Ranjit Singh : The Quintessential Indus Man

[biplob]

Again Mr. Brar. Sir u r talking about 14th to 17th century, prevailing systems in the world were same as it was in India, kings did strange things according to today's world to hold on to the power, they killed their own brothers and any one else who challanged their rule.

And u Indians are singling out Mughals and that is not true representation of the facts at the time of their rule and that of facts existing at the time in question in all over the world.

great going,

u outrightly rejected everything ,all the historical evidence even the one recorded by officials of moghul rulers of the atrocities against non Muslims as blatant lies and blamed it prevailing moral values of the time and also as prejudiced views of nonMuslim for Muslim rulers. U are Mahan.

I specially liked the way u slapped and rejected Iqbal_brar's pussyfooting approach to represent hard evidence of moghul atrocities as minor personal failings of moghul rulers on his face and throw it out with u overarching argument that moghul kings were as good/ bad others and couldn't been any better.He toally deserved it.

 

[k_n]

Whoa Whoa.....Dont bring me into this.....

Im not petty enought to get into skin color and race to prove superiority to individuals with complex issues.....
Ive always maintained that Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....and I see beauty in every race

And its mindsets such as some samples here that give undue importance to the color of ones skin as a mark of superiority that lead to a handfew of "goray" taking over our country and eventually colonizing it.....Pathetic!!

I replied her in a hurry and mixed you up with someone else , Sorry mate for quoting your name !

 

[k_n]

I was talking about Fateh_71, not Peshwa...and thanks for giving me some info about chitpavan

Whoever !

That doesnt gives you the liberty to be prejudiced against any communitry if it fails to match your ill conceived definition of 'LOOKS' and pride yourself simply because your community averages more fair skinned blokes .
Much Self Praise

 

[Iqbal_Brar]

so accoding to you, they did those horible things, and u continue to say that they were dictators, Brar jee, please think clearly, we are talking about 17th century and in that century there was no democracy to be seen even in countries like England and or france, so judging them by your standard which you base on your imaginations and singling the Mughal out without any regard to the facts of history of the world at the time shows the prejudices against Mughals.

It is funny that all Indians talk in details and make it seem like horible time in India during Mughal rule, never mention about Aryans and English at all as if it was the glorious time of Indian History.

For your referance I am puting up a part of English history for u to read to see what English Kings were doing in 15th and 16th century and than compare Aurangzeb and other Mughal kings to it as this is what was going on in this world at the time Mughal were in power, if compared to their times with other kings, they were the best kings in the world.

John Foxe (1516-1587), Book of Martyrs (1563)

I can give u more about other kings in Europe at the time, but let us see if u really undestand and accept the truth.

I don't understand what you are trying to get attt... i only stated sikh relationship with mughals.. democracy or not.. sikhs supported legitimate mughal rulers.. and fought against illegitimate.. fifth Sikh guru was killed by Jehangir because he was supporting the legitimate Mughal ruler.. Jehangir's older brother.. Jehangir killed the Sikh guru aswell as his own brother to come to power... those illegitimate Mughal rulers were all backstabbers.. killing and imprisoning their own brothers and fathers for power... how does it matter what english or french did..? i'm only explaining sikh-mughal relationship..

I specially liked the way u slapped and rejected Iqbal_brar's pussyfooting approach to represent hard evidence of moghul atrocities as minor personal failings of moghul rulers on his face and throw it out with u overarching argument that moghul kings were as good/ bad others and couldn't been any better.He toally deserved it.

its a forum... to discuss things... grow ure sorry @ss up... and stop whining just because everyone doesn't share your narrow minded views of someone elses religion..

 

[biplob]

its a forum... to discuss things... grow ure sorry @ss up... and stop whining just because everyone doesn't share your narrow minded views of someone elses religion..

me narrow mined & whiny or pot calling kettle black???

U fill pages after pages up with tearjerkers more imagined less substantial on how Sikhs are being mistreated and its religion be usurped into Hinduism(mere khalistani howling) in today's india by hindu groups like RSS,but i cant get angryy if u try pussyfoots moghul atrocities on all non Muslim(Sikhs included) because I've this his one point agenda to look after that is to show Sikhs as victims of Indian(Hindu) hegemony .

May be i wouldn't have,if u weren't so hypocritical(UN flag...lol) or we didn't have a Sikh as India pm for last six yrs .

 

[Kabir Panthi]

me narrow mined & whiny or pot calling kettle black???

U fill pages after pages up with tearjerkers more imagined less substantial on how Sikhs are being mistreated and its religion be usurped into Hinduism(mere khalistani howling) in today's india by hindu groups like RSS,but i cant get angryy if u try pussyfoots moghul atrocities on all non Muslim(Sikhs included) because I've this his one point agenda to look after that is to show Sikhs as victims of Indian(Hindu) hegemony .

May be i wouldn't have,if u weren't so hypocritical(UN flag...lol) or we didn't have a Sikh as India pm for last six yrs .

Biplob, in the recent past, Sikhs have indeed been mistreated (not by Hindus as such, but rather by the Congress party). Please avoid using epithets such as "Khalistani howling". Thanks.

As regards Hindu and Sikh resistance - they were complimentary. There is no need to compare them. Marathas had taken over Delhi within about 25 years after Aurangazeb's death. But Sikhs played an important role in protecting India against the Afghans after 1761 (third battle of Panipat).

 

[biplob]

Biplob, in the recent past, Sikhs have indeed been mistreated (not by Hindus as such, but rather by the Congress party). Please avoid using epithets such as "Khalistani howling". Thanks.

U are quite right Kabir.

Its his tirade against RSS ,an organization which infact helped save lives of many Sikhs riot victims in 1984 which termed as mere "Khalistani howling".

Sikh and Sikh religion is very safe in India.Its only the Khalistanis who threaten our peaceful coexistence.Thanks .


PS:I'm no RSS member or support every action and views of RSS.
But as a hindu I'll defend a Hindu group like RSS against false accusations made by interest groups.

 

[Peshwa]

Bro Peshwa

By the simple rule of association those Hindus and Sikhs who sides with Aurangzeb and who fought for him were guilty as he.

But again u guys call him dictator, that is your concoction, he was King as Kings in England, France, Spain, scandanavia and in Russia at the time.

They all did worst than him if u read the history of the world at the time.

asq bhai.....

A dictator is a dictator and tyranny is their modus operandi to gain power.....
If you read my post you replied to, I clearly state that as a ruler it was his choice to govern as he pleased...same goes for the Rajputs and Sikhs that sided with him..this obviously was a time where "jungle rule" applied....

However as with all tyrannical rulers Aurangzeb met his kryptonite through persecuting Hindus and Sikhs.....resulting in resistance and eventual downfall of the Mughals by Sikhs, Jatts, Rajputs and Marathas......
He could have been a just and fair ruler like Akbar (loved by all)....and not only expanded but continued the empire for much longer.....But the fact that Aurangzeb brought the downfall of his empire speaks enough for the fact that he chose the wrong way to govern his empire and subjects......

 

[ranveer]

U are quite right Kabir.

Its his tirade against RSS ,an organization which infact helped save lives of many Sikhs riot victims in 1984 which termed as mere "Khalistani howling".

Sikh and Sikh religion is very safe in India.Its only the Khalistanis who threaten our peaceful coexistence.Thanks .


PS:I'm no RSS member or support every action and views of RSS.
But as a hindu I'll defend a Hindu group like RSS against false accusations made by interest groups.

mate dont worry about sikh religion, it is always safe wherever it is,, be it india or any where in world. well now again about khalistanis do not speak when u know half baked truths... do u know complete truth of what khalistanis is all about... u dont know what RSS is all about so dont make judgements... sikhs or khalistanis always have peaceful coexistance until they are forced to react and history will let u know about this if you read it with neutral mind.

Regarding RSS and hindu group,, if they work for hindus i am more than happy and best of luck,, i havent got anything against it but if they say sikhs are hindus and unfortunately they are hell bent on it,, then that is where you should understand before speaking.

Dont know about interest groups or anything if RSS works for society hindu, muslim, sikh anyone i will carry them on my head but if they work on religious lines, they are not welcome....

Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims everyone has peaceful coexistence since earlier times of gurus and even today... have u heard of secterian violence in punjab between sikhs and hindus or sikhs and muslims...no... come to gujarat strong hold of RSS... i am in gujarat and will tell you just check how many riots ahmedabad had in last 50 years.....if 2000 muslims get killed it is because of RSS u agree or not... be it muslims, sikhs or hindus all are human...so if RSS kills muslims i am against it and u should be as well other wise you are same HINDU terrorist under the guise of RSS...

no offence and live in peace

 

[Iqbal_Brar]

me narrow mined & whiny or pot calling kettle black???

Yes you're narrow minded.. the one reason you're getting smacked around by every Sikh on this forum.. how about you care about your own religion and cut out your BS theories on our religion..

U fill pages after pages up with tearjerkers more imagined less substantial on how Sikhs are being mistreated and its religion be usurped into Hinduism(mere khalistani howling) in today's india by hindu groups like RSS,

those pages after pages are not filled by tearjerkers.. they are filled at calling BS to ure RSS theories.. just calling a spare for a spade...

but i cant get angryy if u try pussyfoots moghul atrocities on all non Muslim(Sikhs included)

pussyfooting? loll errmm.. noo.. maybe heres the difference.. our ancestors fought hard and established a powerful kingdom right in the yard of the Mughals and fought to secure our dignity.. so that in the end it was Sikh armies who were helping decide who sits on the Mughal throne (Bahadur Shah).. so no in the end we came out of the fight with our heads held high.. yes many atrocities were commited by certain people and Sikhs fought them till their death so yes maybe unlike you, we have no reason to toss and cry 200 years later... our ancestors ensured us our dignity...

May be i wouldn't have,if u weren't so hypocritical(UN flag...lol) or we didn't have a Sikh as India pm for last six yrs .

Yehh.. you bracketed "UN flag" in like every post of yours... yehh.. thats not winning you any brownie points... its the substance in your posts which does the talking... you think the "UN flag" is enough to brand me a Khalistani... if thats not a narrow mindset than i don't know what iss... on the other hand you don't even need to fly the chadiwalla flag.. your posts scream out and say RSS jibberish... becuase you tow their line...

 

[asq]

great going,

u outrightly rejected everything ,all the historical evidence even the one recorded by officials of moghul rulers of the atrocities against non Muslims as blatant lies and blamed it prevailing moral values of the time and also as prejudiced views of nonMuslim for Muslim rulers. U are Mahan.

I specially liked the way u slapped and rejected Iqbal_brar's pussyfooting approach to represent hard evidence of moghul atrocities as minor personal failings of moghul rulers on his face and throw it out with u overarching argument that moghul kings were as good/ bad others and couldn't been any better.He toally deserved it.

it is not failing of Mughals, it is how the world was, u guys as Indians pick on mughals grudgingly and try to brainwash Indians as a whole to hate Muslims and that is the reason there are roits against Muslims in India, no one else, but Muslims, you donot care to see true conditions of the world at the time of mughal rule.

Let me reapeat again. can u guys not see the coditions that existed at he time in15th and 126th century.

Mughals Rule was very benovelant as compare to world that was than.

 

[Peshwa]

it is not failing of Mughals, it is how the world was, u guys as Indians pick on mughals grudgingly and try to brainwash Indians as a whole to hate Muslims and that is the reason there are roits against Muslims in India, no one else, but Muslims, you donot care to see true conditions of the world at the time of mughal rule.

Let me reapeat again. can u guys not see the coditions that existed at he time in15th and 126th century.

Mughals Rule was very benovelant as compare to world that was than.

Brother ASQ.....

Your statement above is extremely flawed.....

The distrust amonst Muslims stems from the atrocities and the actual act of partition....NOT Mughal rule...
Add to it the insurgency, terrorism, etc....

Lets not forget that Indians "Hindus and Muslims" lived happily under one banner during the time of liberal Mughal rulers.....

Even after the tyrannical rule of Aurangzeb, Hindus such as Tantya Tope, Mangal Pandey etc lead the freedom struggle and the revolt of 1857 to reinstate the legitimate rule of Bahadur Shah Zafar under the banner of united India.....

Atrocities committed by some Hindus in India cannot be attributed to the other 800 Million Hindus who live peacefully with Muslims.....
Dont you feel Indians have enough ammo to generalize Pakistanis as well?....Lets refrain from this....

PS: Do remember that Text books and schools in India seperate Religion from education and history is presented as seen through the lenses of secularism....I can guarantee you that....So the incidence of "Hindus brainwashing" is minimal unless an individual chooses to join a religiously affiliated organization not different than a Madrasah....

 

[asq]

Brother ASQ.....

Your statement above is extremely flawed.....

The distrust amonst Muslims stems from the atrocities and the actual act of partition....NOT Mughal rule...

Lets not forget that Indians "Hindus and Muslims" lived happily under one banner during the time of liberal Mughal rulers.....

Even after the tyrannical rule of Aurangzeb, Hindus such as Tantya Tope, Mangal Pandey etc lead the freedom struggle and the revolt of 1857 to reinstate the legitimate rule of Bahadur Shah Zafar under the banner of united India.....

Atrocities committed by some Hindus in India cannot be attributed to the other 800 Million Hindus who live peacefully with Muslims.....
Dont you feel Indians have enough ammo to generalize Pakistanis as well?....Lets refrain from this....

Enough emmo, u already have brainwashed Indians and results are that Mulsims are indiscriminately killed in Kashmir and other riots.

All blames are blames concocted by HIndu and sikhs, rising up against king is unfogiveable sin dealt with a swere punishment. and those who under the guise of Religion commited it were dealt with by Army and than punished.

Now all This happened 3 to 4 hundered years ago, I find it based on false allegations used by present day racists to create hatered among common Indians to set them up for Muslim hating riots.

 

[Peshwa]

Enough emmo, u already have brainwashed Indians and results are that Mulsims are indiscriminately killed in Kashmir and other riots.

All blames are blames concocted by HIndu and sikhs, rising up against king is unfogiveable sin dealt with a swere punishment. and those who under the guise of Religion commited it were dealt with by Army and than punished.

Now all This happened 3 to 4 hundered years ago, I find it based on false allegations used by present day racists to create hatered among common Indians to set them up for Muslim hating riots.

Let me be perfectly honest.....

If Hindus + Silkhs (800 Million of us + Sikhs) were so brainwashed, it wouldnt take us long to wipe out the muslim population from India (140 Million)....if we really wanted to....(No Offence...Im just trying to make a point)
What does that tell you....?

Please think rationally maiser....An incident like Godhra is not a common occourance.....We love Indian Muslims....they are our brothers in every way.....and more patriotic than Hindus in many ways....

Kashmir is a different issue and lets leave that out of discussion since its political and not related in any way to Mughal history.....

The bolded part Im unclear on....can you please explain?

 

[asq]

Let me be perfectly honest.....

If Hindus + Silkhs (800 Million of us + Sikhs) were so brainwashed, it wouldnt take us long to wipe out the muslim population from India (140 Million)....if we really wanted to....(No Offence...Im just trying to make a point)
What does that tell you....?

Please think rationally maiser....An incident like Godhra is not a common occourance.....We love Indian Muslims....they are our brothers in every way.....and more patriotic than Hindus in many ways....

Kashmir is a different issue and lets leave that out of discussion since its political and not related in any way to Mughal history.....

The bolded part Im unclear on....can you please explain?[/QUOTE

You would have done it but your national cherecter is that u check with west first and than take the action.

U did in case of Bangla Desh
In case of Kashmir
In case of Partition seeking blessing from Lord Mount batan.

And many more, but u get trhe point.