rampant extortion in KPK

[ghoul]

My family has also bought plots in pindi-islamabad, the ones who sold it to us, were your potoharis/punjabis. So you should be frustrated at your own people.
Pashtuns have migrated eastward since long, either due to wars in their watan or for oppurtunities. In those times, vast stretches of hindostan upto bengal were opened to them. Nowadays they cant go beyond wagha. So it would be either punjab or sindh, but only in their urban centres.
About your day dreaming of committing genocide of Afghans in Potohar, thats not gonna happen for various reasons. If it was that easy, indian mohajirs would have already committed genocide of pashtuns in karachi or sindhis would have already cleansed sindh from all kind of settlers. Your scenario can only happen, if attempt of genocide is backed by state, carried out by army (punjabi and pathan civilians themeselves are o.k with each other, so rule out your 47 dream)....as happened in 1971 with bengalis, when jawans from potohar could not control the lust and thirst for women and blood.
For qabail or any pashtuns, the threat is not from some lalu panju civilian from potohar or else where, Its highly trained professional army with guns, tanks, artillary, jets, gunship helis etc. Khaki jawans are losing 'temper' with each passing year, raheel shareef has shown that he is ready to move the level of 'punishment' to next level. Honestly speaking british never faced such dangerous enemy like TTP from pashtun belt still they faced a low intensity insurgency for 100 years led by mullahs, malaks and faqeers. TTP's ambushes on security forces would go on for several decades. Lets see when first rape of pashtun woman occurs by faujis and let see what would be the response of general pashtun population, as well as those in FC and lower ranks of the army, to the incident.

How did you buy property? I thought Afghans weren't allowed to buy property in Pakistan. You aren't a fake cnic holder are you? And we are not hindustani Karachiites either.. We also have a history. We've defended our lands on our own without any state intervention. And Pakistani pakhtuns can only stay as a minority. If they threaten our existence, there would be no distinction. Afghans have no belonging to this land, and their mere presence is a blasphemy here. My hate is reciprocal. I wasn't born or raised hateful, but grew to hate them over the years. If Pakistan implodes, god forbid, we'll see who stays and who leaves. And yeah, you're right. A genocide can only happen in case of chaos like 47.

Also Afghans have always backstabbed all the muslim speakers of indic languages. There was a movement in late 1800s, where muslims of India decided to migrate to Afghanistan in masses, but were denied entry into Afghanistan.

As for the hindustani karachiites, had they not been pacified by the army in 90s, things would have gone much messier. Truth is, Karachi based Pakhtun gangs are no match for MQM's militant wing. MQM's militant wing is notorious for its intelligence gathering unit. There were reports of Pakhtun reverse migrations from Karachi in 2010-2013 due to Zulfiqar Mirza affairs. Economic Pakhtun migration has more or less stopped going to Karachi. Some Pakhtun families are even shifting to Islamabad from Karachi.

And Potohari soldiers raping Bengali women is a lie constantly repeated by Afghans on Pashtunforums. There's no evidence of Potohari soldiers indulging in rape. Martial race theory was abandoned back then even, and hence a non-martial Zia and Musharraf were in army even back then.

You punjabis have habit of generalizing and stereotyping about pashtuns, whether positively or negatively. Pashtunwali is like belief and religion, some follow it, some doest. Some live upto it, some doesnt. I.e a pashtun can be imaandar or bey-imaan, a ghairatmand or beghairat, brave or coward. But like most of the societies, we look down upon vices and sins and cant accept it as norms. E.g you yourself said that many afghans in your area are earning through hard work e.g tandoor and labour. Yet you chose to make your opinion about them from some extortion cases in which afghans may or may not be involved.

Qabaylis and Afghans are involved almost exclusively in carjacking and kidnapping for ransom. There was a 275% increase in kidnappings from 2012-2013(can't cite the source now). If I was a racist, I'd dislike all non-locals, and even plain punjabis, yet I don't. When a guest damages the host's house, you force that guest out or at least lock your door. And there have been hundreds of Afghan arrests in recent years. Whenever you read the Islamabad section on news, it's always "Afghan" or "xyz were speaking in Pashto" news. Secondly, majority of Afghans carry special hate and derogatory terms for us like "daalkhour", yet stay and leach off the economic benefits of our own hardwork.

And secondly, Pakhtuns themselves, including Pakistani ones, are quite racist in general themselves. Ask any non-Pashtun who has lived with them.

There is no honour in that, not a single sikh was harmed in pashtun belt due to code of pashtunwali, even though muslim leaguis were instigating them to do so. The sikhs in peshawer and FATA, came with ranjeet singh forces yet it didnt provoke us to massacre them, even though hari singh nalwa spilled lot of pashtun blood. Instead of killing sikhs under our protection like cowards, our battle hardened tribesmen were eager to go to east punjab and kashmir to avenge deaths of muslims as evident from telegram of liaqat ali khan to nehru (but were directed to kashmir only by pakistan).
What people of multan did, was honourable and islamic.

The Sikhs in Fata and Peshawar were local merchants and not really jagirdaars. The Sikhs in Potohar were settled as jagirdars. Sikhs didn't try to commit genocide of individual Pakhtun tribes like they did in Rawalpindi and Murree hills. And back then, Seraikis and Potoharis had no distinct identity but were all "Punjabi". The head of unionists was from Attock but always said "I'm a Punjabi first, and muslim, Hindhu or Sikh later". Sikhs had attacked Punjabi muslims in east Punjab. They had to be returned the favour.

And hundreds of Azad Kashmiri volunteers also took a part in qabayli incursion. The "faateh-e-bhimber" was an ex Indian army member from Bhimber, who formed anti dogra militia from retired and serving soldiers of Indian army. The whole anti-maharajah movement was started by Gilgit Baltistanis any way.

There are also hindu rohilla rajputs in Rohilkhund , even though rohilla is synonymous with pashtun. When i dig deeper, i found out that rajputs of kumoun and rohilkhund, who were under rule of rohillas, served under various chieftains of rohillas. Kumaouni, garhwali and katehr rajputs were martial hindu people so they were recruited by rohillas. They got labelled as rohillas and use surname of rohilla. Same must be the case with sudhans, who were declared "martial race" by british, were heavily recruited and it was not no coincidence that they rebelled in poonch. They have khan surnames. And they are very clear and loud about their sadozai origin, which shouldnt be so surprising for you as sadozais have ruled kashmir for 67 years. Sudhans are too much martial to be brahmins.

Brahmins are known to be good fighters. The generals of Hindhu Shahi army were Mohyal brahmins. East India company had used bengali brahmins as their cavalry.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

thts weird...

May be he is living in city and foriegn country thats why.
I can trace my shajra all the way to marwat and from marwat to lodhi. Our rural folk have very strong sense of roots and cultural identity. Your family lose this sense of identity and roots, when you settle some where else.

 

[ghoul]

And yep, your average Potohari man is a law abiding and hard working citizen wanting education or a lalu Panju as you put it, but in my own opinion, if the Raja family from Khanpur, Hazara(spiritual head of Gakhars) went on a cross province tour trying to raise a local lashkar, I estimate at least a 1000-2000 volunteers.

The spiritual head of Kalabagh has similar powers.

 

[mughal arslan shah mirza]

@ghoul

I personally believe that the Mohyals are very very similar to Khokhars , Janjuas, Gakhars (despite Gakkhar claim of later-day migration) etc. The reason I say this is because their history is so intertwined that making a distinction is virtually impossible. For example, from the old times right up to the Hindu-Shahis, they moved right next to some of these groups especially the Janjuas. This is also what somebody who is a Mohyal told me that they're officially religious representative clan of the Janjuas. They lived right next door to each other right uptil the end.
Janjua armies had Mohyals in them . Moreover, I was also told that Mohyals DO NOT practice certain Brahmanical rituals and in fact look down upon extreme ritualising which makes sense as Brahmanical type of Hindu-ism was never that popular in the Indus regions to begin with. I think that the overlap between these groups is to the point that there aren't that many differences

what is arora? i have a sikh arora class mate...

Aroras have been described as a community very similar to khatris. They are notable businessmen and traders.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

@ghoul
In all of the Pashtun-mohajir riots, mohajirs suffered the most for very obvious reasons...our folk have stronger sense of community sense and we are better in badmashi. All of the pashtun majority areas are no-go-areas for mohajirs.
MQM was only able to gain upper hand in recent decade due to their governaments and their control over police, judiciary, businessmen, media and beurocracy while pashtuns are mostly in low scale jobs like transport, gaurds, shops, hotel and labour, with no political power, just raw badmashi. Pashtuns are helpless against MQM's tactic of target killing of random pashtuns on street while riding on bikes, these "surprise" attacks cant be stopped but pashtuns instead directly damage MQM by killing their workers and sector chiefs why do you think MQM and mohajirs hate pashtuns? Because my people are quite stubborn and dangerous, their population has reached to 7 millions.
And the new players, taliban in karachi, have replaced ANP-affiliated ghundas very easily. According to reports, they control 33% of karachi area and if they were not banned organization hunted down by army, they could have been in the position to take entire karachi. MQM fears pashtuns because any organised taliban like entity from pashtuns would easily eliminate MQM mafia from face of earth , if pakistan disintegrates with no protection from army. They have phobia of turning into minority and being thrown into arabian sea. If they had acted more muslim than mohajir, they would have peacefully co-existed with sindhis, pashtuns and others. May Allah put mohajirs and pashtuns into peaceful and friendly coexistence. Ameen

 

[Shahmir]

There are also hindu rohilla rajputs in Rohilkhund , even though rohilla is synonymous with pashtun. When i dig deeper, i found out that rajputs of kumoun and rohilkhund, who were under rule of rohillas, served under various chieftains of rohillas. Kumaouni, garhwali and katehr rajputs were martial hindu people so they were recruited by rohillas. They got labelled as rohillas and use surname of rohilla. Same must be the case with sudhans, who were declared "martial race" by british, were heavily recruited and it was not no coincidence that they rebelled in poonch. They have khan surnames. And they are very clear and loud about their sadozai origin, which shouldnt be so surprising for you as sadozais have ruled kashmir for 67 years. Sudhans are too much martial to be brahmins.

Lohars and Tarkhans in pakistani punjab are also very clear and loud about their "mughal" origin, lol

This is what I found after searching brohi on google:

lol!

But my last post aside, this guy looks pretty dravidic. He's A.K.Brohi, but maybe he's Sindhi that's why?:

In Balochistan pashtuns freely marry with Baloch and Brahui people, my pashtun friends from Sibbi, Harnai and Quetta told me that the inter-marriage between Pashtuns and Baloch/Brahui is very common in Balochistan and that this has been the case for centuries that may explain the divergent looks of some of the Baloch/Brahui people in Balochistan as compared to those living in Sindh.

 

[mughal arslan shah mirza]

There is practically no difference in feature of brahui and Baloch. Brahui seem to be little shorter but not much, maybe little bit more tanned/darker. Just going by anhtro forum posts where non-troll people give good opinions of different people.

Also look at harappadna Brahui results.

You're very right. Baloch and Brahui genetically cluster on top of each other. Genetically, they have negligible difference . Physically, Brahui might be a little shorter but that's about it ,as you said. Most of the difference is of a linguistic nature. This whole thing gets confusing by the whole 'Dravidian language spoken by Brahui' thing.
There might be cultural difference though.
Interestingly, it shows that using linguistic classifications is not a good proxy for genes. People go through linguistic changes

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

And yep, your average Potohari man is a law abiding and hard working citizen wanting education or a lalu Panju as you put it, but in my own opinion, if the Raja family from Khanpur, Hazara(spiritual head of Gakhars) went on a cross province tour trying to raise a local lashkar, I estimate at least a 1000-2000 volunteers.

The spiritual head of Kalabagh has similar powers.

There will be very small number of volunteers, you people have no culture for that. Though your ghakkars and others can be easily convinced for army job with proper salary and facilities.
And you always give too much credit to awans of mianwali. Their garh is khushab. Awans of kalabagh rose to power when their nawab became governor of west pakistan. A ruthless man who used state's power against his opponents. After him, their baloon deflated and his son was shot by khattak baghuchi. There are awans settled in lakki city, they are called baghuchi, nothing special about them. Infact they are considered "kamaya" which translates to low caste. There are also awans settled in villages of bannu, they have also lower social status. Nothing war-like about them what so ever. Awan is only important in his own khushab, in our areas they live as serfs.

Lohars and Tarkhans in pakistani punjab are also very clear and loud about their "mughal" origin, lol



In Balochistan pashtuns freely marry with Baloch and Brahui people, my pashtun friends from Sibbi, Harnai and Quetta told me that the inter-marriage between Pashtuns and Baloch/Brahui is very common in Balochistan and that this has been the case for centuries that may explain the divergent looks of some of the Baloch/Brahui people in Balochistan as compared to those living in Sindh.

Is that you in avatar?

 

[ghoul]

@ghoul
In all of the Pashtun-mohajir riots, mohajirs suffered the most for very obvious reasons...our folk have stronger sense of community sense and we are better in badmashi. All of the pashtun majority areas are no-go-areas for mohajirs.
MQM was only able to gain upper hand in recent decade due to their governaments and their control over police, judiciary, businessmen, media and beurocracy while pashtuns are mostly in low scale jobs like transport, gaurds, shops, hotel and labour, with no political power, just raw badmashi. Pashtuns are helpless against MQM's tactic of target killing of random pashtuns on street while riding on bikes, these "surprise" attacks cant be stopped but pashtuns instead directly damage MQM by killing their workers and sector chiefs why do you think MQM and mohajirs hate pashtuns? Because my people are quite stubborn and dangerous, their population has reached to 7 millions.
And the new players, taliban in karachi, have replaced ANP-affiliated ghundas very easily. According to reports, they control 33% of karachi area and if they were not banned organization hunted down by army, they could have been in the position to take entire karachi. MQM fears pashtuns because any organised taliban like entity from pashtuns would easily eliminate MQM mafia from face of earth , if pakistan disintegrates with no protection from army. They have phobia of turning into minority and being thrown into arabian sea. If they had acted more muslim than mohajir, they would have peacefully co-existed with sindhis, pashtuns and others. May Allah put mohajirs and pashtuns into peaceful and friendly coexistence. Ameen

Nah. Early 90s was the heyday of MQM's militant wing. Back then, it's estimated strength was at least 30,000. Now it's said to be 10,000 as 20,000 were killed by the army. Back then, mohajirs had fortified their towns with broken cars and shit; a typical post apocalyptic scenario. Pakhtuns have only a few neighbourhoods where they form the majority. Muhajirs have over 70% of Karachi. When an MQM strike is announced, 80-90% of Karachi becomes a no go area for Pakhtuns. I also read somewhere that overall casualties in Karachi since 80s have been majority Pakhtuns. Also, TTP can carry out rogue tactics like bombing random mohajirs, but then Sindhi nationalists might join hands with MQM. Qadir Magsi killed 280 mohajirs in a single day in late 80s.

And mohajirs hate Pakhtuns because, as they claim, Pakhtuns attacked them in 65's rigged elections and qasba and aligarh colony, when they had declared "jihad" on mohajirs according to mohajirs.

Pakhtun prowess in military and badmaashi is undeniable, particularly when it comes to Wazir and Mehsud, but you underestimate other races. Pakhtuns have brawn, Mohajirs have brain and brawn. Sri Lanka banned visa on arrival for Pakistan because of MQM's militants using it as an asylum. They have bases in South Africa too, so they won't ever be pushed to arabian sea. You need tanks and artillery to force 10 million people into the sea, which local gangsters lack.

 

[Shahmir]

There will be very small number of volunteers, you people have no culture for that. Though your ghakkars and others can be easily convinced for army job with proper salary and facilities.
And you always give too much credit to awans of mianwali. Their garh is khushab. Awans of kalabagh rose to power when their nawab became governor of west pakistan. A ruthless man who used state's power against his opponents. After him, their baloon deflated and his son was shot by khattak baghuchi. There are awans settled in lakki city, they are called baghuchi, nothing special about them. Infact they are considered "kamaya" which translates to low caste. There are also awans settled in villages of bannu, they have also lower social status. Nothing war-like about them what so ever. Awan is only important in his own khushab, in our areas they live as serfs.


Is that you in avatar?

And your beloved Afkooni kind lives as serfs all over central punjab , what about them

Nah. Early 90s was the heyday of MQM's militant wing. Back then, it's estimated strength was at least 30,000. Now it's said to be 10,000 as 20,000 were killed by the army. Back then, mohajirs had fortified their towns with broken cars and shit; a typical post apocalyptic scenario. Pakhtuns have only a few neighbourhoods where they form the majority. Muhajirs have over 70% of Karachi. When an MQM strike is announced, 80-90% of Karachi becomes a no go area for Pakhtuns. I also read somewhere that overall casualties in Karachi since 80s have been majority Pakhtuns. Also, TTP can carry out rogue tactics like bombing random mohajirs, but then Sindhi nationalists might join hands with MQM. Qadir Magsi killed 280 mohajirs in a single day in late 80s.

I have also noticed that Pashtun's numbers in Karachi are overexaggerated, I lived in karachi in early 2000s and did not see many pashtun except local transport drivers and conductors. I found karachi all and all a mohajir urdu speaking area with pockets of punjabi, saraiki, hazarawal, pashtuns, azad kashmiris and sindhis etc. I never understood why they exaggerate pashtun numbers in karachi so much in the media.

There will be very small number of volunteers, you people have no culture for that. Though your ghakkars and others can be easily convinced for army job with proper salary and facilities.
And you always give too much credit to awans of mianwali. Their garh is khushab. Awans of kalabagh rose to power when their nawab became governor of west pakistan. A ruthless man who used state's power against his opponents. After him, their baloon deflated and his son was shot by khattak baghuchi. There are awans settled in lakki city, they are called baghuchi, nothing special about them. Infact they are considered "kamaya" which translates to low caste. There are also awans settled in villages of bannu, they have also lower social status. Nothing war-like about them what so ever. Awan is only important in his own khushab, in our areas they live as serfs.


Is that you in avatar?

It is not me but I look similar, this is a guy with my maternal caste "Lone" from kashmir valley so would be related to me from distant past.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

And your beloved Afkooni kind lives as serfs all over central punjab , what about them

Nope, pashtuns in punjab are more like your kashmiris in my lakki marwat who runs bakeries, serfs are some thing else.
Pashtuns settled in punjab as rulers so their descendants are landowners and elite class in social strata. Take the example of kasur, all the "kasuris" are socio-politically very dominant class of kasur. Durranis and khakwanis of multan enjoys similar status.

 

[ghoul]

There will be very small number of volunteers, you people have no culture for that. Though your ghakkars and others can be easily convinced for army job with proper salary and facilities.
And you always give too much credit to awans of mianwali. Their garh is khushab. Awans of kalabagh rose to power when their nawab became governor of west pakistan. A ruthless man who used state's power against his opponents. After him, their baloon deflated and his son was shot by khattak baghuchi. There are awans settled in lakki city, they are called baghuchi, nothing special about them. Infact they are considered "kamaya" which translates to low caste. There are also awans settled in villages of bannu, they have also lower social status. Nothing war-like about them what so ever. Awan is only important in his own khushab, in our areas they live as serfs.

You have never been to rural Gujar Khan and Jhelum to know that. They have hundreds of welay. Your average Gakhar male is a 6 foot tall, frequent hunter not shying away from guns and weaponry. The raja family of khanpur had hundreds of horsemen under british empire. He married Afghanistan's king's daughter. Gakhars also successfully defeated Yousafzai incursion in lower hazara under their last independent chief. They were ruling almost all of Haripur district during Ayoub Khan's period, when local people started protesting for land rights. Here's a picture of their spiritual head from the raj:

As for the awans, the fact that you people call them "kammaya" maybe derived from the word "kammi". They must be kammi migrants from Punjab rather than real awans. Kammis take on the name of the dominant tribe when they relocate. Hence many kammis claim surnames like bhatti and khokhar in Punjab. In Sialkot, Janjua is a darzi or nai tribe, yet in Muzaffarabad, they are known as Khakhas and their raids till the suburbs of Srinagar have proven their mettle when it comes to fighting. The Janjua of Jhelum are the highest caste after Gakhar and Syed. Similarly, the "Kakezai" throughout Potohar and AJK are kammi castes. So, don't rely on these regional fairy tales lol.

Awans are actually the ruling elite of Attock lol. Chakwal and Attock are home to the awan elite. Afghans love citing chach illaqa of Attock where Pakhtuns settled a 100 years ago, but even there, the local jagirdars are the awans of shamsabad. Awans of shamsabad and kalabagh are competing spiritual heads since the raj. Khunda is also a famous village. Basically, awan and gheba are the highest castes in attock and their "neza clubs" litter the whole district. Khattaks of makhad are also high caste, but not so much into neza bazi and horsemanship. As for Kalabagh, the maliks made their jagirs in 1700s after the Gakhar rule collapsed there when they got attacked by Abdali. This resulted in awans from Talagang moving in and making their own jagir, which was one of the largest in bitish india. The awans were ruling the area already when Sikhs moved in. Though, their reign was one of constant conflict.

I didn't know of malik's son getting assassinated by Khattaks. Can you aware me on that? I'm pretty sure that the malik family got its revenge later on, as even now, no one can win that constituency without the nawabzada of kalabagh's blessing. The reality is, they are the ruling gentlemen with shooting ranges and mansions, yet khattaks and niazi the peasants in Kalabagh, but of course no offence meant for them.

 

[Shahmir]

Nope, pashtuns in punjab are more like your kashmiris in my lakki marwat who runs bakeries, serfs are some thing else.
Pashtuns settled in punjab as rulers so their descendants are landowners and elite class in social strata. Take the example of kasur, all the "kasuris" are socio-politically very dominant class of kasur. Durranis and khakwanis of multan enjoys similar status.

I never understand you are marwat , why are you so much proud of achievements of other pashtun tribes like durranis, khakwanis in multan, they are not marwat

 

[ghoul]

I never understand you are marwat , why are you so much proud of achievements of other pashtun tribes like durranis, khakwanis in multan, they are not marwat

I have never seen a Marwat who speaks dari, or would ever speak that language haha. In Afghanistan, it makes sense to learn Dari as its the lingua franca, but in Pakistan it doesn't under any circumstance. I'm yet to meet a dari speaking Pakistani pakhtun lol.

I have also noticed that Pashtun's numbers in Karachi are overexaggerated, I live in karachi in early 2000s and did not see many pashtun except local transport drivers and conductors. I found karachi all and all a mohajir urdu speaking area with pockets of punjabi, saraiki, hazarawal, pashtuns, azad kashmiris and sindhis etc. I never understood why they exaggerate pashtun numbers in karachi so much in the media..

Maybe their numbers got exhaggerated to weaken MQM's hold on Karachi. I mean state is wary of MQM due to its links with Indian and foreign intelligence agencies.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I never understand you are marwat , why are you so much proud of achievements of other pashtun tribes like durranis, khakwanis in multan, they are not marwat

I do not believe in tribal divisions, tribal nationalisms.....i believe in one pashtun qaum. Our biggest shortcoming is tribal divisions and disunity, I am pashtunist not marwatist.
In 20th and 21st century were supposed to grow into a nation. But we didnt, and as you can see we are in miserable state. When i see pashtuns in such state, khushal khan khattak's poetry echoes in my ear. We saw a glimpse of pashtun unity during ahmad shah baba period and then we lost it.
@ghoul pashtuns were elites and landowners of punjab even during delhi sultanates. During tuqhlaq dynasty, jagirs of hundred villages called sadeh were given to pashtuns and mongol converts in punjab and rest of india. Read full article here
History of Pashtuns: Tughlaq dynasty and Afghans
It were mughals who removed pashtuns from rule of punjab and allowed your rajas, ghakkars etc to prosper.
And check gazetter of attock 1901, pashtuns (then numbering 38 thousands) were already settled two centuries ago before 1901. Attock was under various pashtun tribes before mughals.