whenever a head of state came to india or pakistan, he/she had to visit the other to placate it.

it was when india scaled down and tried not to comment on everything pakistan did that the world started to dehyphenate us. the nuclear deal with the US was the first instance of this dehyphenation and it took place much much after kargil.

we didnt thumb our noses at US in kargil. they were on our side as wsa pretty much the rest of the world. 1971 and other events pre 1990 should not really be considered here as we had the soviets on our side then. US wasnt going to start a nuclear war to teach us a lesson.

 

[53fd]

You know what when Bilal posts rupeenews articles they seem more credible automatically by comparison.

Since we are doing bilalesque mindless repetitions, let me add

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Army lost 2,700 military personnel in the Kargil conflict, far higher than its casualties during the 1965 and 1971 wars with India, former Pakistan prime minister Nawaz Sharif has said in his memoirs.

"Let me tell you by the time when the Washington deal took place, the Indians had already recaptured half of the peaks and were advancing further. I protected the Pakistan Army's honour or they would have been left with nothing," Sharif said.

Of course Nawaz Sharif would like to show the war as a failure, to make himself look like a savior. The ground facts were different. The Army says 453 troops were killed. The best estimate from impartial sources show that 696 Pakistani soldiers were killed, & 665 injured; whereas 524 Indian soldiers were killed, & 1396 injured.

1999 Kargil Conflict

 

[Moorkh]

In terms of land:

1999 was a stalemate, as India recaptured its lost territory from Pakistan only through the persuasion of the US against Pakistan.

In terms of troops:

1999 war:

Indian troop strength: 30,000
Pakistan troop strength: 5000

Indian troops losses: 527
Pakistan troops losses: 626

India's injuries figures: 1,363 wounded
Pakistan's injuries figures: 665 wounded

i m going to act like a smartass and quote clausewitz here.

War is the continuation of Politik by other means

so what were the political ambitions of the PA when it started these hostilities?
were they achieved?
what was the cost?
did the costs justify the political gains?

these are the things that really matter. it doesnt matter that the indian army outnumbered the pakistany forced 10000:1 or had help from martians. at the end of the day pakistan did not gain and the status quo was re-established, something the indians were aiming for.