‘Rafale is as good as any 5th-generation aircraft’: French defence minister

[anonymus]

True... but as of right now? not really... also even the radar etc... will be imported even under the license...



None of those were assembled by HAL india?

Total Indigenisation OF Indian Sukhoi Su-30MKI Fighter Plane Next Year : HAL | ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS ( a 2009 news)

And licence produced since 2004

The first fully indigenous Su-30MKI fighter plane will roll off Indian assembly lines in 2010, a top executive at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited said on Wednesday.

“Next year, HAL will achieve 100 per cent indigenisation of the Sukhoi aircraft — from the production of raw materials to the final plane assembly,” V. Balakrishnan, general manager, Aircraft Manufacturing Division, told.

A five-member HAL delegation is taking part in MAKS-2009, Russia’s international air show now under way here.

Out of the 230 Su-30MKI air superiority multirole fighters the Indian Air Force plans to induct by 2015, 140 aircraft are to be built in India. License production began in 2004, with the first planes assembled from knockdown kits supplied by Russia. The programme provided for a gradual increase in the number of parts and components produced locally.

Last year, HAL mastered the manufacture of the wing and the tail. This year, it started producing the fuselage and raw materials, Mr. Balakrishnan said. The final and most challenging phase involved the indigenous manufacture of the engine.
“We’re currently testing the locally produced engine for the Su-30MKI and are planning to launch its production in 2010.” HAL would manufacture 60 Su-30MKI fighters in the full production cycle till 2015, he said.
India also plans to sign an inter-governmental agreement (IGA) with Russia for supply of HAL-manufactured Sukhoi airframes for third countries. It is already supplying some avionics equipment for Sukhoi aircraft Russia is building for third countries.

Later this year, India and Russia would sign a design accord for a fifth generation fighter aircraft they agreed to build jointly in 2007. India would be responsible for the manufacture of composite-material parts of the airframe, avionics and software packages, Mr. Balakrishnan said.
The Russian single-seat version of the fifth generation fighter plane is expected to make its maiden flight in the coming winter. India will induct a twin-seat version

 

[Kloitra]

None of those were assembled by HAL india?

I never said India assembled/manufactured any. I only commented on his claims, which were without basis (not that he could provide any).

Besides, the claim India know not how to maintain is fictitious. As the only plane you frequently hear about is 50 year old design, over aged Mig21, which has had spares and support issue post Soviet. Crash rate for others are not uncommon for any airforce.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

If you had the choice to buy the Rafale I would have seen Chinese place the same order. As you people are sanctioned by the European union and the US you have no other choice but to look at Russian weapons and reverse engineer stuff.

Wrong, if we have choice, we will only buy few samples of Rafales or buy Rafale technologies to make its ourself such as the case of our Z-9 (Dophin), we certainly not going to put our security fate into other people's hands by ordering large quantities and depend on them for service.

India has never tasted the effect of sanction yet so you don't know the pain: During Sino-Soviet split in 1960s , Russians have pulled out their technicians and technical assistance, our airplane were nailed to ground, virtually all military hardwares were non operation due of the lake of spare parts and qualifies technician to maintain its. We have bad taste of what call "sanction" so we don't trust anyone but ourself to keep our military operational, so copy was a way keep our military harware operation and we have no shame of that.

 

[jhungary]

Wrong, if we have choice, we will only buy few samples of Rafales or buy Rafale technologies to make its ourself such as the case of our Z-9 (Dophin), we certainly not going to put our security fate into other people's hands by ordering large quantities and depend on them for service.

India has never tasted the effect of sanction yet so you don't know the pain: During Sino-Soviet split in 1960s , Russians have pulled out their technicians and technical assistance, our airplane were nailed to ground, virtually all military hardwares were non operation due of the lake of spare parts and qualifies technician to maintain its. We have bad taste of what call "sanction" so we don't trust anyone but ourself to keep our military operational, so copy was a way keep our military harware operation and we have no shame of that.

actually India did tasted the effect of sanction during 1990s after they done the nuclear test. Hence Indian member here have doubt on US weaponry as US did sanction India back in 1990, so did Japan and China....after UN Passed resolution 1172

 

[Kloitra]

Wrong, if we have choice, we will only buy few samples of Rafales or buy Rafale technologies to make its ourself such as the case of our Z-9 (Dophin), we certainly not going to put our security fate into other people's hands by ordering large quantities and depend on them for service.

India has never tasted the effect of sanction yet so you don't know the pain: During Sino-Soviet split in 1960s , Russians have pulled out their technicians and technical assistance, our airplane were nailed to ground, virtually all military hardwares were non operation due of the lake of spare parts and qualifies technician to maintain its. We have bad taste of what call "sanction" so we don't trust anyone but ourself to keep our military operational, so copy was a way keep our military harware operation and we have no shame of that.

What China did was necessary for it. You need not be shamed for it, and it helped a lot to your local industries. But the assertion that India never tasted sanctions is false, as twice (74 and 99) did India was sanctioned. The much criticised LCA was delayed due to sanctions.

But difference is that China chosed to and afforded to live in isolation. India didn't. China chosed the path of reverse engineering to avoid reinventing the wheel, and became international pariah in the process. India used more cooperative methods. Neither is wrong, to each his own.

 

[Obambam]

Sometime i feel like majority of indians here are from khangress party of india.... What chinese are doing here? Shows what chinese are worried. You idi0ts the rafale far better than J-20s fatty junk box. Dassualt rafale is true omni role jet fighter who did well among other jet fighters. Its semi-stealth and carries nuke warheads including it can change its role according to situation. No wonder why chinese are in panic.... France is the only country who would never impose ban on india. Israel the other and may be russia too. Rafale is as good as any 5th generation fighter.... Please do not compare it with chinese junk j-20s. They are just a fatty show piece. F-22 raptor fighter pilots wish was he want to fly dassualt rafale after getting beaten up in air....
The Aviationist » Rare video shows F-22 Raptor shot down by the French Rafale in mock air-to-air combat

Common dude, lets be civilized and cut the anger. You are feeding evil greys your negative energy again.

Rafale have not yet proven itself against any of the 5th gen in real combat environment and regardless of the usual rhetorics, it is 'still' only classed as 4th gen.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Sometime i feel like majority of indians here are from khangress party of india.... What chinese are doing here? Shows what chinese are worried. You idi0ts the rafale far better than J-20s fatty junk box. Dassualt rafale is true omni role jet fighter who did well among other jet fighters. Its semi-stealth and carries nuke warheads including it can change its role according to situation. No wonder why chinese are in panic.... France is the only country who would never impose ban on india. Israel the other and may be russia too. Rafale is as good as any 5th generation fighter.... Please do not compare it with chinese junk j-20s. They are just a fatty show piece. F-22 raptor fighter pilots wish was he want to fly dassualt rafale after getting beaten up in air....
The Aviationist » Rare video shows F-22 Raptor shot down by the French Rafale in mock air-to-air combat

, we Chinese are here to admire Indian's 5th gen fighters, we're so envy that you got two 5th gen fighters: Rafale and T-50, as for the rest of your statement, I consider that as UFO ( Un-Founded-Orgasm)

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Total Indigenisation OF Indian Sukhoi Su-30MKI Fighter Plane Next Year : HAL | ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS ( a 2009 news)

And licence produced since 2004

Cool story... what happened to the "new indigenous engine for su-30 under going tests"...


Here is a more recent news and not from a "blog":

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=vlSwCNNyeMIX5whp5S7KUA&bvm=bv.49784469,d.dmg

P.S : read assembling started in 2004... and increase of parts with time... and till last year... read the above news...

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Wrong, if we have choice, we will only buy few samples of Rafales or buy Rafale technologies to make its ourself such as the case of our Z-9 (Dophin), we certainly not going to put our security fate into other people's hands by ordering large quantities and depend on them for service.

India has never tasted the effect of sanction yet so you don't know the pain: During Sino-Soviet split in 1960s , Russians have pulled out their technicians and technical assistance, our airplane were nailed to ground, virtually all military hardwares were non operation due of the lake of spare parts and qualifies technician to maintain its. We have bad taste of what call "sanction" so we don't trust anyone but ourself to keep our military operational, so copy was a way keep our military harware operation and we have no shame of that.

After the Sino-Soviet split you ran to BAe systems and Northropp who helped you re build your military industry which went on till 1989 when you massacred the Tibetians protesting in Tianamen. By luck the Soviet Union split and you offered a high pay for the Russian engineers and hired them along with reverse engineering all of their technology. But still you could not attract the big shots of the Soviet defence industries and could not set up an environment to work with them properly.

Everyone knows the whole history. We never needed to reverse engineer stuff as we always managed to get the best that the world always offered. We always had a strong diplomatic front who walked the knife's edge to secure us our needs.

Reverse engineering was a choice in China and India when you people chose it we did not.

 

[tvsram1992]

sales man fake publicity

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

What China did was necessary for it. You need not be shamed for it, and it helped a lot to your local industries. But the assertion that India never tasted sanctions is false, as twice (74 and 99) did India was sanctioned. The much criticised LCA was delayed due to sanctions.

But difference is that China chosed to and afforded to live in isolation. India didn't. China chosed the path of reverse engineering to avoid reinventing the wheel, and became international pariah in the process. India used more cooperative methods. Neither is wrong, to each his own.

India sanction was minor compare to China, when U.S sanctionned India, you guys still had U.R.S.S as military and technical assistance. On China's case, during 1960s, we had no option, U.R.S.S and U.S were both the enemies.

 

[Kloitra]

India sanction was minor compare to China, when U.S sanctionned India, you guys still had U.R.S.S as military and technical assistance. On China's case, during 1960s, we had no option, U.R.S.S and U.S were both the enemies.

There is also threat perception. You made enemies with both superpowers. India was up against Pakistan, and to a lesser extent China. Never needed the kind of builtup that China did. Your leaders always placed military on high priority. In India's case, it was never so. Its defence needs were fulfilled by imports, despite sanctions. It was after the 99' sanctions, when LCA program was hit that they realized need to revamp the defence industry.

Before that, the seriousness of earlier sanctions probably didn't hurt the military much, that a serious need for indigenous programs be felt.

TBH I don't have much of knowledge regarding sanctions on India, so cant put a fair argument. But point remains, sanctions on China were hard enough to start indigenous industries. In India's case, it tried to remove the sanctions and get foreign cooperation. Both used an approach which they thought is good for them.

 

[Bullet500]

India sanction was minor compare to China, when U.S sanctionned India, you guys still had U.R.S.S as military and technical assistance. On China's case, during 1960s, we had no option, U.R.S.S and U.S were both the enemies.

bro its USSR.

Very true we had russia as a friend. We are behind because of lazy babus and corruption. I really appreciate the hard work of chinese and farsightedness of your leaders. Well democracy has its drawbacks you know.

And Rafale is a 4.5 gen fighter only thing it is missing is stealth. But with true stealth aircraft your approach to missions changes drastically! So it will remain a lot different than a stealth fighter.

 

[AADHAAR]

Common dude, lets be civilized and cut the anger. You are feeding evil greys your negative energy again.

Rafale have not yet proven itself against any of the 5th gen in real combat environment and regardless of the usual rhetorics, it is 'still' only classed as 4th gen.

Off course, Rafale isn't 5th gen. (only the french claim that its close.. and there they try emphasise non-stealth advanced technologies).

However, India doesn't really need Rafale to defend (or counter-attack) against a 5th gen aircraft, as yet. Just some pictures of J-20 don't proves that it is as stealthy as F-22. "J-20" is nothing but a claim .. and as some chinese forummers point out .. a claim of only fanboys.

To be honest, Rafale easily looks an over-kill, if IAF were to assess the capabilities of PLAAF or PAF. The current Su-30MKIs are adequate.

But the context of Rafales is entirely different... India is actually buying technologies. And that is why there is no urgency to close to the deal on India's part. (since, there is no urgent defence need). For buying the technologies, lets negotiate a good deal for ourselves.

Rafales does have some advanced technologies, which are indeed better than even Su-30MKI.

 

[gslv mk3]

Cool story... what happened to the "new indigenous engine for su-30 under going tests"...


Here is a more recent news and not from a "blog":

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=vlSwCNNyeMIX5whp5S7KUA&bvm=bv.49784469,d.dmg

P.S : read assembling started in 2004... and increase of parts with time... and till last year... read the above news.
..

When did India had an indigenous engine program of Su30MKI??last time whenI gave you list of Indian developed parts in Su 30 MKI I got no replies from you...and HAL has produced many jet Enginesnes including that of Su 30 in India,heck it even designed a turbojet back in the 60s

And If you are mocking Kaveri,let me tell you,as a citizen of a country which cannot design car engines,you should
keep quiet