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Rafale proposal 'effectively dead' as Dassault bid not cheapest

Business Standard reporter is Ajai Shukla right. Isn't he the one who told that Ej 200 was selected when the actual news was it was Ge 414, and wasnt he the one who told that Eurofighter was the L1 bidder but it turned out to be Rafale...and even before the MMRCA deal selection process was over he told that Rafale was out of the race?
 
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What do you think of this?

Rafale proposal 'effectively dead' as Dassault bid not cheapest

Rafale proposal 'effectively dead' as Dassault bid not cheapest | Business Standard News

Any truth in this?

February 16, 2015 at 7:18 AM


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Prasun K. Sengupta said...
That's the cheapest form of yellow journalism. No one in the history of aviation has ever submitted a 'sketchy commercial bid' in response to a highly detailed RFQ document containing reams of forms to be filled up for technical evaluations & price evaluations. Indicative price-levels are never ever presented by anyone, rest assured.

PKS seems to have answered this query by someone already
So a rebuttal.. hmmmmm
Yellow journalism...
Yellow journalism, or the yellow press, is a type of journalism that presents little or no legitimate well-researched news and instead uses eye-catching headlines to sell more newspapers. Techniques may include exaggerations of news events, scandal-mongering, or sensationalism.
hmmmmmmm.....
 
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If the commercial bid covered everything, there would have been no need for negotiations :lol:

A media savvy govt. is know to use the media to prepare ground for bad news.
 
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forget media forget about everything for a second the million dollar question is why three long years and still dragging feet , everyone of us have their likes and dis like but why such a long delays ? what is stopping Dassault MOD IAF HAL from cracking the deal?
 
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forget media forget about everything for a second the million dollar question is why three long years and still dragging feet , everyone of us have their likes and dis like but why such a long delays ? what is stopping Dassault MOD IAF HAL from cracking the deal?
An incredibly complex an unprecedented negotiation process is why. The deal is huge and the technical aspects need to be discussed properly so there is no b*tching after the deal is signed.
 
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FF and SH were rejected beacuse they did not meet expectations and failed too pass tests set during evaluation process.

Besides these both plarforms are old partiaclury F 16 which entered service in early 1980s. F/A 18 Super Hornet itself is evolution of F/A-18.

They have limited growth potential.



They failed test mean they failed test. If tweaking their engines was possible, the US would have done so. Besides that is not the only reason for rejecting them.

at least you would have a birds in a sky and train pilots by now.
you would of gotten ToT and probably license rights to build the GE-404 engine too.
 
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An incredibly complex an unprecedented negotiation process is why. The deal is huge and the technical aspects need to be discussed properly so there is no b*tching after the deal is signed.

Just out of ignorance wasn't they supposed to look into all these aspects when announcing L1 and L2 bidder because after following this saga for years it was my understanding that For all the contenders the technical evaluation /LCC/ maintenance is what determines what is left to be done to win the contract. so how did they announce the winner without looking into the technical aspects that need to be discussed properly which they should have done before announcing the winner . since like you said there is no b*tching after the deal is signed.
 
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Just out of ignorance wasn't they supposed to look into all these aspects when announcing L1 and L2 bidder because after following this saga for years it was my understanding that For all the contenders the technical evaluation /LCC/ maintenance is what determines what is left to be done to win the contract. so how did they announce the winner without looking into the technical aspects that need to be discussed properly which they should have done before announcing the winner . since like you said there is no b*tching after the deal is signed.
The bids made would all have to have been compliment (up to a point) just to be allowed to take part in the evaluation and flight test phases. The subsequent "down-select" was based on the birds who met the IAF's technical criteria after rigorous testing in both India and outside and evaluations, then it came down to price for the L1 and L2 determination process and it was only then that the actual bids were scrutinised in great depth, this is the formula they followed and I am sure there is logic behind it.

I guess from a time saving point of view- it makes sense to only look at the bid who is found to be L1 look how long it has taken to go over these details with just one manufacturer, multiply that by 6 and this deal would never have been signed.
 
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Is it Obama effect?

or perhaps modi chickened out from the maneuvers of Siberian tiger
 
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don't forget to make some toilets as well



A Pakistani talking about empty purse :lol:. Even without changing GDP numbers , India is growing at 5.5%. World bank prediction is that India will surpass 6.5% growth rate by 2016. For Pakistan , that's would be distant dream. We have enough money to sign 100s of such deals, but we don't like to throw our money.
Now go back to begging China/Saudi or IMF for money. You desperately need it to buy some buses for Karachi and to build some power plants. You can spend the rest of the aid money to buy some "indigenous" JF 17s from China .
 
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I guess from a time saving point of view- it makes sense to only look at the bid who is found to be L1 look how long it has taken to go over these details with just one manufacturer, multiply that by 6 and this deal would never have been signed.
Exactly which is very unhealthy practice when you have to burn 20 billion dollars on the line. the way they handled this deal is amateurish as a project managing point of view . Because announcing the winner just by numbers and time saving point of view when the rules of the tender strictly says that The details in the technical evaluation report are most important for a contender to win. if you a say they announced it based on number then no fighter is a winner because they didn't look into all the aspects , and also this MMRCA saga is a stop gap measure to fill number then they should have gone Govt to Govt route to save time and money because even HAL is a Phase IV stage of manufacturing Su 30mki and we license manufacture both RD series of engines and Saturn AL-31 still we are struggling to use the inputs int our own indigenous fighter and engines . How this deal could be able to convince IAF Or GOI MMRCA gonna help indigenous industry because we will end up as another Phase IV stage entity for the MMRCA winner
 
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Exactly which is very unhealthy practice when you have to burn 20 billion dollars on the line. the why they handled this deal is amateurish as a project managing point of view . Because announcing the winner just by numbers and time saving point of view when the rules of the tender strictly says that The details in the technical evaluation report are most important for a contender to win. if you a say they announced it based on number then no fighter is a winner because they didn't look into all the aspects , and also this MMRCA saga is a stop gap measure to fill number then they should have gone Govt to Govt route to save time and money because even HAL is a Phase IV stage of manufacturing Su 30mki and we license manufacture both RD series of engines and Saturn AL-31 still we are struggling to use the inputs int our own indigenous fighter and engines . How this deal could be able to convince IAF Or GOI MMRCA gonna help indigenous industry because we will end up as another Phase IV stage entity for the MMRCA winner

A few quick points

- The deal is NOT worth $20 billion (more like $15 billion)
-The IAF's technical criteria were clearly prioritised here, that was made the deciding factor
-The MMRCA deal is different to the MKI ToT and will come with its own benefits for sure
 
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-The MMRCA deal is different to the MKI ToT and will come with its own benefits for sure

wasen't this the main culprit that is causing the delay and do you really believe that Dassault will bend after three years of negotiations and still going on
 
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wasen't this the main culprit that is causing the delay and do you really believe that Dassault will bend after three years of negotiations and still going on
Nope, ToT (surprisingly) hasn't really been an issue (it has been sorted out anyway), the main hurdle is about liability for the 108 Rafales to be built in India by HAL. The Indian side wants Dassualt to guarantee them even though they are not being made by Dassualt.
 
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Nope, ToT (surprisingly) hasn't really been an issue (it has been sorted out anyway), the main hurdle is about liability for the 108 Rafales to be built in India by HAL. The Indian side wants Dassualt to guarantee them even though they are not being made by Dassualt.

then if nobody gonna compromise then its will head to a dead lock the proposal is dead simple we are not getting those fighters. that what this is about even though i too don't agree with most of the points of Mr shukla. ill wait till the end of march and see hope i am wrong , the deal goes through and we get those fighters
 
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