Ready or not, Japan wants to buy the Pentagon’s controversial Osprey aircraft

[BoQ77]

Quad TiltRotor (QTR) aircraft development contract awarded
By Mike Hanlon

September 23, 2005

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Quad TiltRotor (QTR) aircraft development contract awarded

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September 24, 2005 The team of Bell Helicopter and Boeing has been awarded a $3.45 million contract by the U.S. Army to perform conceptual design and analysis of its Quad TiltRotor (QTR) aircraft for the Joint Heavy Lift (JHL) Program. "The Bell Boeing team is exceptionally pleased to have been one of the teams chosen by the Joint Service Team to take the first step in providing a truly transformational vertical lift cargo aircraft," said Mike Redenbaugh, chief executive officer of Bell Helicopter. "The critical need for long range, high speed, heavy lift without access to runways is being highlighted around the world every day."

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"We view this as an important first step toward defining the next generation of high-speed, heavy-lift rotorcraft," said Ron Prosser, Boeing Phantom Works vice president and general manager of Integrated Defense Advanced Systems. "This Bell Boeing effort is a great opportunity to demonstrate the utility of cutting edge technology in meeting joint service needs."

Bell Boeing's QTR is an evolutionary application of its tiltrotor technology utilized in the V-22 Osprey. The QTR is a tandem-wing, four-proprotor aircraft with a large cargo fuselage and a rear-loading ramp. Four turboshaft engines, each mounted in one of four tilting wingtip nacelles, power the proprotors through interconnected transmissions for redundancy.

The QTR design will be sized, refined and analyzed over the next 18 months to determine program requirements and feasibility of further development. Bell Helicopter , a subsidiary of Textron Inc., is a leading producer of commercial and military helicopters and the pioneer of the revolutionary tiltrotor aircraft.
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Bell developed its model D-322 as a quad tiltrotor concept in 1979. The Bell Boeing team disclosed in 1999 a Quad TiltRotor design the companies had been investigating for the previous two years. The design was for a C-130-size V/STOL transport for the US Army's Future Transport Rotorcraft program and would have 50% commonality with the V-22. This design was to have a maximum takeoff weight of 100,000 lb (45,000 kg) with a payload of up to 25,000 lb (11,000 kg) in a hover.[2][3] The design was downsized to be more V-22-based and to have a payload of 18,000 to 20,000 lb (8,200 to 9,100 kg). This version was referred to as "V-44".[2][4] Bell received contracts to study related technologies in 2000. Development was not pursued by the US Department of Defense.[2]

During 2000-06, studies of the aerodynamics and performance of a Quad Tilt Rotor were conducted at the University of Maryland, College Park. This effort was initially funded by NASA/AFDD and subsequently by Bell. An experimental investigation in helicopter mode with ground effect found that it was possible to reduce the download on the aircraft from 10% of the total thrust to an upload of 10% of the thrust.[5] A parallel Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) study confirmed these findings.[6]

Joint Heavy Lift studies
In September 2005 Bell and Boeing received a cost-sharing contract worth US$3.45 million from the U.S. Army's Aviation Applied Technology Directorate for an 18-month conceptual design and analysis study lasting through March 2007, in conjunction with the Joint Heavy Lift program.[7][8] The contract was awarded to Bell Helicopter, which is teaming with Boeing's Phantom Works. The QTR study is one of five designs; another of the five is also a Boeing program, an advanced version of the CH-47 Chinook.[1]

During the initial baseline design study, Bell's engineers are designing the wing, engine and rotor, while the Boeing team is designing the fuselage and internal systems.[9] A similar arrangement is used on the V-22

 

[BoQ77]

xunzi

do you know why my wife choose this hand blender over cheap China design blender ?
because it's durable and smooth operation

Hi Chinese friends, could you tell us, what are current aircraft carriers of China operating ?

 

[Phukimak]

xunzi

do you know why my wife choose this hand blender over cheap China design blender ?
because it's durable and smooth operation

Hi Chinese friends, could you tell us, what are current aircraft carriers of China operating ?

I doubt your wife can afford it....



Back to topic : good for japan, osprey have a bright future to replace old controversial helicopter

 

[gambit]

Who care if it travel faster if it has "tiny payload and carry only 24 troops" and the distance to the island from China and Japan main land is short? If we land just one hovercraft, that is equivalent of you landing 41 Ospreys. The key to occupy an island is how many troops you can put and equivalent you can drop there and the speed. Osprey has the speed advantage while we have the payload and troop scale advantage.

Only clueless Internet Chinese would say 'Who care'.

Now how is the tilt rotor inferior to the helo -- overall ?

LOL! My American friend, never say never to us. If we want to do something, we will. Right now, we are "experimenting". We don't even know this type of design is feasible because of its less compact and risky design. The Osprey is not exactly a safe bet, which is why the US sold it. However, expect 2015 for a prototype from us. This is our friendly response! LOL

Yeah...Am sure you are speaking from extensive personal experience in aviation -- as an airline passenger.

 

[BoQ77]

I doubt your wife can afford it....



Back to topic : good for japan, osprey have a bright future to replace old controversial helicopter

Phukimak: change 1 of 2 flag to China pls.
Don't guess : we used Braun blenders for nearly 10 years. Ours made in Spain.

Every electrical items Made in China we know spend alot of electricity and went to break in short time.
We enjoy 1 of our Hitachi refridgerator for over 30 years, buy 2nd one Hitachi because we need more volume only, the second one lasted for nearly 10 years without any problem, still like new. Better quality than Russian made.

We love V-22 Osprey too, but Vietnam still under embargo of lethal weapon from USA, which is lifted soon this year.

With its combat radius range of over 700km, we could reach our Spratly islands from our coasts within 90 mins and back.

 

[Phukimak]

Phukimak: change 1 of 2 flag to China pls.
Don't guess : we used Braun blenders for nearly 10 years. Ours made in Spain.

Every electrical items Made in China we know spend alot of electricity and went to break in short time.
We enjoy 1 of our Hitachi refridgerator for over 30 years, buy 2nd one Hitachi because we need more volume only, the second one lasted for nearly 10 years without any problem, still like new. Better quality than Russian made.

We love V-22 Osprey too, but Vietnam still under embargo of lethal weapon from USA, which is lifted soon this year.

Well, I didn't know back in 30 years ago.. You guys have electricity..

 

[BoQ77]

Well, I didn't know back in 30 years ago.. You guys have electricity..

My parents bought our first Sanyo TV at the same time with my birthday, means nearly 40 years ago. Vietnam first nuclear reactor supplied by USA in 1962. using HEU ...

Am I wrong to say, Vietnam will be the first country of ASEAN build nuclear powerplant ?

 

[gambit]

Please stop joking that we wish we build a "twin-tilt rotor". Why should we settle for "twin" when we could built a "quad-tilt rotor" that can lift 20-tons, 2,000 miles range, 500 miles radius, and cruise at 280mph called "The Blue Whale"?

It is funny and made you look stupid that you brought on this speculative Chinese quad tilt rotor after you said this...

The two wings make it less compact for helicopter duty.

In a quad tilt rotor design, the rear wings (for the rear rotors) must be longer than the front wings because of prop wash...

Slipstream - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spiral slipstream (also known as spiraling slipstream, propwash in the US, or just slipstream in the UK) is a spiral-shaped slipstream formed behind a rotating propeller on an aircraft.

In other words, the spiraling slipstreams from the front rotors will negatively affect the performance of the rear rotors to the point where the aircraft would not fly forward at all.

If we are to take that image seriously, we can say that the Chinese quad tilt rotors is already a flawed design because the rear rotors are still will within the slipstreams area created by the front rotors.

This is what a prop wash look like...

Now try to imagine a rotor behind. The aircraft would shake so hard it would fall out of the sky the moment the rotors are tilted to fly forward.

So is there a formula to say how much wider must the rear wings be than the front ? Absolutely. See if you can find a Chinese aerospace engineer working on the Chinese quad tilt rotors to tell you what is that formula. Good luck.

This is why it is so entertaining debating technical issues with clueless Internet Chinese like yourself. You guys are full of your own egos. You are too arrogant to admit you have limited knowledge and experience but that you think what little you know is enough. Even worse, you cannot keep track of your own arguments. You criticize the American tilt rotors as too wide but then brought on the Chinese design whose wings are even wider, not to mention flawed.

 

[BoQ77]

this is the side view of Blue Whale

Blue Whale is among the most innovative – and risky – designs on the drawing board as Chinese engineers try to build the world’s fastest helicopter.

The country’s engineers and scientists accomplished much of this by adapting and applying technologies developed elsewhere. Now, they are looking to break new ground altogether by building the fastest helicopters in the world.

Among the most ambitious of such aircraft in the works is the four-rotor “Blue Whale”, a project by the China Helicopter Research and Development Institute. By tilting its four rotors from a horizontal to vertical position, the helicopter promises to reach speeds of more than 700km/h – which would make it the fastest “tiltrotor” in the world, 40 per cent faster than Boeing’s V-22 Osprey, according to the institute.

With a cruising speed of 538km/h, developers say the Blue Whale will lift 20 tonnes of cargo and fly more than 3,100 kilometres without refuelling. It will fly as high as 8,600 metres, also higher than the V-22.

Qiu Guangrong, a director of the institute, told the Global Times last year the group hoped to produce functioning prototypes of its high-speed helicopter within the next five years, although he did not specify which models would be the first produced.

Even today, most conventional helicopters are not suited for speeds exceeding 200 km/h. Above certain speeds, airflow between blades can throw the aircraft off balance. Huge stresses are also placed on engines and mechanical parts, which can fail or break apart.

Over the decades, helicopter designers have tried numerous solutions to break the speed barrier. The twin rotors on Boeing’s CH-47 Chinook, for instance, spin in opposite directions to cancel out each other’s turbulence. The experimental Eurocopter X3, which has a conventional rotor plus twin propelling rotors on fixed wings, reached 486km/h in June.

Tiltrotors like the Blue Whale have rotor pods – called nacelles – mounted on fixed wings. The rotors provide lift in the horizontal position and forward thrust in the vertical position once the craft is airborne.

The government has provided a huge amount of support for the country’s high-speed helicopter projects, which is closely tied to the People’s LiberationArmy’s efforts to build a more modern, mobile military.

In a visit to the institute this month, Lin Zuoming, head of Aviation Industry Corporation of China, the institute’s parent body and the nation’s biggest state-owned aerospace manufacturer, told researchers that “all eyes are on the helicopter industry” which offers “unprecedented opportunities”.

“Enemies are at the gate,” he was quoted on the institute’s website as saying. “Factories and research institutes must … rely on the government’s support to catch up and overtake the world’s best.”

But some doubt whether the institute will be able to produce a functioning prototype of the Blue Whale within its five-year window. The four-rotor design creates its own unique problems, chief among them how to compensate for the turbulence placed on the rear rotors by the front rotors during flight.

“When the Blue Whale is rolled out depends on when these problems are solved,” said Professor Chen Ming , an expert on helicopter design atBeihang University in Beijing. “To me the future is very uncertain.” Chen and several other mainland helicopter experts declined to comment on the project as it involved classified military technology.

Some in the industry also doubt whether China even needs to develop high-speed helicopters while it is still struggling to catch up with developed nations in conventional helicopters.

The weakness of domestic helicopters was exposed during rescue efforts after the Sichuan earthquake in 2008. The PLA sent its most advanced helicopters to the area, but television footage showed that the bulk of the rescue work was carried out by Black Hawk helicoptersimported from the US in the 1980s.

Less advanced domestic helicopters proved incapable of operating at high altitude.

The Blue Whale could play vital role in such situations, although the institute said it is being developed mainly for military applications so ‘theChinese army and navy can achieve ‘all-terrain reach’.”

 

[BoQ77]

MA60 Xian would be example for how a China design fixed rotor aircraft operate
Surprise that China is giving out this aircraft for free to Papua New Guine airline for experiments.

This could be considered as a failed effort to replace Boeing or Airbus air passenger

 

[Basel]

@gambit can these V-22s be used as AWACS & MPA if yes then they can be game changer for many nations, because countries like Pakistan may be able to afford medium size helicopter carrier with V-22 and possibly F-35Bs to project power at sea in future.

 

[BoQ77]

At this moment, I'm not sure China has any available carrier could spare room for this powerful bird, after their lonely Liaoning down for maintenance. Japan has 3.

 

[xunzi]

It is funny and made you look stupid that you brought on this speculative Chinese quad tilt rotor after you said this...



In a quad tilt rotor design, the rear wings (for the rear rotors) must be longer than the front wings because of prop wash...

Slipstream - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In other words, the spiraling slipstreams from the front rotors will negatively affect the performance of the rear rotors to the point where the aircraft would not fly forward at all.

If we are to take that image seriously, we can say that the Chinese quad tilt rotors is already a flawed design because the rear rotors are still will within the slipstreams area created by the front rotors.

This is what a prop wash look like...

Now try to imagine a rotor behind. The aircraft would shake so hard it would fall out of the sky the moment the rotors are tilted to fly forward.

So is there a formula to say how much wider must the rear wings be than the front ? Absolutely. See if you can find a Chinese aerospace engineer working on the Chinese quad tilt rotors to tell you what is that

This is why it is so entertaining debating technical issues with clueless Internet Chinese like yourself. You guys are full of your own egos. You are too arrogant to admit you have limited knowledge and experience but that you think what little you know is enough. Even worse, you cannot keep track of your own arguments. You criticize the American tilt rotors as too wide but then brought on the Chinese design whose wings are even wider, not to mention flawed.

You look stupid as always. First questioning whether we have the ability to make 5th gen aircraft and now questioning our tilt-rotor helicopter? Put your money where your big mouth is and bet against us! We said we would make a prototype within the next 5 years. This is our promise to our American friend. LOL

Last, my friend, the design is flaw in general whether it's 2 or 4 rotors. However we believe we can overcome this which is why we are still experimenting. It is classified project and we don't need to talk much about it. Wait until we show you in the next few years.. If we can't make a quad-rotor fly, then come back and talk to me.

MA60 Xian would be example for how a China design fixed rotor aircraft operate
Surprise that China is giving out this aircraft for free to Papua New Guine airline for experiments.

This could be considered as a failed effort to replace Boeing or Airbus air passenger

Rest assure, we won't produce this. LOL

 

[BoQ77]

Ah yes, China also should not copy their flawed design of QTR.

 

[Phukimak]

You look stupid as always. First questioning whether we have the ability to make 5th gen aircraft and now questioning our tilt-rotor helicopter? Put your money where your big mouth is and bet against us! We said we would make a prototype within the next 5 years. This is our promise to our American friend. LOL

Last, my friend, the design is flaw in general whether it's 2 or 4 rotors. However we believe we can overcome this which is why we are still experimenting. It is classified project and we don't need to talk much about it. Wait until we show you in the next few years.. If we can't make a quad-rotor fly, then come back and talk to me.


Rest assure, we won't produce this. LOL

The second picture, is that osprey?