RAFALE VS F-16 BLOCK52+

[Pfpilot]

That is an interesting point MastanKhan, the French do seem to greatly overprice their products and struggle with the sales pitch. On the other hand, you are greatly underestimating the f-16. The Rafale may be better than the f-16, assuming we are talking about the versions proposed to India, but the difference is marginally so. The reality is, with high off bore sight missiles and hms, the superior euro canard induced maneuvering becomes a less of an advantage.
At longer ranges, with both employing AESA radars and the latest jamming equipment, the difference in the two aircraft is really the tactics and the bvr missile employed...Id tend to pick the amraam over the mica, but more knowledgeable members would be better able to shed light on that comparison.

 

[blackops]

Sir,

That is not the reason---rafael is an extremely superior aircraft----the problem with the french is that they don't have the american car salesman mentality as the american defence industry has----.

First---the french are arrogant in their deal making----they don't have the mental capacity to make a deal----they lack the power of negotiation----they don't understand the concept of ' getting your foot in the door ' type of business dealing----. Right from the gitgo---they want to start high---with a complete package deal of maximum equipment----.

It shows ---that they were not able to sell their biggest user of mirage aircraft---pakistan---their aircraft---. A rafael would have been an excellent choice for pak air force if the french were willing to talk.

but what about the price 80 million $ a piece

 

[ramu]

but what about the price 80 million $ a piece

With TOT and source code + AESA, I would say a win win price.

 

[foxbat]

Please do not start another thread of this bs. Dude there is no comparison, the only plan come in that category are ef, rafale, and grippen at current situation and also f18. Other then that go fish..... paf currently have over 14 billion they can think of something really good. I wat india to choose rafale so that we can think about grippen or ef if it comes to that.

14 billion what??

 

[guest11]

Sir,

That is not the reason---rafael is an extremely superior aircraft----the problem with the french is that they don't have the american car salesman mentality as the american defence industry has----.

First---the french are arrogant in their deal making----they don't have the mental capacity to make a deal----they lack the power of negotiation----they don't understand the concept of ' getting your foot in the door ' type of business dealing----. Right from the gitgo---they want to start high---with a complete package deal of maximum equipment----.

It shows ---that they were not able to sell their biggest user of mirage aircraft---pakistan---their aircraft---. A rafael would have been an excellent choice for pak air force if the french were willing to talk.

I beg to differ Sir. French are excellent businessmen and somewhat money hungry people. They are the only major Western nation who maintained independent foreign policy and deterred the US pressure on numerous occasions. They are the fourth largest arms exporter. China has more muscles than France but they still lag behind in exports or rather High tech exports.

They even managed to sell Russians a couple of full fledged Mistral class, a country which never bought a single defense item from a western nation since ww2. So that rounds up their business tactics.

Israel was also a Mirage user and even used it in combat but preferred F-16 because of military aid and political reasons just like Pakistan. Many Israeli pilots still consider Mirage as the best they ever had. As for the Rafael, I don't think Pakistan can afford it, J-10b is a better option.

F-16 is already a 30 years old platform and it won't be feasible for another 30 despite of all the goodies Santa is offering.

 

[Storm Force]

Regardless of which fighter wins MRCA typhoon or Rafael i,m sure hardline PDF members will claim the F16/52 to be match due to Awacs and better combat record.

But they will fail to accept that

Rafale is a brand new state of the art airframe with 1/3rd the RCS of the F16
Rafale for mmrca will carry the new RBE2 AESA radar with Gan technolgy (a new generation of aesa tech)
That the meteore BVR which will come with the fighter is a ramjet new generation MISSLE 15 years ahead of the standard amraam. in F16/52
WITH 70% greater range superior flight and speed.
That the Rafale carries cockpit electronics and new generation SENSORS only available on late model teen fighters exclusive to USA alone.

Finally that IAF spent 6 months trialing Rafale & Typhoon & F16/60 the best ever F16 BUILT (half a generation ahead of block52) and F16 lost ther competition on technical ability.

BY THE WAT BLOCK 60 COST $80M EACH = old airframe but great radar
Rafale costs $90m brand new state of art airframe 4.5 generation with much lower detectablity

i for one am delighted with the indian choice. VERY SMART move

 

[dbc]

Regardless of which fighter wins MRCA typhoon or Rafael i,m sure hardline PDF members will claim the F16/52 to be match due to Awacs and better combat record.

But they will fail to accept that

Rafale is a brand new state of the art airframe with 1/3rd the RCS of the F16
Rafale for mmrca will carry the new RBE2 AESA radar with Gan technolgy (a new generation of aesa tech)
That the meteore BVR which will come with the fighter is a ramjet new generation MISSLE 15 years ahead of the standard amraam. in F16/52
WITH 70% greater range superior flight and speed.
That the Rafale carries cockpit electronics and new generation SENSORS only available on late model teen fighters exclusive to USA alone.

Finally that IAF spent 6 months trialing Rafale & Typhoon & F16/60 the best ever F16 BUILT (half a generation ahead of block52) and F16 lost ther competition on technical ability.

BY THE WAT BLOCK 60 COST $80M EACH = old airframe but great radar
Rafale costs $90m brand new state of art airframe 4.5 generation with much lower detectablity

i for one am delighted with the indian choice. VERY SMART move

Sorry but count me among the PDF members who believe PAF will defend its air space successfully, the Rafale or Typhoon notwithstanding.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

@ Indians....

F-16 Blk 52 is far better then Rafale.....

Now calm down you Indians.....

Sorry but count me among the PDF members who believe PAF will defend its air space successfully, the Rafale or Typhoon notwithstanding.

Count me too....

 

[Varad]

Regardless of which fighter wins MRCA typhoon or Rafael i,m sure hardline PDF members will claim the F16/52 to be match due to Awacs and better combat record.

But they will fail to accept that

Rafale is a brand new state of the art airframe with 1/3rd the RCS of the F16
Rafale for mmrca will carry the new RBE2 AESA radar with Gan technolgy (a new generation of aesa tech)
That the meteore BVR which will come with the fighter is a ramjet new generation MISSLE 15 years ahead of the standard amraam. in F16/52
WITH 70% greater range superior flight and speed.
That the Rafale carries cockpit electronics and new generation SENSORS only available on late model teen fighters exclusive to USA alone.

Finally that IAF spent 6 months trialing Rafale & Typhoon & F16/60 the best ever F16 BUILT (half a generation ahead of block52) and F16 lost ther competition on technical ability.

BY THE WAT BLOCK 60 COST $80M EACH = old airframe but great radar
Rafale costs $90m brand new state of art airframe 4.5 generation with much lower detectablity

i for one am delighted with the indian choice. VERY SMART move

I am also delighted for Rafale but India should speed up the procurement process .Get these 126 fighters as fast as possible and order the next 100

 

[Last Hope]

Well, I always come with this theory.

What always matters is:

i) Pilots experiences and capability to cope with situiations.
ii) Equipment of Aircraft (AMRAAMs\BVRs)
iii) Radar and ground control.


With them, you can fight a Su-30 MKI with a JF-17. Just terrorise the hearts of enemy with your power.

Interesting thread, nice read.

 

[koushik]

That is an interesting point MastanKhan, the French do seem to greatly overprice their products and struggle with the sales pitch. On the other hand, you are greatly underestimating the f-16. The Rafale may be better than the f-16, assuming we are talking about the versions proposed to India, but the difference is marginally so. The reality is, with high off bore sight missiles and hms, the superior euro canard induced maneuvering becomes a less of an advantage.
At longer ranges, with both employing AESA radars and the latest jamming equipment, the difference in the two aircraft is really the tactics and the bvr missile employed...Id tend to pick the amraam over the mica, but more knowledgeable members would be better able to shed light on that comparison.

The Rafale in terms of WVR Combat is more manouverable than the Blk-52+ because of the canards and in terms of WVR Combat the missiles carried by the Rafale are also advanced.The rafale

 

[koushik]

That is an interesting point MastanKhan, the French do seem to greatly overprice their products and struggle with the sales pitch. On the other hand, you are greatly underestimating the f-16. The Rafale may be better than the f-16, assuming we are talking about the versions proposed to India, but the difference is marginally so. The reality is, with high off bore sight missiles and hms, the superior euro canard induced maneuvering becomes a less of an advantage.
At longer ranges, with both employing AESA radars and the latest jamming equipment, the difference in the two aircraft is really the tactics and the bvr missile employed...Id tend to pick the amraam over the mica, but more knowledgeable members would be better able to shed light on that comparison.

The Rafale in terms of WVR Combat is more manouverable than the Blk-52+ because of the canards and in terms of WVR Combat the missiles carried by the Rafale are also advanced.The rafale carries the MICA IR Guided medium range AAM with a minimum range of 500m,the MBDA ASRAAM will also be carried as compared to AIM-9M Sidewinders on the F-16.In terms of BVR Combat the Rafale slightly edges out the BLk-52+ as the Rafale uses the MICA radar guided AAM with 60km range,the revolutionary MBDA Meteor with over a 120+ km range will also be used as opposed to the AIM-120C BVRAAM on the F-16.The RBE2 AA AESA Radar is superior to the APG-68 V(9) MSA Radar.The Optronique Secteur Frontal (OSF) sensor suite and the SPECTRA EW Suite takes the rafale past the F-16 Blk-52+.A better comparison would be the F-16IN Super Viper Block-70.

 

[IND151]

rafale is better than f 16 block 52+.

 

[Silk]

rafale is better than f 16 block 52+.

based on what? If later development then the LCA would be better then Rafale.

 

[SR 71 Blackbird]

Rafale vs Blk 52+ is like Messi vs Japanese striker.