Rafale : STOBAR compatible

[tvsram1992]

That's wrong! Again, STOBAR and CATOBAR carriers only differ in their take off system, the landing is the same!

The procedure/concept for landing(AR) might be same but the configuration of carrier would be different like wiring the carrier which itself is most important part for the design . Other parameter would be linking Rafales with Russian/Indian carrier systems which would again be costly . Our carriers cant land Rafales with out any modification neither French carriers can land Mig29Ks . You know wiring costs few million bucks extra .

 

[kirankumar299]

We have already bought fighters for the IAC 1 and Gorshkov. The IAC 2 will come in 2022 or beyond(most probably 2025). There is a good chance the naval version of Pak-Fa will become ready by then, if it is then the Rafale has no chance of making it into the indian navy.

Please correct me if i'm wrong....you mean to say Mig-29K's without weapons? or LCA Navy version under development?

 

[tvsram1992]

Please correct me if i'm wrong....you mean to say Mig-29K's without weapons? or LCA Navy version under development?

By the time our carriers are operational we would have done enough training on our Mig29ks with weapons . You can expect N-Tejas by the time we get IAC 1 for point defence role .

 

[RISING SUN]

We have already bought fighters for the IAC 1 and Gorshkov. The IAC 2 will come in 2022 or beyond(most probably 2025). There is a good chance the naval version of Pak-Fa will become ready by then, if it is then the Rafale has no chance of making it into the indian navy.

Why every body is making same mistake over & over again. India purchased Harriers in equal no as required to station on the ship but we forgot that if a jet crashes then our carrier capability is going down. If we are talking about our first two carriers then should purchase at the least 90 carrier borne fighter aircraft considering replacement of downed fighters. 60 for carriers 30 in reserve. It means we will have 50% more jet in a crisis to perform even much better role. So there is a chance that IN may try it.

 

[pilli]

It doesnt matter if Rafale is stationed or Mig29k because all are expensive and Indians have bad record of landing . The carrier will be seen by the enemy way before they attack , after takeoff these planes wouldnt have any base to land rofl:

 

[sancho]

The procedure/concept for landing(AR) might be same but the configuration of carrier would be different like wiring the carrier which itself is most important part for the design . Other parameter would be linking Rafales with Russian/Indian carrier systems which would again be costly . Our carriers cant land Rafales with out any modification neither French carriers can land Mig29Ks . You know wiring costs few million bucks extra .

No the config is the same, both our carriers will have an angled deck for arrested landing and the wires don't differ between Russian or French fighter, all you need to adjust ist the weight of the different fighters, but since Rafale M is lighter than Mig 29K, that's not an issue either. So no change for the carrier needed!

 

[kurup]

It doesnt matter if Rafale is stationed or Mig29k because all are expensive and Indians have bad record of landing . The carrier will be seen by the enemy way before they attack , after takeoff these planes wouldnt have any base to land rofl:

No surprise ..as usual a chinese troll with megaton BS .........rofl:

 

[tvsram1992]

No the config is the same, both our carriers will have an angled deck for arrested landing and the wires don't differ between Russian or French fighter, all you need to adjust ist the weight of the different fighters, but since Rafale M is lighter than Mig 29K, that's not an issue either. So no change for the carrier needed!

1.You really have no idea about that buddy , if it was possible do you think IN would have gone for Russian fighters leaving more potent Rafale/F18SH if it was as simple as you speak in words ? A carrier needs modification or aircraft needs few external modification to make them compatible to land .
2.Integration with Rafale to carrier communications should be done , which is a complex task and expensive too .
3.The wiring should be done as to make Rafales hook fixes perfectly in it or rafale hook should be modified . Weight is not a problem as both are of similar class .

 

[Capt.Popeye]

1.You really have no idea about that buddy , if it was possible do you think IN would have gone for Russian fighters leaving more potent Rafale/F18SH if it was as simple as you speak in words ? A carrier needs modification or aircraft needs few external modification to make them compatible to land .
2.Integration with Rafale to carrier communications should be done , which is a complex task and expensive too .
3.The wiring should be done as to make Rafales hook fixes perfectly in it or rafale hook should be modified . Weight is not a problem as both are of similar class .

Hi tvsram1992,

This is the second post where you are talking about wiring differences etc. which in your opinion will not permit a Rafale to be recovered on a STOBAR carrier like INS Vikramaditya.

For the sake of clarity, would you care to explain specifically what wiring are you talking about.
The steel arrestor wires that are used for recovery of aircraft? Or the internal wiring i.e. electrical cabling used for comms. command and control. I am able to make some guesses, but its better that you clarify it since you are using non-technical terminology to make your point.

Then it will become easier to resolve the issues raised in your posts.

 

[sancho]

if it was possible do you think IN would have gone for Russian fighters

Yes, because they had no choice! The deal was buy 16 x Migs and get the carrier for free. Secondly, while Rafale and F18s can land on Vikramaditya, the later might not be able to take off, because of the high weight, the low TWR and the limited take off distance, so that is the real issue when we talk about STOBAR carriers and suitable fighters.

A carrier needs modification or aircraft needs few external modification to make them compatible to land .

A naval fighter that needs to land with arrested landing has strenghtened airframes and gears, as well as a hook and that is the same for Mig29K, Rafale M, F18SH, or even F35C, so they all could land on a STOBAR carrier as well, but the rest as explained above.

2.Integration with Rafale to carrier communications should be done , which is a complex task and expensive too .

Why? The navy just as the IAF uses common systems to be used with Russian, European and even US aircrafts. We now even get the same data links and IFF systems, so that is not an issue either. It's actually more costly to upgrade the Russian fighters with the necessary systems, because the European aircrafts already have them.

3.The wiring should be done as to make Rafales hook fixes perfectly in it or rafale hook should be modified . Weight is not a problem as both are of similar class

Again, the wires are the same for any aircraft, be it a Mig, a Rafale or even an E-2D on a possible future CATOBAR carrier. You only have to adjust the system according to the weight of the landing aircraft, but again the take off is the real issue, because not every aircraft can take off via ski-jump.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@tvsram1992,

Sancho has addressed most of the issues in post#25.
Just to clarify the issues a little further every CATOBAR aircraft is not STOBAR capable, in its Launch capability. The issue is not only of TWR, but also of optimised Control Surface Areas and Operability. In this era of FBW, even the FCS requirements may not identical for both modes of launching Aircraft from Carriers. That is as far as Launching of aircraft is concerned.

However for Recovery of aircraft on Carriers, there is no difference. So a CATOBAR capable aircraft may well be recoverable on a STOBAR Carrier.

If you had the Arrestor Wire systems in mind, when you talked about "wiring" in your posts, even that is no issue really. If you see the embarked Air Wings on a typical Large USN Carrier; it includes aircraft of different types and weight categories. Yet they are successfully Recovered or "Trapped" using the same Arrestor Wire arrangement regardless.

That is simply achieved by re-setting the hydraulic pressure setting on the large hydraulic Balancing Rams that are part of the system to absorb the shock-loading on the Arrestor Wires which differ (mainly) on Aircraft weights. That is precisely how the INS Vikrant (in its CATOBAR days) was able to Recover both Seahawks and Alizes.

About the other inter-operability matters, Sancho has already explained how any Aircraft can be guided (Talked Down) to a Recovery on the Carrier. That just depends on the Radar, VHF/UHF Comms. TACAN Beacon and IFF transponders which are adjustable and re-settable. That is certainly no issue in light of the difficulties that you mentioned.

Is there any other "wiring" that you have in mind as a major issue?