Question: Where are the armed forces?

[PakistaniEthics]

Care to share some links for those reports? And by the way, wearing an abaya doesn't turn a women into an animal. Women in Pakistan wear an Abaya by choice. The one's that don't want to, they simply don't. In fact, in major cities of Pakistan, abaya's are becoming extinct.

Dead wrong.
Women in Swat wear abayas by choice?
How many women do you know who wear abayas and how many of them do it voluntarily?

 

[PakistaniEthics]

...
All of you sitting in different part of the world keep on finding ways and words to justify this surrender. Shame on you if this is a deal.

Shame on us for allowing this to happen.
Shame on us for finding ways to justify it.

 

[Beskar]

Dead wrong.
Women in Swat wear abayas by choice?
How many women do you know who wear abayas and how many of them do it voluntarily?

Read the post again. I said 'MAJOR' cities.

I grew up in Pakistan. I know a lot of people who wear abaya's by choice and also the one's who don't wear it by choice. I have the right to generalize a little bit, speaking from my own experience. But don't generalize EVERY woman in Pakistan JUST because your relative told you a different story.

 

[batmannow]

well , for me its really , rightly ask question!
i guss, some our genrls are in USA, showing thier performences to the masters, others keeping quite, till the B@STRDS TALIBANS will take over, to our major cites!
its very shamefull to see our , armed forces hiding behind the political parties, & making "AWAM" fool , they should take control of the situation immediatly!

 

[RescueRanger]

Chalo, another thread that has become (India, India, India)... Look i am just fed up of this stupid PP government and the spinless whimps sitting in Islamabad. Question you should ask is... Why has the government allowed sharia (Nizam-E-Adel) and why has the Government not positioned FC/Army in SWAT?

Incase you are talking about Military and wondering, why! Well remember Kiyani in all his wisdom said: this is a democracy now and the army will not interfer in federal matters.

Ab Democracy ke mazey chakho! Ourpeople who cherished jomooriat so much are now tasting bitter reality... What we need is good old draft on a war footing...

 

[PakistaniEthics]

Read the post again. I said 'MAJOR' cities.

I grew up in Pakistan. I know a lot of people who wear abaya's by choice and also the one's who don't wear it by choice. I have the right to generalize a little bit, speaking from my own experience. But don't generalize EVERY woman in Pakistan JUST because your relative told you a different story.

Whats with your attitude?

Women in Pakistan wear an Abaya by choice. The one's that don't want to, they simply don't. In fact, in major cities of Pakistan, abaya's are becoming extinct.

 

[Beskar]

Whats with your attitude?

My attitude? You're flying an American and Canadian flag while trying to judge the entire women population of Pakistan. No problem of attitude on my side buddy. Enough derailing of the thread. Back to the topic, shall we?

 

[batmannow]

Chalo, another thread that has become (India, India, India)... Look i am just fed up of this stupid PP government and the spinless whimps sitting in Islamabad. Question you should ask is... Why has the government allowed sharia (Nizam-E-Adel) and why has the Government not positioned FC/Army in SWAT?

Incase you are talking about Military and wondering, why! Well remember Kiyani in all his wisdom said: this is a democracy now and the army will not interfer in federal matters.

Ab Democracy ke mazey chakho! Ourpeople who cherished jomooriat so much are now tasting bitter reality... What we need is good old draft on a war footing...

well, dont make him angel, he was the one who's name was asked by former SECTRY OF STATE of usa? & thats why he was bieng made COAS!
GEN. kiyani is fully responsible for this all installed NRO democracy, he was the 1 making dialoges with BB? he was the one of the true DEMOCRACY champions?
where is he ,whats he is doing, he & GEN PASHA enjoying US trips, thats it?

 

[RescueRanger]

well, dont make him angel, he was the one who's name was asked by former SECTRY OF STATE of usa? & thats why he was bieng made COAS!
GEN. kiyani is fully responsible for this all installed NRO democracy, he was the 1 making dialoges with BB? he was the one of the true DEMOCRACY champions?
where is he ,whats he is doing, he & GEN PASHA enjoying US trips, thats it?

Oh i quite aggree, that is one wily old man.

 

[PakistaniEthics]

My attitude? You're flying an American and Canadian flag while trying to judge the entire women population of Pakistan. No problem of attitude on my side buddy. Enough derailing of the thread. Back to the topic, shall we?

No one is judging Pakistani women, don't make assumptions.
You said "Women in Pakistan wear an Abaya by choice" where you should have said "Some women in Pakistan wear an abaya by choice while some are forced to". That's only if you want to sound rational.

Bottom line is, you and I both know that if it was up to Talibans, all of our women would be forced to wear an abaya and act according to their extreme customs that undermine women. Women are people too, they have the right to live, pursuit happiness, and to education. We shouldn't let this slide and take Taliban controlled territories back. Its really disgusting that people in Pakistan are taking this lightly. I guess they will wake up when one of their sisters or daughters are not allowed to go to school or flogged for taking a stroll.

 

[irfan1173]

AoA
The problem is not democracy or dictatorship. The problem is our elite(both civilian and military) still cannot figure out if Taliban's are friends or foe and many till today in establishment consider them strategic assets. If they were really interested in finishing this menace they would have done it during Musharraf rule.But they were busy signing peace deals coming up with lame excuses.(The video of General Safdar Hussain hugging Nek Mohammad still boils my blood)Even with troops deployed on eastern border, we have enough capability to take on the Taliban. The only missing thing is will to take them on.

 

[roadrunner]

1. Talibans took over Swat.
2. Nizam-i-adl passed a couple of weeks ago without much debate.
3. Tehreek's leadership openly welcoming and offering protection to OBL and friends.
4. Buner is robbed and taken over by Talibans.
5. Talibans openly declaring that they will one day march into Islamabad.

Can someone explain to me why are we not using our maximal armed forces again?

Or are we waiting for one of these laalas to blow up an international airport or something before we send in our top boys in fatigues?

Taliban taking over Swat is precisely the reason not to use blunt force.

It is that same force which is causing the Taliban ideology to spread.

Containment till the war in Afghanistan is over is the important thing.

 

[araz]

Chalo, another thread that has become (India, India, India)... Look i am just fed up of this stupid PP government and the spinless whimps sitting in Islamabad. Question you should ask is... Why has the government allowed sharia (Nizam-E-Adel) and why has the Government not positioned FC/Army in SWAT?

Incase you are talking about Military and wondering, why! Well remember Kiyani in all his wisdom said: this is a democracy now and the army will not interfer in federal matters.

Ab Democracy ke mazey chakho! Ourpeople who cherished jomooriat so much are now tasting bitter reality... What we need is good old draft on a war footing...

Brother
I share your worry about our country. However, it is the Government that needs to be blamed for their utter incompetance and knee jerk reactions.I think the Nizam e Adal has played a role in this fiasco. There are a lot of us to whom this WOT is a confusing issue. I dont want to start the debate here as it would derail the main topic. For Swat it had been touted as the peace maker.whether we like it or not, we had to do it to make the populace realize that the motives of these morons go much further than Swat. Now that Buner has fallen, it seems that red lights have started flashing every where. The talibans are not going to surrender without a drubbing.
i dont know from the strategic point of view, whether fighting them would be any easier in Buner than it was in Swat.I dont know how the terrain differs in both the areas. even as i am writing the post I worry for the innocent lives that may be lost caught up in between the Army and the taliban. But more and more it seems that we will have to take a decisive action against them. This time though there should be no deals and the matter must be finished at all costs.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[S-2]

"This time though there should be no deals and the matter must be finished at all costs."

Brave words but you'd best think what this entails. "...the matter must be finished at all costs..." commits to much. The cost in disrupted lives and income-individual and nat'l shall be high. We know this from Bajaur. Where they've had time, the militants have fortified and fought to retain their hold.

Bajaur has generated 500,000 refugees in Peshawar through the entire winter and now into the spring. This has been added by the influx of those who won't tolerate SWAT, and likely now Buner too. Think of those numbers.

Judging by Loe Sam, they'll be the survivors. There will be those who don't survive by the actions of the state-however correct or mistaken or whatever else. Can you fight that battle and at least hold your ground? You know...the information war that to date you've abysmally lost?

You'll need to find a way to regain the high ground despite likely collateral damage.

Here's the worst part- "...the matter must be finished..."

Explain please the stamina in your nat'l determination that's going to carry your brave words through Khyber, Kurram, N. & S. Waziristan, and eastern Baluchistan to include, obviously, Quetta?

Because that's what it'll take to finish and those lands will be Bajaur x 20. Brace yourself. You've no idea what awaits you in Waziristan. This war will be ages. Years easily. Decades probably.

Get ready.

 

[wtf]

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

The events in Swat fit a pattern of strategy that is slowly being unveiled. Only time will tell whether the Swat deal will give “peace in our time” as Chamberlain put it or will constitute what Churchill called the “end of the beginning”

The speech by Sufi Muhammad, leader of the Tehreek-e Nifaz-e Shariat-e Muhammadi, before a huge crowd in Mingora (Swat) last Saturday, represents a critical moment in the crisis of the Pakistani state. It clearly laid out the ideological framework within which the Taliban seek to achieve power and establish governance in Pakistan.

The Sufi specified the following six important postulates, which made clear the strategic objective of overthrowing the existing constitutional order of Pakistan:

1. He asserted that sharia (as interpreted by the Taliban) is seen as divine law.

2. He defined a Muslim not just in terms of someone who believes in the Oneness of God and the fact that Muhammad (PBUH) was the last prophet of God, but as one who supports and helps to implement the sharia.

3. He stipulated that the existing democratic order was an “un-Islamic system of the infidels” and that supporting such a system was a great sin.

4. The persistence of the “un-Islamic system of the infidels”, in his view, would destroy Pakistan and that he and his supporters would defend the country in the sense of attempting to establish their version of the sharia.

5. The superior courts of Pakistan were seen as part of the un-Islamic system of infidels and therefore rejected as institutions where legal appeals against qazi courts were to be made. Instead, he claimed that such appeals would be made before the soon to be formed institution of Darul Qaza.

6. The Nizam-e Adl (the system of justice established in Swat) as an application of the Taliban version of sharia under the “peace deal” was seen by the Sufi as only the first stage of the implementation process of sharia. According to him, sharia would be completed when it encompassed the institutional structures of Pakistan’s polity, economy and education.



These six postulates taken together constitute an ideological clarion call to all Muslims to join in the struggle of the Taliban to overthrow the existing democratic constitutional order in Pakistan for the establishment of their version of an Islamic state.

In this sense, Swat, like the other areas in the NWFP occupied and governed by various Taliban groups, is a base area from which the ideological, political and military struggle to establish a Taliban state in Pakistan is to be conducted.

Of course, the government regards the compromise in Swat as a “peace deal”, even though the TNSM has clearly stated that they will only provide peace if their version of sharia is implemented. The question is: Will they stop at Swat or pursue their broad strategic goals in the rest of Pakistan once Swat is secured?

Clearly there is a high quality military mind behind the Taliban strategy. In the first phase, large swathes of FATA were captured and a system of governance established by the Taliban at the level of a system of justice, the provision of livelihood for the poor, and a system of recruitment and military training. In the second stage, they enlarged their territorial control over some of the settled areas of the NWFP.

At the same time, guerrilla raids were conducted on key targets in the major cities of the country. The purpose was to undermine the confidence of the citizens in the ability of the state to fulfil the most basic function in terms of which it seeks legitimacy: protection of life of its citizens.

In the third stage, there is a shift from the valleys to the urban centres where strongholds have now been established. These strongholds of urban guerrillas are located in major cities such as Peshawar in the north, Lahore in the east, Multan and Karachi in the south and Quetta in the west. Pakistan is encircled by urban guerrilla forces poised to unleash mayhem of an intensity and scale unprecedented in Pakistan. If and when this happens, it could be a prelude to takeover.

The events in Swat fit a pattern of strategy that is slowly being unveiled. Only time will tell whether the Swat deal will give “peace in our time” as Chamberlain put it or will constitute what Churchill called the “end of the beginning”.

For many Pakistanis who are now leaving the country, this is the beginning of the end. It is time for the government, the military and the people of Pakistan to grasp the significance of the historic speech by Sufi Muhammad.