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Rafale sales to Taiwan?

fatman17

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interesting information in bold!


Taipei Times:
Tuesday, Oct 09, 2007, Page 8
Regardless of why the US government has been prevaricating on the sale of 66 F-16 fighter aircraft to Taiwan, it is increasingly apparent that the road ahead for weapons procurement from the US is going to be bumpy.

As China's military threat is not becoming any less severe, Taipei must find a way to pull itself out from this quandary. The solution is fairly simple -- shop elsewhere. Luckily, there is no shortage of companies and states eager to sell weaponry to countries in need.

When it comes to advanced fighter aircraft, two alternatives to the F-16 come to mind: Dassault's Rafale Multi-Role Combat Fighter and the Euro-fighter Typhoon. Both aircraft could meet Taiwan's defense needs, from air superiority to close air support. While both aircraft were initially developed for Europeans, their manufacturers have actively sought clients elsewhere.

So far, India, Libya and Switzerland have shown interest in acquiring the Rafale, which in recent years has lost out on South Korean and Moroccan bids to US-made F-15Ks and F-16s respectively. As for the Typhoon, Saudi Arabia has confirmed it will purchase 72 aircraft for ?4.43 billion (US$9.03 billion) and Japan has expressed an interest in making it its next-generation fighter aircraft, as have India and Pakistan.

But the acquisition of new aircraft involves more than just platforms. Cost, performance and interoperability must all be considered.

In terms of cost, the price tag per Rafale is approximately 47 million euros (US$66.5 million), the Typhoon is US$125.6 million, while the F-16C/D is US$45.5 million. In that respect, the F-16 has a clear advantage over its competitors.

But when it comes to performance, the latter is falling behind technologically, something that even US Air Force Lieutenant General Bruce Wright, the commander of US forces in Japan, admitted last month (Taiwan did seek the more advanced F-35, but the request was turned down by Washington).

Last is interoperability, the curveball often thrown by the US defense industry to defeat its competitors in the weapons market. With obvious exceptions, any country today that purchases weapons will seek to obtain platforms that can be seamlessly integrated with US capabilities -- something Taiwan would certainly desire in the advent of military confrontation in the Taiwan Strait.

Aware of this requirement, non-US defense contractors have ensured that their models are fully capable of operating alongside US weaponry. In other words, they are all NATO-compatible, as the successful use of the Rafale in the US-led mission in Afghanistan has shown. As such, if Taiwan were to purchase the Rafales or Typhoons rather than F-16s, interoperability with existing systems and with US systems in the region should not be a problem.

There would be other advantages to widening the list of potential defense contractors. For one, increased competition means that prices would likely go down. It would also diminish Taiwan's unhealthy reliance on the US to meet its defense needs, which puts it at risk when, as now, politics have a detrimental impact on defense acquisitions.

Lastly -- and perhaps most importantly -- the more countries that vie for Taiwanese defense money, the more complaints Beijing will have to make about the "unacceptable" sale of weapons to Taiwan. So far, it has only had to deliver complaints to the US.

In other words, by shopping around, Taiwan would prompt Beijing to make more belligerent demands with more countries -- perhaps alienating them in the process -- which could prove politically beneficial.
 
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Well if taiwan is able to lay its hands on rafale or eurofighter, it will gain the edge over their chinese counterparts in terms of technology. The best china could come up with are the J-10 and SU-30. Rafale or eurofighter is an all new league.
 
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This is good for the French contractors, but wouldn't this provoke the Chinese?

After the Sarkozy trip, Sino-French relations seems to be good with France walking away with billions in deals.
 
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interesting information in bold!


Taipei Times:
Tuesday, Oct 09, 2007, Page 8
As for the Typhoon, Saudi Arabia has confirmed it will purchase 72 aircraft for ?4.43 billion (US$9.03 billion) and Japan has expressed an interest in making it its next-generation fighter aircraft, as have India and Pakistan.


U guys r missing the point here!
 
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Pakistan already had expressed interest in EF 2000 as well as India as the jet alongside Rafale is a contender for the MRCA contract. In reality i am certain Rafale or the EF 2000 will be at the tail end of options as Pakistan is supposed to develop the J-10 or maybe wait for the "Super-10".
 
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PAF appears to be more interested in the upgraded J-10 - it has a stealthy airframe, higher-thrust engine, AESA radar and even reports of internal payload. Basically the upgraded J-10/FC-20 is poised to be in the same league as Rafale and EF. From 2009-2010 the upgraded J-10 will be the standard production fighter for PLAAF. EF/Rafale are overpriced, though Rafale may have a shot with the PN's naval requirement.
 
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I dont think it's possible for Taiwan to reach any deal for Rafale in recent years. however, Chenshuibian needs to pose uncompromisingly against the US suspension on F-16Block52, which is obviously the goal to suit their US style airforce system.
 
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having good relations with the US and they ask for the F35 why dont they go for the F22so far the only Thrust Vectoring Plane in the world ... they can easily get it may be ?
 
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having good relations with the US and they ask for the F35 why dont they go for the F22so far the only Thrust Vectoring Plane in the world ... they can easily get it may be ?

Currently, the Raptor is not for sale.

We won't even sell it to our closes allies in the pacific, Japan, Australia and South Korea.

What makes you think we would sell it to Taiwan?

I'd say, asking for the F-35 is already a wild shot.
 
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I think Pakistan should seriously start a project on a fifth generation fighter.

For Pakistan it is not possible to get involved in a new fighter plane as JF-17 needs to mature for a decade or so... having said that the infrustructure is to be organized for Production of JF-17, further research in getting it in league with the best of fighter planes and all....

Fifth generation planes are far i would say but Rafle and EF2000 are a good option to come in par with existing and future threats for atleast a decade.
 
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I don't think PAF will be importing 5th or even 4.5 generation fighters from the West as it is just too expensive - financially and politically. It is likely that the upgraded J-10 being tested by CAC is the FC-20, and the upgraded J-10 appears to be a 4.5 generation fighter. For 5th generation...I imagine PAF will either import the J-14/JXX, or join in the development of an export oriented project.

All FC-20, F-16 and JF-17 are to be in service by 2015...I imagine a 5th generation fighter would enter production in 2019, by which the South Korean KFX and Japanese ATD-X would be entering service. Personally I hope PAF is studying the feasibility of an F/A-22-like airframe...e.g. J-14, ATD-X.
 
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I don't think PAF will be importing 5th or even 4.5 generation fighters from the West as it is just too expensive - financially and politically. It is likely that the upgraded J-10 being tested by CAC is the FC-20, and the upgraded J-10 appears to be a 4.5 generation fighter. For 5th generation...I imagine PAF will either import the J-14/JXX, or join in the development of an export oriented project.

All FC-20, F-16 and JF-17 are to be in service by 2015...I imagine a 5th generation fighter would enter production in 2019, by which the South Korean KFX and Japanese ATD-X would be entering service. Personally I hope PAF is studying the feasibility of an F/A-22-like airframe...i.e. J-14, ATD-X.

As per the existing structure, can only recon that for decade or so, F-16, FC-20 (if inducted) and JF-17 will fly pakistani sky... Rafle and EF2000 not to be inducted if India selects similar MRCA is unlikely as per the modernization attitude of Airforce in this decade..
 
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