‘Rafale allegations driven by politics’

[Maarkhoor]

No rules violated in jet deal: official
Rejecting allegations of the Congress on the purchase of Rafale fighter jets from France, a senior Embassy official on Wednesday said the accusations were driven by politics.

“This is a domestic political matter. This omni-role fighter jet has been selected for its outstanding performance and competitive price. It has been selected through a fully transparent and competitive process fully compliant with the rules and regulations of this country,” the official said.

The official said the 50% offset clause in the deal which was being executed by French companies “will help in the development of the defence industry in India in a big way.”

Congress sees scam

On Tuesday, Randeep Surjewala of the Congress alleged a “huge scam” in the Rafale deal and accused the Modi government of “promoting the interests of Prime Minister’s crony capitalist friends.”

Stating that some facts were being floated in the air, the official said, “Just check the facts.”

Maintenance covered

In September 2016, India and France signed a €7.87-billion deal for 36 Rafale jets in fly-away condition and scheduled to be delivered between 2019 and 2022. The deal includes aircraft, spares, weapons, maintenance and performance guarantee for five years.

France is expected to make a strong pitch for the sale of additional Rafale jets during the upcoming visit of Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian to India later this week.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...by-politics/article20461136.ece?homepage=true

 

[Joe Shearer]

Overpriced, negotiations bungled, but unlikely to be corrupt practices at work. I think we would have done better to get the Eurofighter for a supplement to the Su 30 MKI.

We should have been procuring the Gripen in quantity while creating parallel capacity for the Tejas.

Between the two governments defence production and procurement has been mucked up royally.

 

[BHarwana]

but I canot understand the congress deal was of 10 billion with TOT and some 126 or some thing jets where as BJP deal is of 8 billion with out TOT and 32 jets there is a huge difference in both figures it could not be with out corruption.

 

[a.kumar]

but I canot understand the congress deal was of 10 billion with TOT and some 126 or some thing jets where as BJP deal is of 8 billion with out TOT and 32 jets there is a huge difference in both figures it could not be with out corruption.

10 billion ?? it was way over 20 billion by the time it was selected ! This is why AK Anthony never signed the deal .

 

[Alphacharlie]

Congress --- A Corrugation of Monkey(s)

Anything more to say...

 

[Taygibay]

Nah guys, neither!

In truth, the 20B figure never existed; t'was media frenzy!

10.2 was the L1 quote & just a base price prior to negotiations.

The real problem was the HAL clause that wouldn't allow process control.

ToT as in all these deals would have ended up decried as screwdriver giri.

The problem was NOT solved by Congress / UPA and festered until Mano.

When even Parrikar couldn't find a way out, NaMo intervened to get a deal.

- End of story -​

Now, for that 8.7 B, you get two bases ( not an item in MMRCA ), integration
and customization which cost the same for 36 as for 126 ( so more per plane ),
and the guarantee that work will be done on time! Plus an Indian plant making
parts for it even if not a PSU, plus OEM build quality and in fact more ToT !!!

Safran is working on the Kaveri as an offset of about a billion for which they
hired engineers in France to come to India. Ask about the progress made on
that with DRDO just for kicks!

• Snecma which manufacture the Rafales M-88 core agreed to help and certify the engine in 18 months.
• DRDO has been given a virtual blank check to channelise offsets from the Indian Rafale deal to resurrect the Kaveri.Snecma, a partner in the Rafale programme, builds the Rafale’s twin M88 turbofan engines. Under the terms of the partnership , Snecma is working to modify, certify and integrate the Kaveri on a Light Combat Aircraft airframe before 2020.
• A later phase in the partnership will involve modifications on the Kaveri for a twin configuration on India’s AMCA fifth generation fighter concept and an altered non-reheat version for the Ghatak UCAV.
• According to DRDO chief the kaveri engine will be ready by next aero india 2019.
• Another good new is that altitude test and flying test bed trials have been completed. Official statement of MoD in Parliament” In a written reply to the Lok Sabha in December 2016, Minister of State for Defence Subhash Bhamre had called the effort of the GTRE in developing the engine as “an attempt to mastering one of the most complex technologies”. The minister said the altitude test and flying test bed trials for the engine had been completed and other developmental problems were being addressed to make the engine flight-worthy through in-house efforts as well with assistance from abroad”.
• The engine will be first used on Tejas PV-1.Other uses will be Ghatak UCAV(Dry variant or w/o afterburner).

And that's just from a guy on Quora : https://www.quora.com/What-is-current-status-of-Kaveri-engine

The difference is that the things you paid for are already happening
instead of HAL asking for more cash in order to be late and later.

Real costs more than imaginary; always does!

Good day gang, Tay.

 

[anant_s]

but I canot understand the congress deal was of 10 billion with TOT and some 126 or some thing jets where as BJP deal is of 8 billion with out TOT and 32 jets there is a huge difference in both figures it could not be with out corruption.

Sir, its not how it seems and media wants to make us believe
MMRCA Tender envisaged off the shelf supply of 18 (from OEM) and remaining 108 to be produced locally (read state run HAL). The costing was done based on life cycle costs (which means total cost to IAF for owing these machines for ~30 years).
Also note one point that this price estimate of USD 10 billion was for year 2007/8 (the year tender was formulated). Now as time went by and Rafale was declared winner it was already 2012 and subsequently Dassault didn't agree to take guarantee for HAL produced Rafale. This led to a logjam or stalemate which could only be broken if one side budged. Neither did but owing to IAF's urgent requirement India agreed to purchase 36 (+18 right to price reservation) at cost of USD 8 Billion along with India specific requirements including setting up of support facilities and weapon systems.
One thing that media doesn't tell is that had MMRCA signed in 2015 (when India agreed for off the shelf purchase), MMRCA would have costed us upwards of USD 20 billion (source) without considering Weapon packages and support facilities.
In international contracts, usually the prices have a component called inflation adjustment and therefore its is futile to compare it with estimated prices. Also while buyer has to budget for changes in Foreign Exchange Rates which generally lead to upward revision of prices in local currency, it is not reported by news media and then sometimes portrayed as scams etc.

Real costs more than imaginary; always does!

this sums up what i said above @BHarwana

 

[ashok321]

https://twitter.com/x/status/930770832774668288

Sir, its not how it seems and media wants to make us believe

Media, of all?
Whose media?
What percentage of Media favors or opposes Modi, do you even know?

Do you even know that the chunk of Media is sold out to Modi?
Barring NDTV & ABP, all are sold out Modi interests.

So its subtly reptilian from you to misguide people with such statements focusing on media, which is controlled by Modi, only to bolster your dialogue favoring this Rafale deal and leaving the PM intact without any suspicions.

Do you even know that the Modi's GOI does not give any government's advertisement to media which Modi considers "hostile"?

Err!

 

[BHarwana]

Sir, its not how it seems and media wants to make us believe
MMRCA Tender envisaged off the shelf supply of 18 (from OEM) and remaining 108 to be produced locally (read state run HAL). The costing was done based on life cycle costs (which means total cost to IAF for owing these machines for ~30 years).
Also note one point that this price estimate of USD 10 billion was for year 2007/8 (the year tender was formulated). Now as time went by and Rafale was declared winner it was already 2012 and subsequently Dassault didn't agree to take guarantee for HAL produced Rafale. This led to a logjam or stalemate which could only be broken if one side budged. Neither did but owing to IAF's urgent requirement India agreed to purchase 36 (+18 right to price reservation) at cost of USD 8 Billion along with India specific requirements including setting up of support facilities and weapon systems.
One thing that media doesn't tell is that had MMRCA signed in 2015 (when India agreed for off the shelf purchase), MMRCA would have costed us upwards of USD 20 billion (source) without considering Weapon packages and support facilities.
In international contracts, usually the prices have a component called inflation adjustment and therefore its is futile to compare it with estimated prices. Also while buyer has to budget for changes in Foreign Exchange Rates which generally lead to upward revision of prices in local currency, it is not reported by news media and then sometimes portrayed as scams etc.

Taking responsibility for HAL's produced units was a liablity for France so it was obvious for France to opt out of it. But in that case the deal that was provided by Congress it was better because India is still looking for make in India and what ever India gets will be less than Rafael and if it is F-16 Griphen or Typhoon still India will have to Pay and the bill will be too much bigger than what congress brought to table. If it was not corruption then it was a stupid decision.