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Rafale proposal 'effectively dead' as Dassault bid not cheapest

It is not about finding it wrong or correct. I certainly don't have sources in the MoD to prove it one way or the other. The point is simply about the attributing of motives and in this particular case, was about whether sources agree to be named.

You are contradicting yourself, because the content of the article is critical to understand if it's right or wrong and if there is nothing but speculations, you can't take it seriously and that's what I said in my first comment on it.
The rest is just based on the past record of the author of bad articles with fake arguments and obvious intends.
 
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Nor is there anything to suggest that the report is based on any credible infos. No named sources, mainly speculations no facts. Even if we assume that there was an issue with the life cycle cost of Rafale, the fact is, that this was investigated by the former MoD and nothing was found, just as the current government had reviewed the Rafale bid and kept doing it for the last 7 months, but the then DM Arun Jaitley confirmed the Rafale as L1 several times too:

Print Release

So where does the irregularities came from now? Not to mention that we see the government figures of France or EF partners, which constanly show that the EF has higher operational costs than the Rafale, which makes it more than unlikely that it could had been L1.

EFT would not be a choice.Because those 4 nation consortium fighte is much expensive than this.
 
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You are contradicting yourself, because the content of the article is critical to understand if it's right or wrong and if there is nothing but speculations, you can't take it seriously and that's what I said in my first comment on it.
The rest is just based on the past record of the author of bad articles with fake arguments and obvious intends.


No contradiction at all. Read my posts, I defended the right to have a differing opinion without a motive being attributed to it.
 
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Guys please all look at the latest interview with the Dassualt CEO and indian MoS defence I have posted in the Rafale sticky, comprehensively refutes this verbal diarrhoea.

I'm on my phone right now otherwise I would provide the link.
 
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In India defence issues like these are transperant to entire public .But AFAIK entire defence matters in PRC are absolute opaque.So even if a powerful person in PRC military did q thing like this how can you get those info.After all your entire knowledge is just based on CCP news.

In India things are way different .I hope you can understand.
the way of dealing with those making fatal faults are different in both country.
 
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the way of dealing with those making fatal faults are different in both country.

How do you know even if a mistake happens in there ?Here we have whistle blowers .Do you have something like that ?
 
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How do you know even if a mistake happens in there ?Here we have whistle blowers .Do you have something like that ?
of course we have, China is now actually a capitalism country you know? We got bunch of whistle blower here.
 
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of course we have, China is now actually a capitalism country you know? We got bunch of whistle blower here.

Absolute free media with total independance ?
If yes Then I will agree with you.
 
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China now is very free, unless you gonna slander the government.

So you are making comment about us with these much of freedom sense.
What kind of freedom is that ?
In here Media main duty is to criticise Govt.
 
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Sir/s, sorry for asking this unrelated question on Rafale thread but since many Indian defence experts are here pls allow me the liberty of asking this question that has been vexing me greatly.

Bofors was always considered a very good gun, technically. Forget the scam for a moment (amateur levels of money, by today's standards anyways ....)

But I have heard that Indian Govt since that time has not bought a single new gun. So are we still using those aging Bofors? Are we not planning on buying some good replacement any time soon? Wasn't there some news of Tata building a gun?

I can understand tanks and helicopters and planes are complex pieces of equipment. But what stops us from making a really big gun? I mean, from the looks of it, its a really long tube/metal pipe, moving around on two wheels .... (asking seriously)

Thanks.

The answer is an ugly one.

Many of the Indian Army top brass and MoD officials used to be corrupt and of questionable integrity. So no one wanted to take a decision which can be challenged and which can lead into an investigation into their conduct over the years.

Its only the totally clean officers who can take a Strong Stand and stick to his "guns", unfortunately such officers rarely make it up to the top. Most promotions at that level is always based on quid pro quo under an indifferent govt.

Now that the PMO is clean, there is hope for good clean officers to raise to the top. Hopefully the new govt. will put policies in place that will reduce subjective decision making which can be challenged.
 
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Why not EFT sir ?

Too many people to deal with ...

OK




Hornet has limited growth potencial, gripnen has amercian engine and several people accuse that much data about gripn is forged.


Hornet's growth potential is as Silent Hornet, which is with best of AESA and almost stealthy.

Oh Gripen has American engine, which one? GE414? That one which we are going to mass produce for our own jet for generations to come and possibly AMCA too....

Seriously dude.
 
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Option 1 > Keep calm and negotiate an acceptable price for rafale, expand scope to 200 units.

Option 2> Scrap the deal completely, Buy two squadrons of Mig29K -as the line is still active, Work on LCA mk2 and fast track it - Increase numbers to 200 units, Wait for PMF FGFA and Single Seat Pakfa to arrive.
 
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You want speculation and how one article from Ajai (broadsword) is being taken up by supporters/speculators. I am pasting how russian media is spinning this.. see below

India will not buy Rafale jets from France due to high prices - media

India will not be buying French Rafale fighter jets due to their high prices, the Monday edition of Business Standard reported, citing sources in the Indian Ministry of Defense.

Earlier, Indian media reported that the Ministry of Defense of India might refuse to purchase 126 fighters for its Air Force from Rafale, which won the tender in 2012, and instead buy the Russian Su-30MKI.

According to the Business Standard, three years of negotiations between representatives of Rafale and the Ministry of Defense of India revealed that the proposal submitted by the Dassault Company was more expensive than that of its tender competitor – the Eurofighter Typhoon, and not cheaper, as the Ministry of Defense initially announced on January 31, 2012.

“No representative of the Ministry of Defense can approve a contract with Dassault, which will now surpass $20 billion, seeing that the Rafale is now the most inexpensive option,” said an official close to the committee negotiating the contract terms.

According to the publication, the tender for the purchase of 126 medium multi-role fighters was the first time that the Indian Ministry of Defense has calculated the lifecycle cost of the aircraft, rather than just the purchase price. This meant that the winner of the tender was to be the fighter jet with the lowest overall costs in terms of purchase price, operation, and maintenance during the entire 30-40 years of the aircraft’s service life, rather than just the lowest initial price.

“The Ministry of Defense, in considering the incomplete conceptual design project from Dassault, incorrectly judged the Rafale as being the cheaper option. Now, three years later, when we finally received the clear figures from the French, we discovered that India would be spending significantly more than was originally supposed,” said the publication’s source.

Meanwhile, Indian media are writing that the Indian defense establishment is now seriously thinking about dropping the French fighter jet in favor of the better Russian Su-30MKI, which Indian pilots are familiar with, and which is being assembled under license at an Indian company Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar also noted the fact that the Su-30MKI meets the requirements of the Indian Air Force. However, the defense establishment has not officially confirmed that it is considering replacing the Rafale with the Su-30MKI.



India will not buy Rafale jets from France due to high prices - media | Russia & India Report



India Scraps Rafale Fighter Deal With France, Eyes Russian Alternative




India has scrapped a deal with France to buy 126 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA), after three years of negotiations, due to the high cost of the project.


India has announced that a deal to buy 126 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) from French manufacturer Dassault Aviation is “effectively dead”.


The reason is the announced high cost of the overall project, according to the country’s online newspaper Business Standard.

The global tender for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) was the first time the Indian Ministry of Defense (MoD) had awarded a contract based on life cycle costing (LCC). This meant the winner of the tender would not be the fighter with the cheapest purchase price; instead the chosen fighter would be the one that was the cheapest to buy, fly, maintain and overhaul over its 30-40 year service life.

As per the original tender, eighteen of the 126 planes were supposed to be purchased directly from Dassault, while Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) was due to manufacture the other 108 under license at a to-be-built facility in the city of Bangalore.

Dassault Aviation has refused to take full responsibility for these 108 fighters to be manufactured in India, which automatically increased the overall cost of the whole project.


Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has recently said that Sukhoi-30 MKI fighters, which had been built by Hindustan Aeronautics at its Nashik plant, could be substituted for them, according to the website IndiaSpend.

The Sukhoi-30 MKI is currently India’s most advanced fighter and forms the backbone of its air force. It’s also half the current cost of a Rafale.

The Indian Air Force first signed a deal with the Russian government to purchase eight air defense Su-30K and 32 multi-role Su-30 MK aircraft in 1996. IAF bought an additional 10 Su-30 MKs in December 1998.

India Scraps Rafale Fighter Deal With France, Eyes Russian Alternative / Sputnik International



One article from "Un-named sources from MOD" and all hell breaks loose... Let Rafale lose out but pls for that let MOD or DM say that instead of such a article. The immaturity is appalling.
 
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