Rare Glimpse of Dogfight above LOC

[SQ8]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indian-deceptive-coercion.602373/#post-11178147

It would be interesting to see what EW system transfers occurred to India in the past decade as those fly on their jets.

 

[Yaseen1]

first part of video seems both jets are in dog fight near end of video smoke seems to be of missile fired as missile changes its path like snake as evident from smoke

 

[Champion_Usmani]

First of all, I have tried to stay silent on this topic per Kaiser Tufail's general advice to not share analysis. But now, the forum is becoming completely full of misleading information by @MastanKhan who is cashing in on the opportunity to spread misinformation. Since the admins seem to be giving free reign to him, I have to counter this garbage with solid evidence.

In the immediate aftermath of the incident, a video was uploaded from which I took the following screen grab:

View attachment 546969

Let us establish a few facts. This is around the LoC on 27th of Feb, when the direction of sunrise is NE. The first aircraft and its contrail are illuminated directly by the sun, which means the camera is pointing due north. The contrail on the first aircraft matches that of F-16, whereas the extremely compact second contrail hints at a high speed (perhaps Mach 4) highly maneuverable missile, although I could be completely wrong here.

This is what I remember from the video. The compact contrail suddenly takes a high-G turn to the left, and explodes. The high-G turn seems to be similar to a super-maneuverability turn using TVC by the Flanker. The first aircraft then gains altitude and heads due north - a signature move of F-16 pilots.

The engagement, the position of the aircraft, all are hinting towards a merge after a BVR engagement. Let us recall that once an initial BVR exchange has taken place, both aircrafts will engage in a turning fight, trying to stay perpendicular to the enemy radar, while closing the distance. The picture seems to show a distance of 10-20 km between the aircrafts.

I could be very wrong about the second contrail being a missile, but I fail to find the example of a fighter that produces such a compact trail for such a distance.

But the main point is exactly that WVR is not dead. Not by a long shot. People disseminating misinformation on the forum should be taken to task for crass dishonesty.

@gambit I would appreciate if you could correct any glaring mistakes I have made in this analysis.

Can you please provide the video?

Comments from the same video say it's an indian parachute...
View attachment 546976

Kindly provide the video link bro.

Whatever emissions we picked up may be analyzed and located but I fear that this “victory” may go into the heads of PAF superiors and pilots if they let it.


In summation, we did good- but lets not celebrate excessively lest we do exactly what our enemy does.

Agreed. We must remain calm in victory (and its just a partial victory), and try to find out any errors (if any), in order to correct them.

Plus analyse whole episode thoroughly. In addition we must not forget, that at the night of 26th Feb Indian aircrafts were able to violate our airspace for 4 long minutes, why our Sam systems remain silent, is still a mystery, So PAF and our air defence planners must concentrate, at all these things, rectify the gaps in our defence and actively work to remove them.

 

[alee92nawaz]

First of all, I have tried to stay silent on this topic per Kaiser Tufail's general advice to not share analysis. But now, the forum is becoming completely full of misleading information by @MastanKhan who is cashing in on the opportunity to spread misinformation. Since the admins seem to be giving free reign to him, I have to counter this garbage with solid evidence.

In the immediate aftermath of the incident, a video was uploaded from which I took the following screen grab:

View attachment 546969

Let us establish a few facts. This is around the LoC on 27th of Feb, when the direction of sunrise is NE. The first aircraft and its contrail are illuminated directly by the sun, which means the camera is pointing due north. The contrail on the first aircraft matches that of F-16, whereas the extremely compact second contrail hints at a high speed (perhaps Mach 4) highly maneuverable missile, although I could be completely wrong here.

This is what I remember from the video. The compact contrail suddenly takes a high-G turn to the left, and explodes. The high-G turn seems to be similar to a super-maneuverability turn using TVC by the Flanker. The first aircraft then gains altitude and heads due north - a signature move of F-16 pilots.

The engagement, the position of the aircraft, all are hinting towards a merge after a BVR engagement. Let us recall that once an initial BVR exchange has taken place, both aircrafts will engage in a turning fight, trying to stay perpendicular to the enemy radar, while closing the distance. The picture seems to show a distance of 10-20 km between the aircrafts.

I could be very wrong about the second contrail being a missile, but I fail to find the example of a fighter that produces such a compact trail for such a distance.

But the main point is exactly that WVR is not dead. Not by a long shot. People disseminating misinformation on the forum should be taken to task for crass dishonesty.

@gambit I would appreciate if you could correct any glaring mistakes I have made in this analysis.

So you are saying F-16 tried to shot down a sukhoi?

 

[CriticalThought]

Can you please provide the video?


Kindly provide the video link bro.



Agreed. We must remain calm in victory (and its just a partial victory), and try to find out any errors (if any), in order to correct them.

Plus analyse whole episode thoroughly. In addition we must not forget, that at the night of 26th Feb Indian aircrafts were able to violate our airspace for 4 long minutes, why our Sam systems remain silent, is still a mystery, So PAF and our air defence planners must concentrate, at all these things, rectify the gaps in our defence and actively work to remove them.

Apologies, as I stated previously, I don't have the entire video.

So you are saying F-16 tried to shot down a sukhoi?

I have presented events as I remember from the video, and I have tried to put together an interpretation.

 

[raja786]

Here is another alleged video:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1101196235787124736

I know this lingo very well, made by Pakistan side of Kashmir. Lingo is shensa side further up from Dadyal. Very close to indian borders loc.

 

[alee92nawaz]

Apologies, as I stated previously, I don't have the entire video.



I have presented events as I remember from the video, and I have tried to put together an interpretation.

In 2 lines please explain. I am confused. Are you saying we lost an F-16? Because i am sure F-16s were used in the encounter. That i have no doubt abot

 

[raja786]

In 2 lines please explain. I am confused. Are you saying we lost an F-16? Because i am sure F-16s were used in the encounter. That i have no doubt abot

Oh please don't use your imagination. If the F-16 was downed it would have been all over the net by now. Secondly we don't know just believe what official claim is. Don't spread rumours.

 

[slapshot]

In 2 lines please explain. I am confused. Are you saying we lost an F-16? Because i am sure F-16s were used in the encounter. That i have no doubt abot

In simple words what he wanted to say that F-16 used a WVR missile to shoot down a flanker.

 

[raja786]

In video fight took place over Indian side of loc. Guy who made video claims it's missiles most likely a bvr engagement. I don't know where this high altitude dog fight scenario is building up. Don't cut and paste photos from video. If you look in full video the direction of missiles states they are coming from Pakistan side, you can easily come to that conclusion by the shadows of people in the video.

 

[Windjammer]

The image in OP is no video grab, it appeared on twitter soon after the 27th Feb, dogfight.
However here is a brief video from that day taken from Indian side of LOC.

 

[CriticalThought]

The image in OP is no video grab, it appeared on twitter soon after the 27th Feb, dogfight.
However here is a brief video from that day taken from Indian side of LOC.

I stand by my claim. I grabbed this from a full video. The video you have posted is simply another angle of the same fight.

 

[PWFI]

exactly because of this reason I am still amazed how it happened .... why the Indian Air force under performed so much .....??

ACM Shahid Latif who apparently have seen the video of the engagement openly said in an interview to Mubashir Luqman that we PICK and CHOOSE the targets and as we had to put measure response therefore did not take out more of Indian fighter jets otherwise we had a chance to shoot many more.

Would you like to share the link of this interview? thanks in advance

 

[HRK]

Would you like to share the link of this interview? thanks in advance

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/rare-glimpse-of-dogfight-above-loc.607387/page-9#post-11272969

 

[alee92nawaz]

Oh please don't use your imagination. If the F-16 was downed it would have been all over the net by now. Secondly we don't know just believe what official claim is. Don't spread rumours.

Hi
Dear sir me bas itna keh raha tha kay it F-16 who scored the kill not the thunder. Thunder is getting overrated.

Oh please don't use your imagination. If the F-16 was downed it would have been all over the net by now. Secondly we don't know just believe what official claim is. Don't spread rumours.

Hi
Dear sir me bas itna keh raha tha kay it F-16 who scored the kill not the thunder. Thunder is getting overrated.