RAFALE DEAL : That Bird In The Sky

[axisofevil]

It is unjustified that the politicians are giving the statement - "Brazil scrapped the deal. Then why is India insisting on it ". But whatever happens, Rafael is the demand of the IAF.

Our armed forces are not free from corruption. There are cases and there are those that have been swept away. No other country has bought these planes. In case, you didn;t what I posted earlier, France uses bribery as a tool to clinch deals. Seeing how corrupt Congress is.....there is no telling. Remembe, General Kapoor demanded T 72 and T 90s with no night vision among other deficiencies.

Kickbacks will occur even if govt. switches to Typhoon which is much more expensive and as capable (varies in role).

Just buy the 126 Rafale now and the extra 63 in a later batch which might include the Rafale M for INS Vishal or if Mig 29k shortage then even INS Vikrant.

That mentality needs to stop NOW. No more kickbacks......the modus operandi needs to clinched. Modi at the helm can make a bigger difference than Sonia.

 

[Vinayak Tiwari]

Our armed forces are not free from corruption. There are cases and there are those that have been swept away. No other country has bought these planes. In case, you didn;t what I posted earlier, France uses bribery as a tool to clinch deals. Seeing how corrupt Congress is.....there is no telling. Remembe, General Kapoor demanded T 72 and T 90s with no night vision among other deficiencies.

Then we should either opt for Typhoon or Super Hornet

 

[Otocal]

Our armed forces are not free from corruption. There are cases and there are those that have been swept away. No other country has bought these planes. In case, you didn;t what I posted earlier, France uses bribery as a tool to clinch deals. Seeing how corrupt Congress is.....there is no telling. Remembe, General Kapoor demanded T 72 and T 90s with no night vision among other deficiencies.




That mentality needs to stop NOW. No more kickbacks......the modus operandi needs to clinched. Modi at the helm can make a bigger difference than Sonia.

If Modi was Prime Minister, Defence Minister and Senior most marshall/chief ( i don't know top rank ) of IAF at the SAME time then he could make a difference.

What makes you think IAF seniors and babus in MoD will not make a big fortune?
Sonia would have taken much more as Modi will not take a single paisa but the babus and brass

 

[AUz]

india will get rafales when they'll be outdated. LMAO.

Imagine having multiple strike-squadrons of rafales in 2009!!! indian airforce would have been feared across S.A/Middle-East...Now, india might get rafales in 2019..and honestly, who gives a fcuk?

By that time, Air Forces around the world..and in the region..would not feel the same effect of rafales in indian hand.

That's why india suck.

Look Saudi Arabia...and look at their airforce!

In couple of years, they have transformed their air force from unknown entity to the most technologically superior air power in Middle-East/South Asia region...

 

[axisofevil]

Then we should either opt for Typhoon or Super Hornet

Yup that's waht I was thinking. Both are excellent. Sticking to this nonsense about sanctions, wont happen in the future. Things have changed. We are part of the global chain and our defence industry will only get stronger..

 

[The_Sidewinder]

india will get rafales when they'll be outdated. LMAO.

Imagine having multiple strike-squadrons of rafales in 2009!!! indian airforce would have been feared across S.A/Middle-East...Now, india might get rafales in 2019..and honestly, who gives a fcuk?

By that time, Air Forces around the world..and in the region..would not feel the same effect of rafales in indian hand.

That's why india suck.

Look Saudi Arabia...and look at their airforce!

In couple of years, they have transformed their air force from unknown entity to the most technologically superior air power in Middle-East/South Asia region...

I couldn't agree more.

 

[axisofevil]

india will get rafales when they'll be outdated. LMAO.

Imagine having multiple strike-squadrons of rafales in 2009!!! indian airforce would have been feared across S.A/Middle-East...Now, india might get rafales in 2019..and honestly, who gives a fcuk?

By that time, Air Forces around the world..and in the region..would not feel the same effect of rafales in indian hand.

That's why india suck.

Look Saudi Arabia...and look at their airforce!

In couple of years, they have transformed their air force from unknown entity to the most technologically superior air power in Middle-East/South Asia region...

SO? Saudi Arabia is not a great comparsion, they have unlimited wealth from oil

 

[AUz]

SO? Saudi Arabia is not a great comparsion, they have unlimited wealth from oil

You have the money...its just your shitty state of affairs that is causing all this chaos and confusion.

Saudis paid a good price for their Eurofighters

 

[axisofevil]

If Modi was Prime Minister, Defence Minister and Senior most marshall/chief ( i don't know top rank ) of IAF at the SAME time then he could make a difference.

What makes you think IAF seniors and babus in MoD will not make a big fortune?
Sonia would have taken much more as Modi will not take a single paisa but the babus and brass

I agree wholeheartedly bro. That's why I say let Modi and the current govt make a better decision. After seeing so much ingrained corruption in the last gov't, everything they did has to be combed over with a brush. The mere fact that Modi plans on getting rid of archaic laws and repealing it, is great step forward.


I say go for either EFT or the new upgraded Super Horent. You'll find posters here who keep on harping about what the US did back then and such. But think about it, if the US plays that game again, they will loose out alot more in the future.

You have the money...its just your shitty state of affairs that is causing all this chaos and confusion.

Saudis paid a good price for their Eurofighters

No we don't have as much cash as the Saudi's.

 

[OrionHunter]

Some may say that my analysis is simple focusing on the numbers game but this is the point- unless you, the IAF, the GoI or India can stomach a 7-10 (at best) SQD shortfall in the MINIMUM sanctioned strength of the IAF by 2022 then the MMRCA is a MUST no two ways about it anymore- the situation is such that the IAF has got itself into such a position but that is another discussion.

Good analysis, but the excerpt from your post above mentions a probable 7-10 sqn shortfall, but remember, by 2022 we'd be having at least 2-3 sqns of the FGFA too, which would be a force multiplier.

It's just not about quantity but the quality too.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

india will get rafales when they'll be outdated. LMAO.

Imagine having multiple strike-squadrons of rafales in 2009!!! indian airforce would have been feared across S.A/Middle-East...Now, india might get rafales in 2019..and honestly, who gives a fcuk?

By that time, Air Forces around the world..and in the region..would not feel the same effect of rafales in indian hand.

That's why india suck.

Look Saudi Arabia...and look at their airforce!

In couple of years, they have transformed their air force from unknown entity to the most technologically superior air power in Middle-East/South Asia region...

Instead of looking at Saudi Arabia, why don't you look at your own airforce? Why the need to run to Saudis?

 

[GURU DUTT]

Instead of looking at Saudi Arabia, why don't you look at your own airforce? Why the need to run to Saudis?

well the thing is pakistanies themselfs know atht there airforce in nothing in comparrission to indian air force as of now + rafale is something which to them are "sour grapes" actualli its there frustation that even after hunting like hounds for the west almost all its life they are not even offerred the stuff which despite the best efforts of west india is reluctant to buy

so the thread might be right but try to understand there anger and frustation

 

[Abingdonboy]

Good analysis, but the excerpt from your post above mentions a probable 7-10 sqn shortfall, but remember, by 2022 we'd be having at least 2-3 sqns of the FGFA too, which would be a force multiplier.

1-2 SQDs )3 is too optimistic IMHO) and those 1-2 SQDs were factored in when i came up with the 7-10 SQD shortfall (I sat down and actually calculated it a few months back when I was a bit more laid back about the whole Rafale affair, the number shocked me into becoming an ardent believer in the need for the Rafale ASAP) and actually was confirmed by the former IAF men in that Stratpost round table discussion. 7-10 SQD shortfall if the Rafale is not ordered, 5-6 SQD if it is ordered in 12-14 months time 3-4 SQD shortfall if it is ordered by the end of 2014- which isn't actually too bad considering the IAF is operating at around 7-9 SQD shortfall right now. And these shortfalls are based on the MINIMUM sanctioned strength of the IAF remember, based on their own in-house analysis of how many SQDs they need to defend India's airspace from a two-front war, one needs to take these numbers VERY seriously and pay heed to them. If that is what the IAF says they need then for the love of God give it to them, no?

It's just not about quantity but the quality too.

Yes and no, as I've said the numbers we are talking about is what the IAF says it needs and who is anyone to question that? I agree that the 37-38 SQD IAF of 2022 is going to be dramatically more capable than the 33-34 SQD IAF of today and not by a factor of 10% (increase in that time 34--->37) but by 50-60%+ thanks to the fact that single-role fighters that were outdated 10 years back (MiG-27s and 21s) are going to be replaced by cutting edge multi-role machines of today (MKIs, LCAs and Rafales). But there is a saying that "quantity has a quality of all its own" and I agree with this too, in many cases numbers WILL be important not just the quality of the machines and that is especially true when the IAF is facing an ever growing (in both size and capability) PLAAF. The IAF can't afford to take the stance that "our weapons are fewer but better"- that was what the PAF had tried until the late 80s/early 90s when the quality superiority swung in the IAF's favour and it never did them much good (which ever way you look at it, in all India-Pak wars the IAF beat the PAF in the skies).

 

[Otocal]

india will get rafales when they'll be outdated. LMAO.

Imagine having multiple strike-squadrons of rafales in 2009!!! indian airforce would have been feared across S.A/Middle-East...Now, india might get rafales in 2019..and honestly, who gives a fcuk?

By that time, Air Forces around the world..and in the region..would not feel the same effect of rafales in indian hand.

That's why india suck.

Look Saudi Arabia...and look at their airforce!

In couple of years, they have transformed their air force from unknown entity to the most technologically superior air power in Middle-East/South Asia region...

The Middle East today poses no threat to us in a conventional warfare scenario.

The only Air Force we need to worry about is PAF.

I think in 2019 or even 2039 Rafale will be more than enough to deal with JF-17 block 8 or block 9 or whatever you call it at that time.

The J-31 is not going into production any time soon.

Only second hand F-16 and JF-17 being inducted in PAF.

The effect of Rafale in Indian hands will be quite a heartburn for South Asia ( 1 country only ). Nobody else is a priority.

 

[Juggernautjatt]

I think this might be 100th thread on Rafael deal on this forum.