Questions abound as Bangladesh science teacher arrested for ‘hurting religious feelings’

[Ssan]

Yes days were not always 24 hrs but the earlier you go the day length reduces (for example 1 million years ago it would be may be 23 hours)

So 1000 years , 50,000 years, 100 Million years long day is bull shit
Even if we assume 100 Million years day, number do-not add up, Universe is 13.8 Billion years old, Earth is 4.6 Billion years old

A 10 grade school boy of modern time Knows how to set context, how to address and audience in written / oral way, A super being and a super book if true cannot be so vague (1 day = 24 hrs, 1 day = 1000 years, 1 day = 50,000 years, I am sure tomorrow some molvi will come any say Allah's one day was 2.3 Billion years so 6 days = 13.8 billion yet proving universion creation true according to quran )


"2) I did not read such a thing in the Quran."
Read again


3) "This is in Hadith, not in the QuranWhen I interpret verses I do it only on the basis of the Quran. Quran calls itself complete and I respect that."

Quran is incomplete and is incomprehensible without hadith, tell me how to perform Namaz according to quran (on knees, or standing or on one leg, or lying down, which verses , what times not thing is mentioned, and the same is true for all aspects of Islam)

4) Your interpretation is wrong, how can you separate some thing which was not there (not in same time frame),
Universe was created 13.8 billion years ago, there was not earth for next 9 billion years,

5) I will prefer what geologists have to say instead of some random youtube videos

1) God says that a day in the sight of God is like a thousand years. As in it is a very long period of time. Thousand in Arabic can have two meanings. One is the number, the other is a really long period, not necessarily a thousand. There aren’t a thousand stories in the collection of “a thousand and one nights”. Just a lot of stories. This is because the Arabs did not have numbers for larger than a thousand. Anyways, God doesn’t say a day is a thousand years, he says it is like a thousand years of your reckoning.
2) wrong translation- right translation should be Yusuf Ali- he concurrently created the sky in two days. The Arabic word “Summa” can have both meanings 1) then and 2) moreover, concurrently. Here it has the second meaning otherwise the number of days goes to 8.
3) Hadith interpretation is not like Quran interpretation. Here, the general meaning is what is taken which is that the sun cannot rise everyday without Gods permission.
4) Big Bang theory
5) videos are accurate. You purposely mistranslated stabilized to balanced.

 

[bababho]

Again Manghandht Kahaniyan

1) God says that a day in the sight of God is like a thousand years.

Is god so helpless that his knowledge is limited by the vocabulary of. Arabs
Arabic might be nascent but ideal god is not,

And more a person is evened more precise he is, A super intelligent being cannot be so vague that a one place he say 1 day = 1000 years, another place he says 1 day = 50000 years then another day he says 1 day = very long period

Isse better number ki understanding rikshe wale ko hoti hai

3) Hadith interpretation is not like Quran interpretation. Here, the general meaning is what is taken which is that the sun cannot rise everyday without Gods permission.

Again Kahaniyan!!!
Sun rise is due to Gravity of Sun and Resolution of earth (Magnetism)
God Gravity hai ki Magnitism ??

4) Big Bang theory

Ghanta Big Bang theory
Zameen & Asmaan kabhi saath the hi nahi to alag kaise karoge,
Earth was created 9 billion years after big bang, How can you separate something which came into existance 9 billion years ago

 

[Ssan]

Again Manghandht Kahaniyan


Is god so helpless that his knowledge is limited by the vocabulary of. Arabs
Arabic might be nascent but ideal god is not,

And more a person is evened more precise he is, A super intelligent being cannot be so vague that a one place he say 1 day = 1000 years, another place he says 1 day = 50000 years then another day he says 1 day = very long period

Isse better number ki understanding rikshe wale ko hoti hai


Again Kahaniyan!!!
Sun rise is due to Gravity of Sun and Resolution of earth (Magnetism)
God Gravity hai ki Magnitism ??


Ghanta Big Bang theory
Zameen & Asmaan kabhi saath the hi nahi to alag kaise karoge,
Earth was created 9 billion years after big bang, How can you separate something which came into existance 9 billion years ago

1) Your understanding of language and science is limited my friend. God is very precise in His use of Arabic but you are unwilling or unable to appreciate that revelation comes to us in our own language with its own idioms and limitations. I already explained that in Arabic, there was no word larger than a thousand so it would be used for longer periods of time ( for more than thousands of years)- this is the opinion of scholars from antiquity. Your understanding or interpretation of it is of no value to what is being meant and understood.

3) The point is not to discuss the cause of the sun rise or the mechanism- it is to make the point that everybody and everything is under Gods control. From gravity to space to magnetism and all fundamental forces. If you get it, you get it. Otherwise, looks like your English is not too great. What does magnetism have to do with the sun rising. Maybe your science is poor too.

5) again your understanding of Arabic and even English language is poor. When the Quran says, heavens and earth, it is a reference to all of creation - the whole universe. Because heavens is all that is above the earth. The same thing in English frankly. When God says the heavens and the earth were joined- it is a reference to the Big Bang when the entire universe was crunched up together. Again, what I have listed about the heavens and earth is the interpretation of Quranic scholars from antiquity (literally quotes of ibn Taymiyya from 7-8 centuries ago). Not much of your opinion of what it means matters here.

 

[Ssan]

1) Your understanding of language and science is limited my friend. God is very precise in His use of Arabic but you are unwilling or unable to appreciate that revelation comes to us in our own language with its own idioms and limitations. I already explained that in Arabic, there was no word larger than a thousand so it would be used for longer periods of time ( for more than thousands of years)- this is the opinion of scholars from antiquity. Your understanding or interpretation of it is of no value to what is being meant and understood.

3) The point is not to discuss the cause of the sun rise or the mechanism- it is to make the point that everybody and everything is under Gods control. From gravity to space to magnetism and all fundamental forces. If you get it, you get it. Otherwise, looks like your English is not too great. What does magnetism have to do with the sun rising. Maybe your science is poor too.

5) again your understanding of Arabic and even English language is poor. When the Quran says, heavens and earth, it is a reference to all of creation - the whole universe. Because heavens is all that is above the earth. The same thing in English frankly. When God says the heavens and the earth were joined- it is a reference to the Big Bang when the entire universe was crunched up together. Again, what I have listed about the heavens and earth is the interpretation of Quranic scholars from antiquity (literally quotes of ibn Taymiyya from 7-8 centuries ago). Not much of your opinion of what it means matters here.

The real test of this is to open up say the Bible read literally the first page from genesis of the 6 day creation and then read the interpretation of scholars of the Torah and Old Testament from antiquity and see what they thought it means.

There is no such interpretation from antiquity that would make sense with the science we know today while everything in the Quran is perfectly compatible with mainstream opinions and interpretations from antiquity. Clv.

 

[nahtanbob]

We want out social practices to reflect our religion. That does not mean that we ignore science & technology. I would not be an engineer if I wanted to live in 6th century cocoon. You are mixing things here.


Good outcome. The children & their parents ought to be counseled.

Religion affirms what science can not prove/disprove. Islam does encourage scientific thinking, but also teaches that God's will supercedes everything. Miracles do happen. I have experienced / seen things that are not explainable via pure science.

religion and science do not mix

what is not possible today in terms of science and technology may be possible tomorrow

I am sure followers of Islam had to ponder about
Blood transfusions
Organ transplants
Invitro fertilization

In future you will ponder about
genetic engineering

 

[Ssan]

religion and science do not mix

what is not possible today in terms of science and technology may be possible tomorrow

I am sure followers of Islam had to ponder about
Blood transfusions
Organ transplants
Invitro fertilization

In future you will ponder about
genetic engineering

Rubbish logic- religion teaches us morality. Not science or technology- the only point we are making and we make it proudly and unabashedly is that Islam is the only religion whose holy book is completely compatible with known truths of science.

Otherwise the point of religion is to give us principles of morality to judge what is right or wrong, not only for issues in the past but for universally human problems.

 

[jamahir]

One should keep Hellenism in its place. The Greeks had many good ideas- none of them could account for an expanding universe, that the entire universe was Joined together before it was separated, that all living things come from water, or that stars form from cloudy gases that come together.

1. The universe is expanding within what entity ?

2. Did the Greeks say that stars are not formed from cloudy gases that come together ?

In fact, the Greeks, most schools, believed in 4 elements.

Which are those ?

4) Big Bang theory

Ghanta Big Bang theory
Zameen & Asmaan kabhi saath the hi nahi to alag kaise karoge,
Earth was created 9 billion years after big bang, How can you separate something which came into existance 9 billion years ago

I never believed in the Big Bang being the source of the creation of the universe and indeed some months ago I read an article about some astrophysicists agreeing that the universe has always existed and the Big Bang might have been one of the events in it. Who knows, the Big Bang might not even have existed.

In future you will ponder about
genetic engineering

Yes, genetic engineering and synthetic wombs.

 

[nahtanbob]

Rubbish logic- religion teaches us morality. Not science or technology- the only point we are making and we make it proudly and unabashedly is that Islam is the only religion whose holy book is completely compatible with known truths of science.

Otherwise the point of religion is to give us principles of morality to judge what is right or wrong, not only for issues in the past but for universally human problems.

science and technology is amoral

 

[Ssan]

science and technology is amoral

If so, then no issues. However, some technology can have moral/ethical implications which religion provides us guidance for.

 

[Ssan]

1. The universe is expanding within what entity ?

2. Did the Greeks say that stars are not formed from cloudy gases that come together ?



Which are those ?





I never believed in the Big Bang being the source of the creation of the universe and indeed some months ago I read an article about some astrophysicists agreeing that the universe has always existed and the Big Bang might have been one of the events in it. Who knows, the Big Bang might not even have existed.



Yes, genetic engineering and synthetic wombs.

1) The expansion of the universe is clearly written in the Quran and is an empirically established fact for our know universe which can be verified by the Doppler shift. As far as we know, we don’t know how space expands- there are multiple competing theories depending on what you believe about the curvature of space time and what sort of cosmic inflation theory you go for. Most likely space expanding into nothing (no space).
2) not that I know of. If you know otherwise source. Anyways, it doesn’t beat the quranic description of gravity forming stars from these gases.
3) most Greek schools - Aristotlean and otherwise believed in the 4 elements (fire, earth, water and air). There was a very small school that denied this. By and in-large Muslim theologians rejected these Greek schools to go for the atomic theory of matter that there are fundamental building blocks of matter - both the Asharis, mutazilites, and even the orthodox hanbalis believed in an atomic theory of nature.
4) almost no physicist worth any repute will tell you that the Big Bang did not happen. In fact, the Big Bang was predicted in the context of the cosmological argument and the concept of creation ex-nihilo is initially an argument of muslim theologians that proposed a Kalam cosmological argument or some modification of the cosmological argument. The Christians and Jews were late to the party here - maimonodes and Thomas Aquinas picked this framework up 500 years later. In that context, in the beginning of the 20th century, the theory that the universe had always been there, the static theory, was the most widely held one, with the idea that the universe had a beginning being looked down on. Eventually, the weight of evidence for a first cause event, creation of universe event like the Big Bang became so large that they all had to begrudgingly accept it.

 

[jamahir]

1) The expansion of the universe is clearly written in the Quran and is an empirically established fact for our know universe which can be verified by the Doppler shift. As far as we know, we don’t know how space expands- there are multiple competing theories depending on what you believe about the curvature of space time and what sort of cosmic inflation theory you go for. Most likely space expanding into nothing (no space).
2) not that I know of. If you know otherwise source. Anyways, it doesn’t beat the quranic description of gravity forming stars from these gases.
3) most Greek schools - Aristotlean and otherwise believed in the 4 elements (fire, earth, water and air). There was a very small school that denied this. By and in-large Muslim theologians rejected these Greek schools to go for the atomic theory of matter that there are fundamental building blocks of matter - both the Asharis, mutazilites, and even the orthodox hanbalis believed in an atomic theory of nature.
4) almost no physicist worth any repute will tell you that the Big Bang did not happen. In fact, the Big Bang was predicted in the context of the cosmological argument and the concept of creation ex-nihilo is initially an argument of muslim theologians that proposed a Kalam cosmological argument or some modification of the cosmological argument. The Christians and Jews were late to the party here - maimonodes and Thomas Aquinas picked this framework up 500 years later. In that context, in the beginning of the 20th century, the theory that the universe had always been there, the static theory, was the most widely held one, with the idea that the universe had a beginning being looked down on. Eventually, the weight of evidence for a first cause event, creation of universe event like the Big Bang became so large that they all had to begrudgingly accept it.

I think you should not be force fitting Quranic verses into modern astronomical theories which might not turn out true at all. This is just the very behavior that Hindutvadis do. Please go back to my mention of some astrophysicists now realizing that the universe has always existed - before any such thing called Big Bang. Tell me, what do Quranic verses say about Mars' landscape ?

I think I have posted on this thread the ancient Greek astronomical instrument the Antikythera Mechanism and that actually used ancient Egyptian solar calendar IIRC. Both these things were before Islam.

 

[Ssan]

I think you should not be force fitting Quranic verses into modern astronomical theories which might not turn out true at all. This is just the very behavior that Hindutvadis do. Please go back to my mention of some astrophysicists now realizing that the universe has always existed - before any such thing called Big Bang. Tell me, what do Quranic verses say about Mars' landscape ?

Frankly, I am stunned when people say this. There is no form fitting here. The Quran gave us the cosmological truths before science discovered them. If you ask a decent physicist, the fundamental cosmological truths are that stars and the galaxies formed under gravity from gases, the universe is expanding, that all matter was connected at some point (even if you want to believe in cycles of bangs and crunches) - that biological life as we know it if it exists in the universe requires water. The Quran is explicit in all these fronts- I am not making a claim to anything where I think there are alternative readings.

I think you are referring to Hoyle. Again, a hard minority and even he didn’t really believe it. The steady state model of the universe is dead I’m afraid. Read here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady-state_model

 

[bababho]

1) Your understanding of language and science is limited my friend. God is very precise in His use of Arabic but you are unwilling or unable to appreciate that revelation comes to us in our own language with its own idioms and limitations. I already explained that in Arabic, there was no word larger than a thousand so it would be used for longer periods of time ( for more than thousands of years)- this is the opinion of scholars from antiquity. Your understanding or interpretation of it is of no value to what is being meant and understood.

3) The point is not to discuss the cause of the sun rise or the mechanism- it is to make the point that everybody and everything is under Gods control. From gravity to space to magnetism and all fundamental forces. If you get it, you get it. Otherwise, looks like your English is not too great. What does magnetism have to do with the sun rising. Maybe your science is poor too.

5) again your understanding of Arabic and even English language is poor. When the Quran says, heavens and earth, it is a reference to all of creation - the whole universe. Because heavens is all that is above the earth. The same thing in English frankly. When God says the heavens and the earth were joined- it is a reference to the Big Bang when the entire universe was crunched up together. Again, what I have listed about the heavens and earth is the interpretation of Quranic scholars from antiquity (literally quotes of ibn Taymiyya from 7-8 centuries ago). Not much of your opinion of what it means matters here.

Blame everything on the limitation of Arabic,
A class 10th student can say earth is 4,545,000,000 years old , how can a super intelligent being be less accurate and vague than a class 10th student

Bottom line is the current day Islamists / Quaranists are doing mental gymnastics to connect invisible dots and trying to prove something which makes not sense

 

[Ssan]

Blame everything on the limitation of Arabic,
A class 10th student can say earth is 4,545,000,000 years old , how can a super intelligent being be less accurate and vague than a class 10th student

Bottom line is the current day Islamists / Quaranists are doing mental gymnastics to connect invisible dots and trying to prove something which makes not sense

You’re the only one doing mental gymnastics. Your understanding of language and theology is atrocious. Why does God need to specify the exact age of anything? He revealed the Quran in Arabic- is He going to use non-Arabic words just to make you happy?

Again let me repeat, thousand in Arabic can have both meanings, the numerical meaning or a large number meaning. This is understood in Arabic from antiquity. The thousand and one nights - the story from medieval era- does not mean 3 years or so of nights, it means a large number of nights and then one more on top of that. I guess if you get it, you get it. Otherwise like I said, your understanding of what it means is irrelevant.

 

[bababho]

You’re the only one doing mental gymnastics. Your understanding of language and theology is atrocious. He revealed the Quran in Arabic- is He going to use non-Arabic words just to make you happy?

So his ability to transfer information was limited by the evolution of Arabic
If he created the universe, if he is reason behind the current smart humans , if he is beyond time & distance then what stopped him to make Muhammand aware of the number system which was ahead of its time,

When he can send "wahi" without radio signals then why it was difficult making Muhammand understand concept of millions / billions or Lakh crore

How hard you will try to justify something which is far far away from reality