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Questions about Butt/Khawaja clan and Kashmiri descendants in Pakistan

The identity comes from the country. Nobody outside will ever identify you as a Kashmiri, only as a Pakistani. The world recognises you because of your passport. Our ethnicity is our lineage, our history and our sub-culture, all protected by our family names and practices, but what it is not is our primary identity, not anymore at least. Our physical characteristics are just that, physical characteristics. They are the most fickle and inconsequential of anyone's being. The outsider can't tell a Korean from a Japanese, a Chinese from a Vietnamese, and for that matter, a Pakistani from an Indian. Our future, our present, our interests, our economic well being, our safety, security and freedom are all tied to and guaranteed by the state, our nationality, our true identity, not by our ethnicity.



All the more reason for us to provide the first drop. This rigidity against all reason has never been our people's trait, let's not start following the blind man now. Our people have always been progressive in thought and culture. Besides, every Kashmiri that marries outside breaks an equal part of the other ethnicity away. All ethnicities evolve, genetically and culturally. The Pakhtuns are a far cry of their Turko-Aryan decent, the Hazaras are a shadow of their Mongol roots, the Baltis are not Tibetans anymore, even the Kashmiris are not true to their aboriginal past anymore. The trend of the world is assimilation through pragmatism. What is useless is discarded, what is pragmatic is adopted. Education will change everything, it's only a matter of time. Happened to the west, will happen to us as well.

The only time when ethnic identities need be defended is when those ethnic identities are truly being systematically and overtly targeted against by the majority. Us Kashmiris in Pakistan and all the rest as well, thankfully, are not in this situation at all, despite what some illiterate loudmouths would wan't you to believe.



We all are, only very slowly. The newer generation, progressively, has lesser time for these archaic ideas.

@Zibago


Kashmiris is not a sub-culture. If Kashmir had been a part of Pakistan it would be a different matter altogether.

Most Kashmiris want an independent Kashmiri state, not to be part of India or Pakistan. So when Kashmir becomes independent rather than a part of Pakistan, how will we identify with Kashmir if we don't preserve our Kashmiri blood?
 
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Kashmiris is not a sub-culture. If Kashmir had been a part of Pakistan it would be a different matter altogether.

Most Kashmiris want an independent Kashmiri state, not to be part of India or Pakistan. So when Kashmir becomes independent rather than a part of Pakistan, how will we identify with Kashmir if we don't preserve our Kashmiri blood?
Thats true. But you will never get indipendance from India and Pakistan.

Could be the situation in the valley at play, just my guess. Marrying into Kashmiris was a strong preference (still not a must) until my parents days so all us cousins can claim to be 'pure' but now, although still the preference, it's not as strong. Which, I agree with you, is good.



Interesting. I always understood that Kashmiri Sheikh's were mostly converted pundits. For example, my grandad's grandad, Pandit Mansanath, when converted to Islam adopted the surname.


Guess who's grandma's sister was married to Manto.

Ofc you are not a ethnically brahmin anymore ("pure") but how do you view your brahmin lineage ?
 
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Thats true. But you will never get indipendance from India and Pakistan.



Ofc you are not a ethnically brahmin anymore ("pure") but how do you view your brahmin lineage ?
He views it just like a Bhatti or Jutt views his Hindu origin
I never thought too much about my own brahmin lineage its just something my gteat-grandfather was
 
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He views it just like a Bhatti or Jutt views his Hindu origin
I never thought too much about my own brahmin lineage its just something my gteat-grandfather was

Too bad we lost heavily in Your region. I am sorry that we were not there to help you when you needed us.

Anyway so whats your new identity ? I mean your clan /biradri

And whats your gotra ?
 
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Too bad we lost heavily in Your region. I am sorry that we were not there to help you when you needed us.

Anyway so whats your new identity ? I mean your clan /biradri

And whats your gotra ?
Lol my great grandfather converted during hindu raj in Kashmir at the hands of a disciple of Mian Muhammad Buksh and moved to rural Mirpur from rural sirinagar(really long story) and i have no idea what a gotra is oh and my biradri is Sheikh which is a title for kashmiri brahmin converts
 
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Lol my great grandfather converted during hindu raj in Kashmir at the hands of a disciple of Mian Muhammad Buksh and moved to rural Mirpuis.om rural sirinagar(really long story) and i have no idea what a gotra is oh and my biradri is Sheikh which is a title for kashmiri brahmin converts
Thats depressing...

How do you view brahmins ? Do you hate us or like us ? I am interested because you are still a Brahmin by Heritage.

I suggest you to find our what your gotra is.because its our Prime identity and pride

How do you view Hinduism and Vedas ? It was created by our ancestors.

And other great brahmins like Aryabhatta, Chanakya ?

And brahmin empires of South asia and ASEAN ? (Brahmins ruled Indonesia and other ASEAN nations as kings, even we built angkor vat) like Bajirao, sungas, kabul shahis who ruled whole Afghanistan for 500 years ? Do you cinsider them your own heroes? Do you feel proud of those ?

Sorry for long list of questions this is first time i am talking with a true muslim brahmin. please answe all separately if you can.
 
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Thats depressing...

How do you view brahmins ? Do you hate us or like us ? I am interested because you are still a Brahmin by Heritage.

I suggest you to find our what your gotra is.because its our Prime identity and pride

How do you view Hinduism and Vedas ? It was created by our ancestors.

And other great brahmins like Aryabhatta, Chanakya ?

And brahmin empires of South asia and ASEAN ? (Brahmins ruled Indonesia and other ASEAN nations as kings, even we built angkor vat) like Bajirao, sungas, kabul shahis who ruled whole Afghanistan for 500 years ? Do you cinsider them your own heroes? Do you feel proud of those ?

Sorry for long list of questions this is first time i am talking with a true muslim brahmin. please answe all separately if you can.
Which world you are living dear... ?
 
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Thats depressing...

How do you view brahmins ? Do you hate us or like us ? I am interested because you are still a Brahmin by Heritage.

I suggest you to find our what your gotra is.because its our Prime identity and pride

How do you view Hinduism and Vedas ? It was created by our ancestors.

And other great brahmins like Aryabhatta, Chanakya ?

And brahmin empires of South asia and ASEAN ? (Brahmins ruled Indonesia and other ASEAN nations as kings, even we built angkor vat) like Bajirao, sungas, kabul shahis who ruled whole Afghanistan for 500 years ? Do you cinsider them your own heroes? Do you feel proud of those ?

Sorry for long list of questions this is first time i am talking with a true muslim brahmin. please answe all separately if you can.
I just view it as my former identity i dont think i am that curious in finding what this gotra thing is maybe @krash knows his gotra
Oye @Pakistani Exile what is a gotra?
 
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The British also once said they will never leave India
Problem is, British india was size of an continent. While kashmir is small District sized territory. Heavily populated but still very small.

I am taking about valley. But maybe u can get indipendance if all 3 kashmiris.

Valley, Jammu and OK will work togather.
 
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Thats depressing...

How do you view brahmins ? Do you hate us or like us ? I am interested because you are still a Brahmin by Heritage.

I suggest you to find our what your gotra is.because its our Prime identity and pride

How do you view Hinduism and Vedas ? It was created by our ancestors.

And other great brahmins like Aryabhatta, Chanakya ?

And brahmin empires of South asia and ASEAN ? (Brahmins ruled Indonesia and other ASEAN nations as kings, even we built angkor vat) like Bajirao, sungas, kabul shahis who ruled whole Afghanistan for 500 years ? Do you cinsider them your own heroes? Do you feel proud of those ?

Sorry for long list of questions this is first time i am talking with a true muslim brahmin. please answe all separately if you can.
As if Brahmin is one communtiy, the truth is it is generic, and you are some gangadeshi brahmin (or shudra) perhaps, you and your gangadeshi brethren could never ever rule a rugged region like Afghanistan, it was the men of potohar and hazara area of pak which had the kabuli shahi kingdom, not the forefathers of gangadeshis, now stay banned dude.
 
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I just view it as my former identity i dont think i am that curious in finding what this gotra thing is maybe @krash knows his gotra
Oye @Pakistani Exile what is a gotra?

Gotra = a Sub-clan descended from a common paternal ancestor and then that is further broken down in to Krams.

I am sure the Indian members more knowledgeable than me can correct me if I am wrong.
 
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As if Brahmin is one communtiy, the truth is it is generic, and you are some gangadeshi brahmin (or shudra) perhaps, you and your gangadeshi brethren could never ever rule a rugged region like Afghanistan, it was the men of potohar and hazara area of pak which had the kabuli shahi kingdom, not the forefathers of gangadeshis, now stay banned dude.
We rleruled Afghanistan for 500 years.
 
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khawaja saad rafique & khawaja Asif r khawajas ,, sohail zia butt is a butt , nawaz sharif is a kashmiri lohar from shopian and sheikh rashid is a sheikh of kashmir
 
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khawaja saad rafique & khawaja Asif r khawajas ,, sohail zia butt is a butt , nawaz sharif is a kashmiri lohar from shopian and sheikh rashid is a sheikh of kashmir

Nawaz Sharif is Wani/Wa'en from Anantnag and Pulwama
 
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