Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[Imran Khan]

Yesterday Gen. Kiyani met Hillary and i believe he would have told her that If you don't want your American soldiers in Afghanistan to live than please act like a good boy, thus this development.

you are wrong gen.kiyani never talk much hallry bash bash bash and when she tired gen take one cigarette smoke and look to her face.then she understand what kiyani is saying . gen kiyani think HAR BAT KA JAWAB DENA ZAROORI NHI HOTA

 

[tallboy123]

Washington, Feb 9 (PTI) Stepping up pressure on Pakistan, US lawmakers have threatened to cut massive aid to the country unless it frees an American diplomat detained over shadowy killing of two Pakistanis.
The tough message that the US aid may be in jeopardy was delivered to Pakistan Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani by three top Congressmen during their just concluded trip to Pakistan and Afghanistan.
The warning by lawmakers came amid media reports that US Administration has warned Islamabad that high level dialogue would be at risk unless the US embassy staffer Raymond Davis was released.
The Congressmen Howard "Buck" McKeon who heads the House Armed Services Committee, John Kline, Chairman Education and Labour Committee and Silvestre Reyes, the senior Democrat on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence told Gilani that Islamabad should release the diplomat as certainly there was a possibility that "there would be repercussions if they don''t".
"During the meeting with the Prime Minister, the delegation pressed (Yusuf Raza) Gillani on the potential long-term implications to the US-Pakistani strategic relationship if the US diplomat detained in Lahore is not released," said Kline.
The influential Republican Congressman Kline told the Pakistan Prime Minister "it is possible that a member of Congress could come up with amendments to cut funding for Pakistan based on the detention of Davis".
The delegation also met the powerful Chief of the Army General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.
"The delegation pressed Prime Minister Gillani on the potential long-term implications to the US-Pakistani strategic relationship if the Pakistani government does not release US diplomat Raymond Davis, who is currently detained by authorities in Lahore," Reyes said.
Talking to reporters here, McKeon said the delegation indicated it could very well be that the US might consider withholding funding.


US lawmakers warn to cut off aid to Pakistan -  International News

 

[Spring Onion]

already discussed.


its good they should cut it off because only Zardari govt and a blue eyed NGO is getting the aid not army neither the people of Pakistan

 

[Solomon2]

Once again you are avoiding the issue and deflecting debate. The central issue is the double murder, not diplomatic immunity.

No. Pakistan doesn't even have the right to hold a person with diplomatic immunity for questioning or investigation. It could request a country waive immunity for a diplomat, but cannot continue to hold him while such a request is pending.

If the situation were reversed and a Pakistani diplomat shot two Americans in the back, do you really think the US would let the guy walk free?

If the context of events was the same, very likely, yet in the U.S. armed motorcyclist-robbers aren't among the dangers in life one looks out for. The diplomat might not be expelled, though it's likely his own embassy would remove him from the country for its own reasons.

Obviously there won't be an exact script, but precedent has been set by the US courts DECIDING upon immunity. That too Diplomatic Immunity.

No. As the article points out, the State Dept. decides. In a civil suit you can attempt to sue anybody for anything; I could claim you murdered my parents before they were born and try to take you to civil court to seek compensation. That doesn't mean I'd have the right to keep you in jail while a preliminary investigation is in progress to verify my groundless claims, nor that the court would decide such a meaningless case.

If he is lying about being Raymond Davis then the question of immunity doesn't even arise.

No. Remember, under international law it isn't up to the individual to decide whether he can drop immunity or not so it sticks to him no matter what name he chooses to use.

“We continue to express to them the importance of resolving this. And we continue to express to them the fact that our U.S. diplomat has diplomatic immunity and should be released,” he added.

So the official U.S. approach is to be patronizing: Pakistanis are a bunch of ignorant bumblers and need to be taught the meaning Pakistan's duties regarding diplomatic immunity. That may be true of the Pakistanis on this forum, but can be no excuse for Pakistan's Foreign Office; it's not like Pakistan was born last month.

But the new, kill-the-law-abiding-governor-and-celebrate Pakistan was. Every day, Pakistani officials are challenged to uphold rule-by-law rather than rule-by-will, and it seems every day they fail; as one writer put it, Pakistan is "no country for brave men". If Davis remains in prison because Pakistanis refuse to uphold the law, how can Pakistanis claim to be civilized?

 

[Imran Khan]

we dont need beg and aid we need head of killer

 

[cross1993]

Shameless American.
Threaten other countries with the assistance! Extraterritoriality is an aggression of other countries.

 

[Developereo]

No. Pakistan doesn't even have the right to hold a person with diplomatic immunity for questioning or investigation. It could request a country waive immunity for a diplomat, but cannot continue to hold him while such a request is pending.

I don't know what the law is when the suspect is considered a flight risk -- especially while the status of his diplomatic immunity is being determined.

If the context of events was the same, very likely, yet in the U.S. armed motorcyclist-robbers aren't among the dangers in life one looks out for.

Let's say the foreign diplomat wandered into Watts (California) or a bad part of Washington, DC. People do walk around with AK-47s and Uzis in the open. I know this for a fact. A very relevant question would be what he was doing in such an area in a car with illegal plates and even more illegal weapons. There is no way the US would let the person go without trial if he had just killed two people.

 

[Solomon2]

we dont need beg and aid we need head of killer

Have you and your countrymen fallen so far from civilization into barbarism that the only courses of action you can think of are begging or killing?

I don't know what the law is when the suspect is considered a flight risk -- especially while the status of his diplomatic immunity is being determined.

Davis' diplomatic immunity isn't "being determined". The U.S. knows what it is and Pakistan's FO too - but the FO says they'll only tell this to the court! Definitely a violation of international law on the part of Pakistan.

A very relevant question would be what he was doing in such an area in a car with illegal plates and even more illegal weapons.

I can't recall the last time the firearms thing happened in the U.S. That's probably because most firearms are legal here. In either case all that can be done is to expel the diplomat. (Well, the police can issue a traffic ticket for the plates but can't compel collection.)

There is no way the US would let the person go without trial if he had just killed two people.

It's quite possible. In a real sense the country that sent the diplomat bears the blame, not the diplomat himself - and the diplomat can't be used as a punching bag, not unless the sending country waives immunity.

 

[ajtr]

Have you and your countrymen fallen so far from civilization into barbarism that the only courses of action you can think of are begging or killing?

Davis' diplomatic immunity isn't "being determined". The U.S. knows what it is and Pakistan's FO too - but the FO says they'll only tell this to the court! Definitely a violation of international law on the part of Pakistan.

I can't recall the last time the firearms thing happened in the U.S. That's probably because most firearms are legal here. In either case all that can be done is to expel the diplomat. (Well, the police can issue a traffic ticket for the plates but can't compel collection.)

It's quite possible. In a real sense the country that sent the diplomat bears the blame, not the diplomat himself - and the diplomat can't be used as a punching bag, not unless the sending country waives immunity.

Raymond Davis's case is in court.court will decide his fate wether diplomat or not.BTW how morally correct usa is in protecting its own agent david headley being involved in 26/11.In case of david headley usa gave the reasoning about the usa laws etc. now ur own man is pakistani court facing double murder charge why usa govt is arm twisting pak govt. to by pass its courts.

 

[W.11]

I am an American journalist and have done some investigating into the case. You can read my article in Counterpunch at counterpunch.org exposing the fact that Raymond Davis's company, Hyperion-Protective Consultants, is a front--it's address is a vacant storefront in a deserted shopping mall, and the rental agent says it has never been rented to such a company. You can see a Google Earth photo of the empty mall on my newspaper's website at This Can't Be Happening | A news collective, founded as a blog in 2004, covering war, politics, environment, economy, culture and all the madness

I would be very much interested in hearing more about your contact with a police source who gave such detail about the arrest.

Thank you.
Dave Lindorff
dlindorff@mindspring.com
ThisCantBeHappening

hello, this reminds me of fahrenheit 9/11 conspiracy, dude get a life..

 

[Solomon2]

Raymond Davis's case is in court.court will decide his fate wether diplomat or not.

Under international law Pakistan's Foreign Office has jurisdiction and cannot refer to the courts!

 

[Imran Khan]

Under international law Pakistan's Foreign Office has jurisdiction and cannot refer to the courts!

go to hell international law which is for poors onlysame go to hell US and WOT . we need our sovereignty and freedom back

 

[kugga]

Under international law Pakistan's Foreign Office has jurisdiction and cannot refer to the courts!

this is what international law says buddy



Article 41
Personal inviolability of consular of icers

1. Consular officers shall not be liable to arrest or detention pending trial, except in the case of agrave crime and pursuant to a decision by the competent judicial authority.

2. Except in the case specified in paragraph 1 of this article, consular officers shall not be
committed to prison or be liable to any other form of restriction on their personal freedom save in
execution of a judicial decision of final effect.

3. If criminal proceedings are instituted against a consular officer, he must appear before the
competent authorities. Nevertheless, the proceedings shall be conducted with the respect due to him by
reason of his official position and, except in the case specified in paragraph 1 of this article, in a manner
which will hamper the exercise of consular functions as little as possible. When, in the circumstances
mentioned in paragraph 1 of this article, it has become necessary to detain a consular officer, the
proceedings against him shall be instituted with the minimum of delay.


And the person in discussion does not seem to be even a counselor officer he's said to be a counselor employee.

 

[Solomon2]

this is what international law says buddy Article 41 Personal inviolability of consular -

You are quoting from the wrong treaty. Davis' immunity is diplomatic, not consular, a status that isn't in doubt but that the F.O. is fudging by refusing to admit, save to a Pakistani court upon demand. A totally illegal procedure under international law.

 

[kugga]

You are quoting from the wrong treaty. Davis' immunity is diplomatic, not consular, a status that isn't in doubt but that the F.O. is fudging by refusing to admit, save to a Pakistani court upon demand. A totally illegal procedure under international law.

Ok now tell which is the category for Raymond davis among the given two definitions written in Vienna Convention


(d) “consular officer” means any person, including the head of a consular post, entrusted in that capacity with the exercise of consular functions;
(e) “consular employee” means any person employed in the administrative or technical service of a consular post;