R.I.P. Kirin chips: Huawei confirms Mate 40 will be the last phone with an in-house SoC

[Feng Leng]

The reality you can’t accept is that the US remains dominant across the semiconductor industry and has all the leverage. It’s one of the few industries where you can’t throw tens of billions of dollars at and expect to close the gap. You have to be able to innovate.

China is nowhere near catching or much less surpassing the American semiconductor industry. Talk is cheap. And that’s all the PDF Chinese are doing these days.

Since when was TSMC American?

 

[JustAnotherPerson]

The reality you can’t accept is that the US remains dominant across the semiconductor industry and has all the leverage. It’s one of the few industries where you can’t throw tens of billions of dollars at and expect to close the gap. You have to be able to innovate.

China is nowhere near catching or much less surpassing the American semiconductor industry. Talk is cheap. And that’s all the PDF Chinese are doing these days.

I dont care about who is dominant or who is not that only thing i care is cheaper better products, i only putting the facts in the table. This is a supply and demand problem, your problem is that you are seeing this with your ideological lenses that for some reason you never take off. This is about country trying to fix a supply problem cause by overzealous politicians, so whatever they gain is going to be your loss.
The fact is China has companies in every single stage in the semiconductor industry the only thing they need is costumers to grow.
The fact is that if you do your research and you start look under the waters the Chinese are doing significant advances in semiconductor equipment and closing the technical gap faster, according to people inside China they are in war mode, that an industry that once was a death end job now are seeing the faster grow in salaries than any other industry.
The fact is the Chinese semiconductors companies that use to exist in the margin of the China electronic industry are now seeing an significant increase in demand and opportunities
The fact is the China do a significant amount of R&D in semiconductors and they have a lot of knowledge in that area.
The fact IP is becoming less of issue this days, the irony with open ISAs like RISC-V the nobody can control is making easier to anyone to develop semiconductors without worrying about IP issues.
Take off your ideological lenses, the Neocons are fighting a war without knowing what they are getting into, they dont understand the industry and they are grossly underestimating the capabilities of their adversary.
The winning strategy for United State was keep doing what they were doing in the past. selling, period. nothing more and nothing less. As long as a supply problem doesn't exist would have taken longer for the Chinese to mature the semiconductor industry in China.

 

[Globenim]

Since when was TSMC American?

Since TSMC used "some" "American owned" IP, stolen and embezzled from European chipmakers, in its huge stack of international proprietary technologies.

Its just the usual last sprint selfdelusion weeks after TSMC already made clear that it will just decouple from the U.S. to protect its core business from meddling by U.S. regime.

 

[Feng Leng]

Its just the usual last sprint selfdelusion weeks after TSMC already made clear that it will just decouple from the U.S. to protect its business from being affected by U.S. regime meddling

Source?

 

[JustAnotherPerson]

Qualcomm Lobbies U.S. to Sell Chips for Huawei 5G Phones
Smartphone chip maker warns of potentially losing billions of dollars in sales because of export limit.

Just saying.
The only thing market share means is how much your are going to lose once alternatives appear.

 

[Globenim]

Source?

While there may be some impact from the new US regulations, TSMC's purpose to unleash innovation remain unchanged. Our leading position in the semiconductor industry, independent [Phonetic] technology leadership, manufacturing excellence and customers' trust also remain unchanged. We will continue to build upon our trinity of strengths and conduct our business with integrity to ensure our value and contribute to the semiconductor industry.

In the near term, we will work dynamically with our customer to minimize the impact to our business from new US regulations.

Straight from the CEO. Just add one and one. That Q&A also destroys the jerkoff about the new planned U.S. labs which they are esentially saying are completely uncompetitive and will be billed by U.S. government subsidies. A far cry from the political victory its been sold as by U.S. shills and bitter Indian trolls.
https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-...iconductor-manufacturing-company-limited.aspx

 

[letsrock]

Qualcomm Lobbies U.S. to Sell Chips for Huawei 5G Phones
Smartphone chip maker warns of potentially losing billions of dollars in sales because of export limit.

Just saying.
The only thing market share means is how much your are going to lose once alternatives appear.

So qualcomm wants to design chips for huawei. Is this all to kill hisilicon?

 

[JustAnotherPerson]

So qualcomm wants to design chips for huawei. Is this all to kill hisilicon?

They use to sell a lot telecommunication chips to Huawei in the past. But i think they are fearing more Mediatek because others Chinese smartphone manufacturers are abandoning the Qualcomm ship because of the sanctions and that is hurting more than the ban on Huawei.
But the worse that can happen to Qualcomm is if Hisilicon start selling their IP and patents to others companies and that give those companies the ability to made high end chips.
The irony is that apart from being competitors the relation between Qualcomm and Huawei was pretty good. HiSilicon was just a differentiator for Huawei rather than a competitor for Qualcomm.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

They admitted they sent copies overseas to servers in Singapore
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/352926
U.S. Government Considers Banning TikTok

So now they are screwed in the US market. Not many options for them as they can’t be trusted with data. So selling only option if they don’t want to get shutout.

You are missing the point.
Did Tik Tok or WeChat broke any law in USA?

Is this the 8500 executive order signed by businessman Trump?

Signing an executive order to ban Tik Tok based on hearsay posted in a biased article.
Did USA find Saddam Hussein WMD yet?

Great argument but USA Government has the right to do it but it is for the wrong reason.
National Security????

There is a warrant of arrest for Narendra Modi in USA, will he signed an exec order to enforce it today or after Modi has step down or ousted as Head of State.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

Source?

Soon it will be anything that uses 1% of USA related technologies including those by Chinese in USA will be disallowed.

That is why Trump wanted to destroy WHO by refusing to endorse new Judges.
It is all against WTO trade rules.

What if China apply the same since most USA products used Chinese made components?
It will be very chaotic and the world supply chain network has to be revamp.
The best solution is to avoid USA and that is what most MNC are quietly doing today.
Even Nokia Eriksson is using Huawei IPR while USA Verison is using them illegally.

 

[Naram_Sin]

Arent we reaching a point of increasing diminishing returns ? From the point of view of the average consumer, what can a 5nm processor do that a 14nm one wont, aside from improved battery life, will their commonly used apps stop working or drop to unacceptable performance levels ?

 

[S10]

Traditionally the American semiconductor industry are several steps ahead because they're able to get into a good development cycle. They can re-invest the profits selling to foreign companies into R&D, ensuring they release next generation products several years ahead of competition. Had the Americans kept that up, Chinese companies could never catch up let alone compete.

Instead, US decides to leave the world's largest semiconductor consumer market without a reliable supply link. That will force major Chinese firms to buy domestically, albeit products with inferior performance. In the long run, this is beneficial to Chinese semiconductor industry, as they will have a steady stream of revenues supporting R&D. While Americans might think they're inflicting pain on China, they are in essence burying themselves a decade down the road.

This isn't the Chinese nationalist in me talking. This is the conclusion reached by BCG:

"As a result, in a scenario in which escalating tensions lead to further restrictions on US semiconductor sales to Chinese customers, South Korea would likely overtake the US as world semiconductor leader in a few years; China could attain leadership in the long term."

https://www.bcg.com/en-ca/publicati...ld-end-united-states-semiconductor-leadership

Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake.

 

[TruthHurtz]

Arent we reaching a point of increasing diminishing returns ? From the point of view of the average consumer, what can a 5nm processor do that a 14nm one wont, aside from improved battery life, will their commonly used apps stop working or drop to unacceptable performance levels ?

3nm is expected to be the last node that makes economic sense. Beyond that alternative material solutions, 3D transistor stacking etc. will have to be implemented to maintain "Moore's law"-esque performance improvements well into the latter part of this decade and likely the next one too.

Intel has a projected timeline for 1.5nm in the later 2020s. But given their current performance (or lack of) this timeline seems highly unlikely.

 

[S10]

3nm is expected to be the last node that makes economic sense. Beyond that alternative material solutions, 3D transistor stacking etc. will have to be implemented to maintain "Moore's law"-esque performance improvements well into the latter part of this decade and likely the next one too.

Intel has a projected timeline for 1.5nm in the later 2020s. But given their current performance (or lack of) this timeline seems highly unlikely.

They said the same thing about 7nm, and yet here we are. Certainly there are diminishing returns, but I think we can squeeze a bit more out of silicon.

https://semiengineering.com/making-chips-at-3nm-and-beyond/

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

3nm is expected to be the last node that makes economic sense. Beyond that alternative material solutions, 3D transistor stacking etc. will have to be implemented to maintain "Moore's law"-esque performance improvements well into the latter part of this decade and likely the next one too.

Intel has a projected timeline for 1.5nm in the later 2020s. But given their current performance (or lack of) this timeline seems highly unlikely.

Intel is more likely to go fabless than to get even 5 nm at this point. Right now the problem is that new product tapeouts are more and more costly. In the past, product tapeouts were cheaper and cheaper relative to performance gains because there would just be so many more chips per wafer, while yields were still high.

For <28 nm nodes, costs are rising exponentially.

In exchange for these much higher costs you have maybe 15% faster speed, 30% lower power consumption.

https://semiengineering.com/5nm-vs-3nm/