Qatar: Talks with Pakistan over Mirage 2000-5s

[airmarshal]

And none of them have made a large nation their enemy like Pak has

Wow! Twist of history or mere arrogance.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Mission duration is not exactly equal to flight duration. Even if a plane can fly for 9 hours continuously, What about the pilot? and more importantly weapons?

Most long duration missions that aircraft are expected to perform are based on range. For example, when the French first started bombing Libya, the first ADLA mission with 4 Rafales lasted 9 hours 45 minutes over a distance of 3400 miles. Aircraft took off from St Dizier, finished their mission and then landed in Chad. Subsequently, all missions took 9 hours from Chad to Libya and back. They would use transit time to conduct briefings en route. Recon missions would last 6 hours.

IAF too has been doing this since mid-2000s. IAF MKIs train regularly by flying towards simulated targets in the A&N Islands from the main land. These missions last about 14 hours. This is what gives you strategic reach.

The only way to do this is with air to air refueling, be it with tankers or buddy aircraft. Buddy refueling also gives the Rafale and MKI additional fuel stops in hostile airspace.

It's of great importance once you consider what the IN/IAF can do in the SCS from Car Nicobar, especially when working jointly with the Vietnamese or the Malaysians.

Manned jets can do missions that last 16 hours long before reaching the human limit. If the Super Sukhoi upgrade comes with unmanned capabilities, then some types of missions, particularly patrols, can go beyond 24 hours. Keeping the jets in the air is what will win you wars after all.

 

[MastanKhan]

sir i was just questioning how did you reach at the 60% probability to kill ratio of a modern bvr at its max range .the stage where it has almost no energy to spare and a single energy depletion maneuver by the jet will result in a miss.

Hi,

Well that comes down to kill ratio at max range to kill ratio at 80%---70%---60%---50% range.

Kill ratios of the worst BVR missiles is extremely high at 50%---60% of its total flight range---.

Supposedly a bvr missile with a max range of 100 km has a 80% kill ratio at 50% range when launched from that shorter distance---ie 50----31.5 miles---.

Now when a volley of 4 missiles is launched by an aircraft at one target---then what is the multiplier effect.

Can a target successfuly evade all these missiles within seconds of the other?

Hi,

That got real confusing---didn't it---. Suppose---the worst bvr missiles that has a max range of 100 km---and maybe a kill ratio of 5---maybe 10%----but the same missile when launched from a shorter distance ie---50k or 60 km away---their percentage of kill ratio goes much much ---higher.

So---now it may have a kill ratio of 80% when launched from 1/2 the distance of its max range---or even 70%---or even 60%. But when there is a volley of 4 missile is launched at a target---and the missiles are coming at an interval of a couple of 3 seconds apart---it gets to be miserable up there in the air.

Don't agree that SU 35 Would be nightmare for maintenance yes you need bit more guys for caring it

If it gives us a added capabilities in war which we lack what harm in it

At top if it was a nightmare
Than no country ever bought F 15 F 18 SU 30 SU 35 SU 27 MIG 29 MIG 35 Eurofighter Rafale Tornado etc

All those airforces are fool to have one of these nightmares for maintaining them yet they have single engine jets too

Get out of mental block otherwise air war has evolved over the years it is technology more than pilot skills today

Hi,

Thank you for correcting me---. Indeed---SU35 maybe maintenance intensive---but Paf techs have always done great job at managing and maintaining the fleet.

 

[Hell hound]

Hi,

That got real confusing---didn't it---. Suppose---the worst bvr missiles that has a max range of 100 km---and maybe a kill ratio of 5---maybe 10%----but the same missile when launched from a shorter distance ie---50k or 60 km away---their percentage of kill ratio goes much much ---higher.

So---now it may have a kill ratio of 80% when launched from 1/2 the distance of its max range---or even 70%---or even 60%. But when there is a volley of 4 missile is launched at a target---and the missiles are coming at an interval of a couple of 3 seconds apart---it gets to be miserable up there in the air.




Hi,

Thank you for correcting me---. Indeed---SU35 maybe maintenance intensive---but Paf techs have always done great job at managing and maintaining the fleet.

oh i get it now you were talking about launching bvr at it half range and i thought you were saying launch 4 missile at max range and get 60%PK ratio which is impossible.
obviously 4 bvr at half range will convert any fighter or awacs for that matter into a fireball unless it take cover in mountain terrain .

 

[MastanKhan]

Mission duration is not exactly equal to flight duration. Even if a plane can fly for 9 hours continuously, What about the pilot? and more importantly weapons?

Hi,

Well---when you have aircraft that have a long loiter time---you train the pilots---they get used to being in the driver's for a long long time---but this light time looks to be too long---.

If I was you---I would look into it further.

 

[IceCold]

Icey my friend and dear Random radio
It is not as simple as that. Why do countries buy US ?simply because their products with the best bang for the buck. They are dead reliable. Now you have a plane of which 4500 copies have been sold and it starts falling down against the Mig Bison/29s. How do you think people will perceive the 16s. Something which has inherent faults. Do you think US will risk that? I dont necessarily agree with the notion that the Arabs will buy US irrespective of whether these planes are good or not. If you look at the Arab market, Saudi Arabia has just bought Typhoons because of US reluctance to supply them with BVR AAMs although they have also bought 15s. UAE inspite of having patents on the AESA radar and having fairly capable bl. 60s armed to the hilt has dwindled between ordering more or ordering Rafale. Kuwait and Egypt has ordered Rafale. The Japanese have built their own plane and South Korea is diversifying and building their own. Turkey is moving away inspite of having the source codes for 16s. So traditional markets forcthe US are no more traditional and things are pretty labile.
Now look at Indo US nexus. The US has no love for India or for that matter Pakistan. They are init for money. They want to use India to contain China plys India has the biggest market in the so called democratic free world.The US wants to tap into it. However it will never allow India to get too far ahead and wants to keep Pakistan just happy enough to keep wanting more US products.
Of all the countries that have seen confrontation
A

I dont dispute any of the above sir but the above mentioned countries although diversifying their equipment still rely heavily on US hardware. For e.g F-35 is going to be the primary fighter for nearly all the countries except middle east despite the fact that most like Japan and Turkey have their own programs running.
I can quote another example i think it were the French (You can correct me with on this one) who provided codes to the Americans during the first gulf war for the SAMS used by Iraq. I cant recall the exact incident but i do remember that by providing those codes, Iraqi SAMS were rendered useless. Now my question is did it affect French reputation or stopped middle eastern countries from buying expensive military equipment from them? The answer is No. So why will it affect US reputation specially when most of the world is moving on from F-16s anyway.
For Pakistan i would say that even if there is a 1% chance of such sabotage, we will have to take it with utmost certainty considering F-16s are our main stray fighter. Remember Americans are on record saying that F-16s would only help Pakistan lose war but a bit slowly. Now if you remove the slowly part message is pretty loud and clear.
In war one does not take that chances like that because it can cost us dearly. Besides lets not forget the US reputation if not for kill switches, definitely for sanctions in war times.
Regards

 

[araz]

Why will the kill switches work only during combat? Kill switches will be used to prevent the aircraft from taking off. In case there is an aircraft in the air, the kill switch will activate after landing. There is no negative publicity in that. Don't forget that this is a country that destroyed an airliner in order to send a message to the Iranians.

And who knows, Pak leaders may already have been aware of it since the day of purchase. The Americans may have already explained its purpose and the conditions for its use. We know for a fact that the F-35 does now, and countries are lining up, even the Middle East has evinced a lot of interest.



That's the thing. The Middle East will buy American jets even without BVR. But they will never in their right mind buy a European or Russian jet without BVR.



UAE and Qatar are replacing their existing M-2000s. Egypt bought the Rafale because they wanted a jet that was competitive with the Israeli F-35. That's why they bought it in a hurry too. The Egyptians have probably purchased 3 squadrons of the Mig-29 as well.



The Koreans are diversifying in areas where the US does not compete in. And the Japanese are diversifying because the F-22 was rejected for export and they have the need to replace their F-15s.



India is not dependent on the US for core technologies. All of that's coming from Russia and pretty soon France.

In fact what India has bought from the US are technologies that are not available elsewhere. The Russians don't have a C-17, C-130, Chinook or P-8 equivalent yet. Similarly India is purchasing drones, carrier aewc and carrier tech from the US because even the Europeans don't have equivalents. The only exception was the Apache which won the tender fair and square, meaning it could have lost too.

Basically, if the Russians don't have it, the Europeans don't have it, India buys American. So the "get too far ahead" situation doesn't affect India. In fact, in about 6 months you will know how far India has really come when it comes to core technologies.

Hi.
The condition of use involves an airworthy aircraft. You have yourself mentioned that India uses Russian and French equipment. The US will definitely not interfere here even at the cost of its industrial destruction in India because of the loss in hundreds of Billions of $$$ because of the dent to the reputation of US hardware vis a vis Russian and french hardware. On the contrary they will be flying around every where touting how the 16s downed the rafales and MKIs. So I stand by my assessment that it does not serve US interests to activate kill switches in the Indo Pak scenario and they will not do so.#
With regards to the iddle East there is already a shift towards the french or EU form most of them. Whether it makes any difference will be debated for many a years but the move is significant and the fact that the Saudis are installing full level depot maintenance facilities for EFT speaks volumes. Sure they will be cajoled into buying US hardwares but the shift has already occured and it is plain for all to see. The Mid East countries will probably not be offered the F35 and will not be going for it instead moving towards so me other 5th generation platform. Turkey has announced its own fifth generation platform programme. So all in all we see a shift away from the US for a lot of its traditional markets due to its presumed unfair leaning towards Israel(I wont go into it here).
With the Koreans and the Japanese the US is arm twisting them in the extreme to keep them in line but this is a losing battle and Japan has indeed as has Korea announced its fifth generation programme.
The US has indeed explained the need for al the kill switches and PAF will not be stupid to go for 16s if they would be used against India in a defensive war which is what PAF will ever engage in.
India has bought what it needed and it has come with a lot less equipment due to US restrictions and fear of transfer of technology to the Russians so they are no different to us and the same will apply to us in case of war. It will be no hands barred low down and dirty.
I dont deny for a minute that India is far ahead of Pakistan in various technologies but this is never a point anyone has contended. The fact remains that Indian buying power, its needs and land mass demands a different level of equipment cover and so more power to India for taking care of its need. However please always remember that the more the difference between the two the sooner the MAD encounter will be enacted.
I am not a war monger but this is the stark reality of the environmentwe live in.
Regards
A

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Why will the kill switches work only during combat? Kill switches will be used to prevent the aircraft from taking off. In case there is an aircraft in the air, the kill switch will activate after landing. There is no negative publicity in that. Don't forget that this is a country that destroyed an airliner in order to send a message to the Iranians.

And who knows, Pak leaders may already have been aware of it since the day of purchase. The Americans may have already explained its purpose and the conditions for its use. We know for a fact that the F-35 does now, and countries are lining up, even the Middle East has evinced a lot of interest.



That's the thing. The Middle East will buy American jets even without BVR. But they will never in their right mind buy a European or Russian jet without BVR.



UAE and Qatar are replacing their existing M-2000s. Egypt bought the Rafale because they wanted a jet that was competitive with the Israeli F-35. That's why they bought it in a hurry too. The Egyptians have probably purchased 3 squadrons of the Mig-29 as well.



The Koreans are diversifying in areas where the US does not compete in. And the Japanese are diversifying because the F-22 was rejected for export and they have the need to replace their F-15s.



India is not dependent on the US for core technologies. All of that's coming from Russia and pretty soon France.

In fact what India has bought from the US are technologies that are not available elsewhere. The Russians don't have a C-17, C-130, Chinook or P-8 equivalent yet. Similarly India is purchasing drones, carrier aewc and carrier tech from the US because even the Europeans don't have equivalents. The only exception was the Apache which won the tender fair and square, meaning it could have lost too.

Basically, if the Russians don't have it, the Europeans don't have it, India buys American. So the "get too far ahead" situation doesn't affect India. In fact, in about 6 months you will know how far India has really come when it comes to core technologies.

Great posts mate-- Five in this thread alone ; Thanks

I waste my time with windjammer and Joe shearer and miss your beautiful posts

Not again

 

[araz]

I dont dispute any of the above sir but the above mentioned countries although diversifying their equipment still rely heavily on US hardware. For e.g F-35 is going to be the primary fighter for nearly all the countries except middle east despite the fact that most like Japan and Turkey have their own programs running.
I can quote another example i think it were the French (You can correct me with on this one) who provided codes to the Americans during the first gulf war for the SAMS used by Iraq. I cant recall the exact incident but i do remember that by providing those codes, Iraqi SAMS were rendered useless. Now my question is did it affect French reputation or stopped middle eastern countries from buying expensive military equipment from them? The answer is No. So why will it affect US reputation specially when most of the world is moving on from F-16s anyway.
For Pakistan i would say that even if there is a 1% chance of such sabotage, we will have to take it with utmost certainty considering F-16s are our main stray fighter. Remember Americans are on record saying that F-16s would only help Pakistan lose war but a bit slowly. Now if you remove the slowly part message is pretty loud and clear.
In war one does not take that chances like that because it can cost us dearly. Besides lets not forget the US reputation if not for kill switches, definitely for sanctions in war times.
Regards

The french have provided the US codes for the defence systems in Iraq and previously to the UK regarding the Exocet missiles to the Maggie Thatcher Government. The middle eastern Governments are literally being blackmailed into buying US products and are now moving away from them. So the change will come in time
A

 

[Blue Marlin]

The french have provided the US codes for the defence systems in Iraq and previously to the UK regarding the Exocet missiles to the Maggie Thatcher Government. The middle eastern Governments are literally being blackmailed into buying US products and are now moving away from them. So the change will come in time
A

we only got them due to the falklands war. middle eastern countries will very slowly move away from american products cases such as kuwait and qatar who are waiting years for approval for the sale of f15 and f18 they to have decided to go european saudi arabia is still a quiet reliant on the usa for weapoins and regularly chooses to buy from them. i dont even get their logic most times.

 

[araz]

Grow up Russia has evolved it's technology don't stuck up in 80s if we can care RD 93 which is even bigger nightmare it's old MIG 29 engine
SU 35 Saturn 117S (AL-41F1S) Engine not only cost effective and drinks even lower fuel than wester mirage 2000 which you are talking of getting

Problem is you don't look snigger picture
We live in very hostile environment surrounded by enemies and yet we talk about cost effective what cost effective

If you have fear of death do you consider buying a tablet which atleast have better chance to let you live or a tablet which have lesser chance

If we go to your type mentality than I say why buy F 16 Better buy old SABRE jets which PAF operated in 70s we don't need to train our technician and we have no maintenance havoc and we have better cost effectiveness running them than F 16


GROW UP look SU 35 capabilities best things comes with prices but can guarantees you it will save your back


Most of people here don't worry about what the purpose of buying but purpose saving money where your nations life is at stack the Memon thinking is hard to get rid of

INDONESIA Egypt Qatar oman

Buying more expansive jets but these type of cheap thinking they don't do considering hostility of our enemy

INDONESIA using SU 30 they don't have issues

We should see the purpose do this machine do the job

Naraz lost his mind like amir Khan memory loss

Your turn next. Idont indulge into engaging you as dont believe in wasting my time talking to people with fixed ideas. You have asked me to grow up. I grew up a long time ago and am steadily growing horizontally so thank you for reminding me. However I will leave it upto the public to compare your gibberish with mine to see who needs to grow up.
You have higlighted the advances in AL117S technology. Tell me how many countries have utilized the engine? The fact remains the engine needs to be tried out for a few years before you find its faults just like the SU series AL 31FN and its flame outs.So all I am saying at the moment is you dont have the evidence to support your tall claims. We need to wait to find out. By the way I have not supported the assumption that PSAF wants to buy older M2Ks so the assumption is mute and without any basis.
The other fact which you blatantly ignore is the fact that Russai is not going to supply you the SU35s without cash in hand and you dont have it. Seconfdly even if they do it just means thatr you have a second nation that canthrottle you in case of war by sanctioning you. OH they would love to rub youer nose in the dirt to take revenge for their defeat in Afghanistan. Oh By the way the person responsible for the supply of RD93 spares in a restaurant owner in Moscow so good luck with getting supplies in times of need. PAF is at themoment trying its best to get the Russians to establish facilities and infrastructure to ensure smooth supplies of RD93 toPAF and establishment of infrastructure in house to start overhauling facilities which is what all the visits have been about rather than the mighty SU35 which you all flagellate about. PAF may also be trying to be able to manufacture some parts necessary for in house maintenance of RD series. They are also cajoling the riussains to move ahead on the RD93MK version which they want. The difficulties encountered are plain for all to see.
You and people of your intellect dont see that we are being denied equipment due to our inability to pay back the money that we already owe. So at themoment till Pak economy improves significantly you aint getting jack!!! So wallow in your delusions of grandeur but the stark reality is we are beggers who are not in the enviable position to be able to choose our equipment. If this is the memon thinking all power to them for being sensible.
mark my words again!! YOU WILL NEVER GET PARITY WITHIAF IN NUMBERS OR QUALITY!!! The fact you are swimming rather than sinking is because they are incredibly inept at managing their defence acquisitions. So lets be fair and take facts for what they are. YOU ARE BROKE!!!!!
The rest of your post does not deserve an answer.
A

we only got them due to the falklands war. middle eastern countries will very slowly move away from american products cases such as kuwait and qatar who are waiting years for approval for the sale of f15 and f18 they to have decided to go european saudi arabia is still a quiet reliant on the usa for weapoins and regularly chooses to buy from them. i dont even get their logic most times.

But as I mentioned this is due to heavy arm twisting as well as the fact that they have to keep the weapons they have upto date which is why they bought more 15s and got the rest of their fleet upgraded. The US leanings towards Israel are palin for all to see and the writing is so blatantly clear that even the baklawa befuddled brain of the Arab leadership can see it( I know it is very unfaitr of me but please do allow some artistic licence).
A

 

[randomradio]

Turkey don't have hostile environment around it neither it's enemy bigger and top of it it has more than 100 F 16 and around 100 F 35 are ordered

Neither does Sweden. Have you forgotten that Turkey and Russia share maritime borders?

Turkish AF was built in order to counter the Soviets. Just like Sweden.

Dear one more thing Indonesia is not a rich country

Indonesia is richer than India. It has 1/3rd the economy with 1/5th the population.

and as for Egypt not all jets are subsidies they have 200 F 16 50 MIG 35 36 Rafale and mirages even if some are subsidied but they are maintaining it with poor economy

All current Egyptian purchases were subsidized.

Don't compare turkey turkey will have state of the art F 35 in few years and in numbers do u have

The F-35 is still a medium weight jet. So is the TFX.

Wow! Twist of history or mere arrogance.

So India is not a large nation? Who is arrogant now?

Mission duration is not exactly equal to flight duration. Even if a plane can fly for 9 hours continuously, What about the pilot? and more importantly weapons?

Mission duration is pretty much the same as flight duration. That's why the briefing is done in flight.

The pilots can handle 16 hour missions on Rafale, up to 14 hours on the MKI currently, more after upgrade.

Weapons are plenty enough.

 

[Blue Marlin]

But as I mentioned this is due to heavy arm twisting as well as the fact that they have to keep the weapons they have upto date which is why they bought more 15s and got the rest of their fleet upgraded. The US leanings towards Israel are palin for all to see and the writing is so blatantly clear that even the baklawa befuddled brain of the Arab leadership can see it( I know it is very unfaitr of me but please do allow some artistic licence).
A

have you not heard of qme? its basically law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualitative_Military_Edge.


the Arabs should get their heads out of their @$$e$ and wake up. They need an industrialised developing country. Stop funding proxy groups who are the worst of the worst and pull out of Yemen and think about themselves and not their religion (which is hard). they can easily remove foreign workers and replace them locals they have huge poverty rates. have you been out of Dubai to other local cities? they are horrible. Arab friends of mine told me that.


The saudis are funding the Ukrainians and they are building this an-132 which is part Arab and Ukrainian. Rubbish the plane is a modified an-32 which will be built in Saudi Arabia. The thing is you can buy as most stuff as you want but they comes a time where you think to yourself and say why don’t I built them for myself? The Koreans have just realised this the Japanese have been doing it for some time but have recently manned up and produced some high tech kit. Indonesia is with Korea. Heck best example is turkey. They have a massive industry. Once upon a time tai was on the brink now look at them. They need to start somewhere and build on it.


As for these mk2 for Pakistan……… pac wanted the mk2 to build on the rose program but india was quicker and purchased it. Killing of the idea. The f16’s are a troubled bird too a decent number of them are old and by mid 2025 they need to go as well. Paf is in the same shoes as iaf here they are not managed effectively enough to think 20+ years ahead . most likely the j31 will replace the f16 and will induct about 126 which was the desired number of f16 wanted still leaving the gap of the mirage lll/v open where the jf-17 will replace the j-7’s the jf-17s can replace the mirages as they are mainly strike platforms and the jf-17 does not have the range or payload for those missions. So a they may plan to induct more j-31(72) to replace the mirage lll’s but you need something for the mirage v’s that’s twin engine large and is able to host Pakistani and Chinese missiles.

 

[randomradio]

Hi.
The condition of use involves an airworthy aircraft. You have yourself mentioned that India uses Russian and French equipment. The US will definitely not interfere here even at the cost of its industrial destruction in India because of the loss in hundreds of Billions of $$$ because of the dent to the reputation of US hardware vis a vis Russian and french hardware. On the contrary they will be flying around every where touting how the 16s downed the rafales and MKIs. So I stand by my assessment that it does not serve US interests to activate kill switches in the Indo Pak scenario and they will not do so.#

Any decision they may make to help India won't be held to ransom by their MIC's business. If you are talking about money, MIC business with India is insignificant compared to civilian businesses. The Americans plan to invest $40-50B in India over the next year.

The French did not think twice about attacking Libya either, even though Libya was expected to be a good market for French products.

With regards to the iddle East there is already a shift towards the french or EU form most of them.

Once the F-35 becomes available to the Middle East, they will all line up as usual. Right now, they are still buying American. The Saudis bought F-15s, the UAE bought F-16s, the Kuwaitis will buy the SH and so on. Their diversification will not affect their US ties. Saudi and UAE in particular will buy whatever the Americans throw at them.

With the Koreans and the Japanese the US is arm twisting them in the extreme to keep them in line but this is a losing battle and Japan has indeed as has Korea announced its fifth generation programme.

Where is the competition to the US there? The Koreans are making a Rafale/Typhoon equivalent. The Japanese are making a F-22 equivalent. And they are buying the F-35 also.

Diversification is not uncommon. But none of these guys are building a competing product. Even Turkey, they are building jets that will complement the F-35. So they intend to buy Americans jets anyway.

India has bought what it needed and it has come with a lot less equipment due to US restrictions and fear of transfer of technology to the Russians so they are no different to us and the same will apply to us in case of war. It will be no hands barred low down and dirty.

There have been no restrictions from the Americans. Particularly now, since they have given us a major defence partner tag. In fact, the new conditions are India specific and includes conditions that are not available to other NATO partners.

The French had no such fears when they sold us the Jaguar and M-2000. India never gave up those technologies to the Soviets, forget today's Russia. So that fear is misplaced. India has always been responsible when it comes to technology and they all know it.

Great posts mate-- Five in this thread alone ; Thanks

I waste my time with windjammer and Joe shearer and miss your beautiful posts

Not again

Cheers.

 

[araz]

Any decision they may make to help India won't be held to ransom by their MIC's business. If you are talking about money, MIC business with India is insignificant compared to civilian businesses. The Americans plan to invest $40-50B in India over the next year.

The French did not think twice about attacking Libya either, even though Libya was expected to be a good market for French products.

This is because of interests other than businesses. The defence industry is huge interest in the US equilibrium and nothing will be done against the interest of the group. I somehow feel that we are skirting around the subject rather than getting into the meat of it. So to reiterate, US will safeguard its defence industry by ensuring that it does not act contrary to the industries interests.An F16 going down to an MKI or a Rafale due to a so called kill switch is too damaging to the US armaments industry image and will not be actioned

Once the F-35 becomes available to the Middle East, they will all line up as usual. Right now, they are still buying American. The Saudis bought F-15s, the UAE bought F-16s, the Kuwaitis will buy the SH and so on. Their diversification will not affect their US ties. Saudi and UAE in particular will buy whatever the Americans throw at them.
This is a mute point. It is at a point in future which neither you nor I know of. I dont think it is going to happen just like BVRs did not happen due to concerns regarding Israel's security. So the Middle Eastern countries will be looking st else where for their 5th generation fighter needs.


Where is the competition to the US there? The Koreans are making a Rafale/Typhoon equivalent. The Japanese are making a F-22 equivalent. And they are buying the F-35 also.
It is the fifthe generation programme that both countries have announced .If you cdont think this is competition what is/

Diversification is not uncommon. But none of these guys are building a competing product. Even Turkey, they are building jets that will complement the F-35. So they intend to buy Americans jets anyway.
Turkish estimates for F35 have gone down and will go down once they have an indegenous programme running. I think you canonly state what you have once their progress is more apparent around 2020.



There have been no restrictions from the Americans. Particularly now, since they have given us a major defence partner tag. In fact, the new conditions are India specific and includes conditions that are not available to other NATO partners.

There are restrictions in place and have severely curtailed the functioning of the US inventory in IAF. There is a news on the subject. I cant remember well but it pertains to communication equipment. So your statement is factually incorrect

The French had no such fears when they sold us the Jaguar and M-2000. India never gave up those technologies to the Soviets, forget today's Russia. So that fear is misplaced. India has always been responsible when it comes to technology and they all know it.
Cheers.

The french have not concluded their deal with you so what is coming or not coming to you cannot be stated till it has arrived. We can talk about it when the Raflae deal is concluded and I wish you the best of luck in this regards.
A
PS: I tried to multiquote a response for you . It is likely to fail so have used different colours for my answers to your post.