Rare video: Bangladeshi freedom fighters are taking oath in 1971

[Hyperion]

Mate, you need some serious introspection. Not everything in our history is kosher, specially 1971 and events that led to it.

Was it our fault that Bangalis were the least educated and poor region ? Or the fact the they only produced jute and hurricanes/floods? And yeah we weren't filthy rich either... But Ayub and his successors did alot of East Pak.

 

[extra terrestrial]

Just go through Brian Cloughely's book on the Pakistan Army to see for yourself how the British virtually stopped recruitment from Bengal after the 1857 Mutiny and amongst the Muslims tilted it heavily in favor of the Punjabis & Pukhtoons. I don't have the book with me right now so I can't quote the exact figures but at the end of WW2 the ratio of Bengalis to Punjabis and Pukhtoons in the Army wasn't even worthy of mentioning.

The same was the case with the Civil Services and much more so in fact because the Hindu Bengalis were more represented in the Civil Services than the Muslim Bengal and most of them left for East-Bengal at the time of the Partition. I can't seem to remember the name of the author or the name of the book either for that matter but a year or two ago I read a book written by the guy who started the Civil Services of Pakistan and he detailed, with generously well-referenced figures, of how lop-sided the Bengali representation in the Civil Services were at the time of the Partition and how ironically enough it was during Ayub Khan's ministry when Bengalis were inducted in the Civil Services and the Army on an accelerated basis by relaxing the standards for them.

And this, by the way, was happening in a developing country where a myriad other grievances and problems remained unsolved.

So try to look at it from a more panoramic view instead of in such a vacuum; so less Bengalis in the Army baaad....baaad West-Pakistani !

There was a reason why they were so less and it wasn't because of the undying hatred of the West-Pakistani towards the Bengali !

What you said is true but some things need to be added:

* British stopped recruiting Bengali soldiers as they were the most rebellious against the government among all ethnicities, while the communities who were loyal to the British Empire, were being preferred in the Armed forces. (so called martial race theory)
* Bengali Hindus were the most progressive community in the British India, while Bengali Muslims, initially abandoning the British education system, became backward, hence the civil cervices in Bengal were dominated by Hindus. However, in comparison with other Muslim communities of the subcontinent, Bengali Muslims were probably more progressive. Pakistan inherited only two universities from the British Empire, one being Dhaka University and other being Punjab University in Lahore. Besides, East Bengal had more educational institutions than other Muslim dominated regions. It proves that there were no dearth of educated people who could held the civil positions in East Pakistan. But the government always preferred the Biharis and Muhajirs over Bengalis due to their fluency in Urdu in the civil services. It was also one of the reasons behind the language movement.

Anyway, the main reason behind the agitation was the economic disparity.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Mate, you need some serious introspection. Not everything in our history is kosher, specially 1971 and events that led to it.

Read to books on 71... Talked to guys involved in that war(One of my relatives was a Capt who served fought in 71..(Was hit by arty shrapnels and spent years as a POW).... Sarmila Bose? Sissoun and Leo?

 

[Hyperion]

Whatever you said, I can corroborate from people who were in highest echelons of civil service at that time and during that era. Having said that, very few people here (from Pakistan) will agree with you, as most never had access to such information, they have been force fed sequence of events that the consecutive governments wished to, through history books.

What you said is true but some things need to be added:

* British stopped recruiting Bengali soldiers as they were the most rebellious against the government among all ethnicities, while the communities who were loyal to the British Empire, were being preferred in the Armed forces. (so called martial race theory)
* Bengali Hindus were the most progressive community in the British India, while Bengali Muslims, initially abandoning the British education system, became backward, hence the civil cervices in Bengal were dominated by Hindus. However, in comparison with other Muslim communities of the subcontinent, Bengali Muslims were probably more progressive. Pakistan inherited only two universities from the British Empire, one being Dhaka University and other being Punjab University in Lahore. Besides, East Bengal had more educational institutions than other Muslim dominated regions. It proves that there were no dearth of educated people who could held the civil positions in East Pakistan. But the government always preferred the Biharis and Muhajirs over Bengalis due to their fluency in Urdu in the civil services. It was also one of the reasons behind the language movement.

Anyway, the main reason behind the agitation was the economic disparity.

 

[Hyperion]

I had relatives that you couldn't count on your fingers of hand and feet active in that war. At the same time, in civil service and at the center. Don't need any additional information. Whatever they, the Bengalis did, we did ten folds before that. Don't shrink the whole thing to 1971. Causality much?

Read to books on 71... Talked to guys involved in that war(One of my relatives was a Capt who served fought in 71..(Was hit by arty shrapnels and spent years as a POW).... Sarmila Bose? Sissoun and Leo?

 

[JonAsad]

Ordinary people with guns- hallmark of the terrorists-

Imagine such armed ordinary joes in Indian occupied kashmir taking oath for their freedom - Indian would go mad and what not- including @janon - your definitions of freedom fighters and terrorist will too tremble- Hypocrites -

 

[Armstrong]

I'm not absolving Mujib of anything, however, I don't need books to tell me what my elders can. I have enough raw data to make an informed choice, and I made mine long time ago. And I say this after Bengalis wanted to kill my dad and mom, majority of my uncles fought in that war, one was even seriously injured. So, why would I say the things that I say?

Bhai keh muuun par chappair maaar diii !

 

[Hyperion]

Nahi meri jan. Truth hurts sometimes. I don't want us to ever repeat 71, we should learn from our past mistakes. That's all that I want from this debate.

Bhai keh muuun par chappair maaar diii !

 

[extra terrestrial]

Whatever you said, I can corroborate from people who were in highest echelons of civil service at that time and during that era. Having said that, very few people here (from Pakistan) will agree with you, as most never had access to such information, they have been force fed sequence of events that the consecutive governments wished to, through history books.

That's no surprise, West Pakistanis had no clue about what was happening in the East. I even heard people in West Pakistan were simply unaware that there was a war going on in East Pakistan even as late as November. I guess, if they had known the exact situation, things would have been different as the authoritarian government would have been forced to hand over the power to the true representatives of Pakistan through a combined uprising in both East and West.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I had relatives that you couldn't count on your fingers of hand and feet active in that war. At the same time, in civil service and at the center. Don't need any additional information. Whatever they, the Bengalis did, we did ten folds before that. Don't shrink the whole thing to 1971. Causality much?

Yeah buddy I know .... Your family owns half the country ..(kaam brag kiya Karo)... (Not every other guys is a muzara of yours)

As for 10 folds.. Yeah I'm sure Pak bribes Sarmila n Leo n Sissoun (whose books provide the most authentic and detailed view of 71 war .. Collected through thorough research and data collection)....

It's been like 4 decades an we have yet to see a single shred of evidence proving even 3 lac casualties much less than the casually quoted figure of 3 bloody million.. Or how about digging those so called mass graves containing thousands of bodies??? Science has advance a lot .. I bet those pesky science geeks can easily find those thousands of bodies?

 

[Kompromat]

@Pakistani Exile

Its time to let it go brothers. The whole fault wasn't ours. Our paths with the people of that land shall never cross again. We were descimated, but we stood up, healed our injuries and our past. Its time to go past the past and to march to the future by ourselves, for ourselves. Lets never commit to anyone ever again but ourselves.

 

[janon]

Ordinary people with guns- hallmark of the terrorists-

Imagine such armed ordinary joes in Indian occupied kashmir taking oath for their freedom - Indian would go mad and what not- including @janon - your definitions of freedom fighters and terrorist will too tremble- Hypocrites -

Freedom fighting by definition is done in one's own land. Pakistani punjabi lashkars "freedom fighting" in Indian Kashmir is an absurdity. And most fighters in Indian Kashmir today come from across the border.

There is quite a difference between random acts of violence and proper armed struggle that builds a new nation. Yes, Kashmiris taking oath in a nation of Kashmir would indeed surprise me - because I know that that's not going to happen. Occasional fidayeen acts cannot give birth to new nations.

The Mukti Bahini was an organized fighting force raised and trained by RAW, but belonging to their own land, and they honourably fought their oppressors and created a new nation for their people. If and when Kashmiris do smoething like that, wake me up.

 

[haviZsultan]

What you said is true but some things need to be added:

* British stopped recruiting Bengali soldiers as they were the most rebellious against the government among all ethnicities, while the communities who were loyal to the British Empire, were being preferred in the Armed forces. (so called martial race theory)
* Bengali Hindus were the most progressive community in the British India, while Bengali Muslims, initially abandoning the British education system, became backward, hence the civil cervices in Bengal were dominated by Hindus. However, in comparison with other Muslim communities of the subcontinent, Bengali Muslims were probably more progressive. Pakistan inherited only two universities from the British Empire, one being Dhaka University and other being Punjab University in Lahore. Besides, East Bengal had more educational institutions than other Muslim dominated regions. It proves that there were no dearth of educated people who could held the civil positions in East Pakistan. But the government always preferred the Biharis and Muhajirs over Bengalis due to their fluency in Urdu in the civil services. It was also one of the reasons behind the language movement.

Anyway, the main reason behind the agitation was the economic disparity.

You are absolutely right. Urdu speakers are part of the reason we lost Bengal. Arrogant and eager to impose their language over others. Who was it most beneficial for that urdu be imposed on the entire population? Thats right and theres only one answer. Only one community benefited from such legislation. If only (so-called) muhajirs had allowed the Bengalis to have their language things could possibly have been different.

Sadly today Muhajirs have made a joke out of themselves and genuinely support a man like Altaf Hussain.

Personally however I would like to add, it wasn't Jinnah's fault what happened against Bengal. Jinnah clearly thought that Urdu was a neutral language because till then the speakers of urdu had not formed an ethnic group of their own. It was also expected that these dumb "muhajirs" would integrate within the communities as they mingled, for example they would become sindhis in sindh, balochis in balochistan and punjabis in Punjab etc. This did not happen.

Unfortunately we threw Jinnah's vision away and started voting for a man who called the partition the biggest blunder in the history of Pakistan. My grand pa from my mothers side, if he was alive would have broken his ugly, fat jaw the moment he saw that speech.

Personally I don't count myself as an urdu speaker, or now even a Pashtun because I want to be known as a Pakistani, but I beg you to accept my apology. There is no reason Pakistan and Bengal shouldn't have been one.

 

[Hyperion]

Dude, you are very sentimental! You need to calm down and read my comments again. You can't shrink history to 1971, having that said, what the Bengalis did, during the war, or how it was thrust upon us wasn't the right thing to do either. You, on the other hand, are free to believe whatever you wish. That's your right.

Yeah buddy I know .... Your family owns half the country ..(kaam brag kiya Karo)... (Not every other guys is a muzara of yours)

As for 10 folds.. Yeah I'm sure Pak bribes Sarmila n Leo n Sissoun (whose books provide the most authentic and detailed view of 71 war .. Collected through thorough research and data collection)....

It's been like 4 decades an we have yet to see a single shred of evidence proving even 3 lac casualties much less than the casually quoted figure of 3 bloody million.. Or how about digging those so called mass graves containing thousands of bodies??? Science has advance a lot .. I bet those pesky science geeks can easily find those thousands of bodies?

 

[Armstrong]

What you said is true but some things need to be added:

* British stopped recruiting Bengali soldiers as they were the most rebellious against the government among all ethnicities, while the communities who were loyal to the British Empire, were being preferred in the Armed forces. (so called martial race theory)
* Bengali Hindus were the most progressive community in the British India, while Bengali Muslims, initially abandoning the British education system, became backward, hence the civil cervices in Bengal were dominated by Hindus. However, in comparison with other Muslim communities of the subcontinent, Bengali Muslims were probably more progressive. Pakistan inherited only two universities from the British Empire, one being Dhaka University and other being Punjab University in Lahore. Besides, East Bengal had more educational institutions than other Muslim dominated regions. It proves that there were no dearth of educated people who could held the civil positions in East Pakistan. But the government always preferred the Biharis and Muhajirs over Bengalis due to their fluency in Urdu in the civil services. It was also one of the reasons behind the language movement.

Anyway, the main reason behind the agitation was the economic disparity.

(1) For whatever reason the British stopped recruitment from East-Pakistan; what was the end result ? Much....much...much less Bengalis in the newly created Pakistan Army when compared with the Punjabis and the Pukhoons.

It takes time to overcome this differences and that too in a developing country where rarely anything goes according to plan.

(2) Not likely because the urban population of West-Pakistan was 33% of the total population in '47 while it stood at about 1/6th that at 5% for East-Pakistan (Seth, K., Economic prospects of Bangla Desh (Trimurti Publications, NewDelhi, 1972).

And that my friend is the reason why that that the initial 5 year and 10 year plan benefited West-Pakistan more than East-Pakistan because those plans were 'industrialization' oriented and if you've got 95% of your population living in the rural areas, as was the case with East-Pakistan, what are you going to industrialize ?