What's new

Rare Glimpse of Dogfight above LOC

The direction of sunrise is east not north east because Pakistan is not below equator but above equator.

https://midcdmz.nrel.gov/solpos/solpos.html

upload_2019-3-17_13-39-0.png


Produces

Date, Time, Zenith (refracted), Azimuth angle, Elevation (ETR), Elevation (refracted)

2/27/2019, 10:00:00, 52.8493, 136.0299, 37.1290, 37.1507
 
. .
First of all, I have tried to stay silent on this topic per Kaiser Tufail's general advice to not share analysis. But now, the forum is becoming completely full of misleading information by @MastanKhan who is cashing in on the opportunity to spread misinformation. Since the admins seem to be giving free reign to him, I have to counter this garbage with solid evidence.

In the immediate aftermath of the incident, a video was uploaded from which I took the following screen grab:

View attachment 546969

Let us establish a few facts. This is around the LoC on 27th of Feb, when the direction of sunrise is NE. The first aircraft and its contrail are illuminated directly by the sun, which means the camera is pointing due north. The contrail on the first aircraft matches that of F-16, whereas the extremely compact second contrail hints at a high speed (perhaps Mach 4) highly maneuverable missile, although I could be completely wrong here.

This is what I remember from the video. The compact contrail suddenly takes a high-G turn to the left, and explodes. The high-G turn seems to be similar to a super-maneuverability turn using TVC by the Flanker. The first aircraft then gains altitude and heads due north - a signature move of F-16 pilots.

The engagement, the position of the aircraft, all are hinting towards a merge after a BVR engagement. Let us recall that once an initial BVR exchange has taken place, both aircrafts will engage in a turning fight, trying to stay perpendicular to the enemy radar, while closing the distance. The picture seems to show a distance of 10-20 km between the aircrafts.

I could be very wrong about the second contrail being a missile, but I fail to find the example of a fighter that produces such a compact trail for such a distance.

But the main point is exactly that WVR is not dead. Not by a long shot. People disseminating misinformation on the forum should be taken to task for crass dishonesty.

@gambit I would appreciate if you could correct any glaring mistakes I have made in this analysis.

you need to expand more on possibilities with edits to the picture and sequence it mroe... will highly appreciate your thoughts in a flow with depiction of the shots here..
 
.
@CriticalThought bro if that get is sukoi30mki and those jets are so close to converge into a dog fight no matter how good the pilot of Pakistani jet is, one thing is for sure that in such close dog fight sukoi30mki will always have the upper hand because of it high angle of attack and thrust vectoring. Indian Su30mki was a BVR kill the dog fight you have is of mig21bison and jf-17.
 
.
First of all, I have tried to stay silent on this topic per Kaiser Tufail's general advice to not share analysis. But now, the forum is becoming completely full of misleading information by @MastanKhan who is cashing in on the opportunity to spread misinformation. Since the admins seem to be giving free reign to him, I have to counter this garbage with solid evidence.

In the immediate aftermath of the incident, a video was uploaded from which I took the following screen grab:

View attachment 546969

Let us establish a few facts. This is around the LoC on 27th of Feb, when the direction of sunrise is NE. The first aircraft and its contrail are illuminated directly by the sun, which means the camera is pointing due north. The contrail on the first aircraft matches that of F-16, whereas the extremely compact second contrail hints at a high speed (perhaps Mach 4) highly maneuverable missile, although I could be completely wrong here.

This is what I remember from the video. The compact contrail suddenly takes a high-G turn to the left, and explodes. The high-G turn seems to be similar to a super-maneuverability turn using TVC by the Flanker. The first aircraft then gains altitude and heads due north - a signature move of F-16 pilots.

The engagement, the position of the aircraft, all are hinting towards a merge after a BVR engagement. Let us recall that once an initial BVR exchange has taken place, both aircrafts will engage in a turning fight, trying to stay perpendicular to the enemy radar, while closing the distance. The picture seems to show a distance of 10-20 km between the aircrafts.

I could be very wrong about the second contrail being a missile, but I fail to find the example of a fighter that produces such a compact trail for such a distance.

But the main point is exactly that WVR is not dead. Not by a long shot. People disseminating misinformation on the forum should be taken to task for crass dishonesty.

@gambit I would appreciate if you could correct any glaring mistakes I have made in this analysis.
Is not dead for simple reason. Both aircarfts if move head on will be in WVR very quickly within minutes
 
.
@CriticalThought bro if that get is sukoi30mki and those jets are so close to converge into a dog fight no matter how good the pilot of Pakistani jet is, one thing is for sure that in such close dog fight sukoi30mki will always have the upper hand because of it high angle of attack and thrust vectoring. Indian Su30mki was a BVR kill the dog fight you have is of mig21bison and jf-17.


U are right WVR is.mig 21 tactic any way...
 
. .
Would be interesting to know if F-16 was carrying 2 x Aim-9 and 4 x Aim-120 ... or ... 4 x Aim-9 and 2 x Aim-120.
 
.
Comments from the same video say it's an indian parachute
You can find lots things with wrong with that tweet.

BTW I don't ascribe to the national colour parachute theory. If Indians are giving their pilots parachutes sporting the national colours of India then that is really dumb of them
 
Last edited:
.
@CriticalThought bro if that get is sukoi30mki and those jets are so close to converge into a dog fight no matter how good the pilot of Pakistani jet is, one thing is for sure that in such close dog fight sukoi30mki will always have the upper hand because of it high angle of attack and thrust vectoring. Indian Su30mki was a BVR kill the dog fight you have is of mig21bison and jf-17.
on wvr against the su30 with tvc, not necessarily. Recall that the su30mki went up against f15s and f22s of the usaf during red flag, the americans made a total fool out of the su30mkis and their tvc during close wvr combat.

You can find lots things with wrong with that tweet.

BTW I don't ascribe to the national colour parachute theory. If Indians are giving their pilots flags sporting the national colours of India then that is really dumb of them

no, that is done on purpose I think due to one of the many many useless and boring geneva conventions, think its to recognize the side the pilot belongs to in case he is burnt beyond recognition, the idea being that maybe a part of the parachute would survive during either bailout or burnout.
 
. . . . . .

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom