Ramadan 'police' target Pakistan's cafe society

[A1Kaid]

T

So basically you are conceding that its less about inconvenience more about respecting the people who fast.
I have no issue of people doing it out of their own accord. We all want to be nice to others. The issue is to have a law.
How does it degenerate from being respectful of others to being arrested for eating a sandwich (or drinking cola).

Do you also propose to legislate women wearing modestly (in islamic costume) during ramadan.

Just how far down the slope will you meet SA?

The issue is to have a law.

Exactly. This issue goes beyond respect, and undermines the individual liberties of people not adhering to the fast.

 

[Safriz]

T



Exactly. This issue goes beyond respect, and undermines the individual liberties of people not adhering to the fast.

Each culture has different norms..Pakistan has theirs..You cant judge one on the basis of another..
Its same as gay marriage is ine in some states but totally immoral and forbidden in others....

 

[Patriot]

I don't know why Pakistanis are so insecure about Islam.Nothing will happen to Islam however if you people impose morality laws and stuff like that then people would not be attracted towards Islam.Holy Prophet (PBUH) sent a message of tolerance which is why so many people accepted Islam where as today Muslims are trying to force Islam on others which is not a good thing.If someone is not fasting or eating how is it supposed to hurt your faith?You can still fast.Is your faith so weak that you would feel uncomfortable if someone is eating in front of you??Please don't become another Saudi Arabian Theocracy.Taliban etc are not the threat.The threat are people in jeans and shirts drinking coffee..This is similar to Ahmedi issue. so much insecurity.Just so insecure and the hypocrites then cry about burka ban in France.The mentality of Pakistanis is mind boggling.There are people who would cheat, lie etc but he is a good muslim because he prays 5 times a day but a person who is liberal and does not cheat or lie is a bad muslim because he does not pray.Pakistanis have a weird belief that if saudi type laws are imposed in Pakistan then it would prosper (Idiots don't know that Saudis have oil $$$ thats why they are not sh!t poor like Pakistanis).It just does not make any sense.The jamati islami guys are always saying Impose Saudi Laws and stuff and all our issues will be solved and the sad part is that people actually believe it.

 

[Armstrong]

So basically you are conceding that its less about inconvenience more about respecting the people who fast.
I have no issue of people doing it out of their own accord. We all want to be nice to others. The issue is to have a law.
How does it degenerate from being respectful of others to being arrested for eating a sandwich (or drinking cola).

Do you also propose to legislate women wearing modestly (in islamic costume) during ramadan.

Just how far down the slope will you meet SA?

'Convenience-inconvenience, symbolism, domestic consumption, socially acceptable-unacceptanle' - these are all synonymous, in this context, with each other.

How or rather where do you draw the line ? Well thats the essence of democracy isn't it ? The assumption that collective wisdom would prevail, that self-interest, idealism and plain showmanship would ensure that such laws are never made that a large minority, never mind the majority, finds unacceptable ! Any legislation is the reflection of the collective consciousness of the society ! If thier are regressive laws in a democracy then they've been sanctioned by the society as being in the right ! And thats the only workable solution that man has ever come up with - the assumption that in a democracy because legislatures would have to pander to a dozen different thing for votes...they won't be able to take such drastic steps as the ones that victimize large swathes of the society ! They'd only manage to do so if the society in itself has degenerated, as perceived by one hailing from another society, to such a level that it increasingly finds such things as acceptable. If you would trace the enactment of some of our more regressive laws you would find that almost all of them, barring the Ahmediya one, were enacted by dictators and not by the society till a time came when indoctrination changed that 'collective consciousness' of the society. Thankfully that change is happening once more but for the better, or so I think.

 

[Safriz]

I don't know why Pakistanis are so insecure about Islam.Nothing will happen to Islam however if you people impose morality laws and stuff like that then people would not be attracted towards Islam.Holy Prophet (PBUH) sent a message of tolerance which is why so many people accepted Islam where as today Muslims are trying to force Islam on others which is not a good thing.If someone is not fasting or eating how is it supposed to hurt your faith?You can still fast.Is your faith so weak that you would feel uncomfortable if someone is eating in front of you??Please don't become another Saudi Arabian Theocracy.Taliban etc are not the threat.The threat are people in jeans and shirts drinking coffee..This is similar to Ahmedi issue. so much insecurity.Just so insecure and the hypocrites then cry about burka ban in France.

we grew up under those laws..lived in Zia's time under those laws and more and our love for Islam never diminished..
Its today's illiterate youth who want to get rid of Islam alltogether or distort it same way as christians did to christianity who have a problem..
we never had a problem...

 

[A1Kaid]

Each culture has different norms..Pakistan has theirs..You cant judge one on the basis of another..
Its same as gay marriage is ine in some states but totally immoral and forbidden in others....

Of course each culture has their own ways. The point for Government is to have a law, it is important to be governed by law and not culture, as not everyone in Pakistan is equally cultural or have a different culture. People should be allowed to eat durning Ramadan without a group of opportunistic falsely-righteous bhagharat log stigmatizing them or harassing them, and law should ensure people have this liberty to do so--to eat during fasting hours, whether publicly or privately.

 

[Safriz]

Of course each culture has their own ways. The point for Government is to have a law, it is important to be governed by law and not culture, as not everyone in Pakistsn is equally cultural or have a different culture. People should be allowed to eat durning Ramadan without a group of opportunistic falsely-righteous bhagharat log stigmatizing them or harassing them, and law should ensure people have this liberty to do so--to eat during fasting hours, whether publicly or privately.

The law is there..and it says Publicly eating in Ramazan is forbidden.....
By your own argument people are not the same.....Government cannot force people to be tolerant as we have limits..At a time when majority is fasting a small group of healty young youths cannot be allowed to rub it in their faces and somebody will get angry and that will casue public disorder..
Probabl;y thats why the law is there in line with the needs of Pakistani society...

Same as in South carolina two guys kissing each other will cause public unrest and lawas are there according to that particular culture.

 

[Armstrong]

we grew up under those laws..lived in Zia's time under those laws and more and our love for Islam never diminished..
Its today's illiterate youth who want to get rid of Islam alltogether or distort it same way as christians did to christianity who have a problem..
we never had a problem...

Jeez...yaara you're from that generation ! Growing up under Zia would have been a bad experience.

 

[Safriz]

Jeez...yaara you're from that generation ! Growing up under Zia would have been a bad experience.

it was way better than any democrazy.....miss those days when Pakistan was really respected...

 

[Armstrong]

it was way better than any democrazy.....miss those days when Pakistan was really respected...

Hmmmmn the guys I knew who lived as teenagers through that time never really liked Zia ! Even the religious ones hated him for making a mockery out of Islam. I guess I need to ask around more.

 

[Safriz]

Hmmmmn the guys I knew who lived as teenagers through that time never really liked Zia ! Even the religious ones hated him for making a mockery out of Islam. I guess I need to ask around more.

He did use Islam for his Political benifit but he did a lot good too..The later outweighed the former...

No terrorism was tere..Loadshedding nowhere near as crazy as todays...USA actually did listen to Pakistan and so did the rest of the world,and you didnt feel ashamed of being a Pakistani..unlike today..
Most importantly he locked up all those theiving politicians and resources were used for good not for politician's bank accounts..
And yes..Food was cheap,so were utilities..

 

[Armstrong]

He did use Islam for his Political benifit but he did a lot good too..The later outweighed the former...

No terrorism was tere..Loadshedding nowhere near as crazy as todays...USA actually did listen to Pakistan and so did the rest of the world,and you didnt feel ashamed of being a Pakistani..unlike today..
Most importantly he locked up all those theiving politicians and resources were used for good not for politician's bank accounts..
And yes..Food was cheap,so were utilities..

If that is true then why is he always demonized for introducing regressive laws for women that incidentally, as per some, have no basis in the Shariah, sowed the seeds for militancy, extremism and sectaranism in our society and made life hell for the minorities of Pakistan ?

 

[Safriz]

If that is true then why is he always demonized for introducing regressive laws for women that incidentally, as per some, have no basis in the Shariah, sowed the seeds for militancy, extremism and sectaranism in our society and made life hell for the minorities of Pakistan ?

The thread is off topic already..
But PPP used him as demon a monster to regain their political foothold....They are good at creating Shaheeds,monsters and demons all in one go.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Police welfare committee kay liya Chanda juma karne Ae hoon gaye.

 

[Safriz]

Police welfare committee kay liya Chanda juma karne Ae hoon gaye.

These news "sensations" are picked up by foreign media via facebook where some of the punks may have let off their frusteration....and made a mountain out of mole hill...