What's new

Purpose of S-400 and Rafale is to hit Pakistani aircraft inside Pakistani air space

oh, after loosing all wars against india, if you say so, lol
When we lost all war with India, in you can say only for 71 war but we were weak, internationally alone, ànd we had minimal PAF ànd PN assets in Bangladesh then,.you backup by then superpower Soviet union who vetod all ceasefire resolutions at UN, you're gave mukhti bahani terrorist with latest weapons ànd communication devices

Ànd last give me the answer WHY YOU INTERFERE OUR INTERNAL MATTERS IN 71
yeah, whole world can see that. and how can we forget your 93000 brave surrender.:D
Yeah yeah, I knew you guys always facesave behind the 71 war LOL
 
Yeah yeah, I knew you guys always facesave behind the 71 war LOL
71 war wasnt good for them. On the eastern front, it took them a week to fight and defeat an army of 34k and 15 fighter jets whilst loosing 1500 soldiers, 19 fighter jets and 30,000 terrorists.

In the west it was even worse. 2500-3000 soldiers dead, 59-60+ fighters shot down 125 tanks destroyed all for them to be stalemated by us... And thats with them having a massive advantage in technology
 
about 93000 surrender -
also there's a proper documents where 93000 were written.i fyou want to see that i can show you also with your army general's signature on it.
and India never attacked any country or tried to captured anyone's territory, this is the first thing.
second your army tired to capture tiger hill but failed miserably.

Full story-

The Marpo La ridge originates from the Pakistani side of the Line of Control and consists of a succession of mountain peaks that overlook the Mashkoh and Dras valleys in the Indian-administered Kashmir. It dominates the entire Dras sector. Point 5353 is a prominent peak on this ridge, overlooking the strategic National Highway 1 of India linking Srinagar to Leh. It is at an aeral distance of 12 km from Dras, which lies on the National Highway 1.

In 1999, Pakistani forces occupied the high peaks that the Indian army had vacated with the onset of the winter in the region and directed artillery fire at the highway, which led to Indian retaliation and the Kargil War.The Indian Army fought to regain control of peaks it had lost to the intruders on its side of the LoC. These included Tiger Hill and Tololing peaks and ridgelines, which posed a more direct threat to the highway. Point 5353 was not cleared during the war. Its status, along with that of the nearby peaks—Points 5165 and 5240—was settled during the negotiations after the end of hostilities.The two sides had then agreed to leave Point 5353 as well Points 5165 and 5240, the heights which surround it on either side on the Marpola ridge, unoccupied, based on the consensus that had been reached during the negotiations. However, the consensus did not survive the immediate post-Kargil period. The Indians reoccupied Point 5240, besides Point 5165, in August 1999, while the Pakistanis, in turn, took control of Point 5353;

For Pakistan, the strategic significance and their purpose for holding onto this feature lie in the fact that it provides them a view of the strategically important Marpo La pass, which India dominates. According to one assessment, without Point 5353, they had been finding it difficult to do so.Even before the Kargil war, the Pakistani military planners had been becoming increasingly concerned about their vulnerabilities in this region, having lost posts on the LoC at Marpo La to India before in the pre-Kargil period.To the south of the feature on the Pakistani side, however, lies a strongly glaciated tract, rendering the terrain inhospitable to the Pakistani army, which as a result has been pushed 5-6 km at the back, along the Shingo river, for building defences. This, as a result, has greatly degraded the tactical usefulness of this feature.

India, in turns, controls Point 5070, a strategically important peak along the Marpo La pass. It lies on the Pakistani side of the LoC, about 10 km west of Point 5353. The rest of the area in this region is glaciated, including what is called the Pariyon Ka Talab (literally meaning, "the pond of fairies").Whereas the Indian supplies are moved along a path hugging the Sando nullah, Pakistani supplies are moved through the Palawar-Bunyal road, which runs along the Shingo river. Their supplies are first off-loaded in nearby villages such as Gultari and Farnshat, then sent to frontline positions including Point 5353.

The Indian deployment on the 18,400 feet (5608 metres) mountain feature in the Kaksar sector along the LoC assumes significance in this context, for this feature overlooks the Shingo river valley in Pakistan. Sitting at this height, the Indian troops can subject the Palawar-Bunyal road to artillery fire at their convenience. Indian troops are also deployed on the adjacent Point 5240, which is another important feature that allows observation of the area.
kargil war Casualties and losses -

Indian official figures
  • 527 killed
  • 1,363 wounded
  • 1 POW
  • 1 fighter jet shot down
  • 1 helicopter shot down
Independent figures
  • 1000–4000 killed
Pakistani figures
  • 2,700–4,000 killed (according to Nawaz Sharif)
  • 3,000 killed (PML-N White Paper)
  • 8 POWs
Indian claims
  • 1,200 killed (at least 249 dead bodies recovered in Indian territory)
  • 1000+ wounded
i did not talked about 1965 and1947-48 yet.
give the figures from some neutral sources not from indian sources lol
 
Regarding the surrender


“The total fighting strength available to me [Gen Naizi] was forty-five thousand – 34,000 from the army, plus 11,000 from CAF and West Pakistan civilian police and armed non-combatants”who were fighting against the insurgents. Even if the strength of HL, MLA, depots, training institutes, workshops, factories, nurses and lady doctors, non-combatants like barbers, cooks, shoemakers and sweepers are added, even then the total comes to only 55,000.

Air Marshal Rahim khan, CNC Pakistan Air Force (1969-1972), had stated:

“The number of regular Pakistani troops in East Pakistan never exceeded 33,000-34,000. The rest is just propaganda by India and the Awami League, to magnify their success….”

Air Marshal Zulfiqar Ali Khan, who commended Eastern Wing of Pakistan Air Forces had asserted the same in these words:

“At the maximum, our regular fighting force in East Pakistan in December 1971 stood at 34,000. This figure does not include paramilitary personnel, military police, etc. Even if you include the auxiliaries, the total does not cross 45,000”.

General Akhtar Abdul Rehman. Former Vice Chief of Army Staff, speaking on the 1971 conundrum stated

“It was impossible for the 34,000 Pakistani troops in East Pakistan or for that matter any army in the world to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and 170,000 Mukti Bahini, If not more, that too in a hostile environment 1200 miles away from West Pakistan …… Keeping into account all this, if the Indians still feel that they achieved a stunning military victory against Pakistan, I can only say they have fallen prey to their own propaganda”.

US congressman, Charles Wilson (famous for Charlie Wilson’s War) in a discussion with Pakistani diplomats in Washington DC remarked.

“……In 1971, it was certainly not possible for the 35,000 Pakistani troops in Dhaka to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and the more than 100,000 Indian-trained Bengali guerillas.”

Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,

“Pakistanis are energetic, vibrant, and resilient. We must not be misled by 1971. It was certainly not possible for the 40,000 odd Pakistani army in Dhaka to fight against much larger Indian army and Indian-trained Bengali Bahinis in a hostile territory ….”

K C Pant, Indian former Defense Minister in September, 1994 during a discussion on Indo-Pak relations held in New Delhi, said

“Peace is important between Pakistan and India. We respect the professional competence of the Pakistani soldier. Had democracy continued in Pakistan, Islamabad would not have suffered the debacle resulting in the surrender of its 40,000 military personnel to India in East Pakistan”.

Sarmila Bose, the famous Indian Bengali writer and Associate Researcher at Oxford University in her book Dead Reckoning published in 2011, asserts

“…… t appears that while the total figure in Indian custody is about right, to state that 93,000 soldiers were taken prisoner is wrong, and creates confusions by greatly inflating the Pakistani fighting force in East Pakistan”.

Javed Jabbar, former Pakistani Minister of Information in his article, Estranged siblings-Pakistan and Bangladesh, 40 years later, wrote

“Pakistan’s armed forces did not exceed 45,000 troops at optimal levels. The 90,000 prisoners-of-war held by India included over 50,000 non- combatant, unarmed West Pakistani civilians.”

S. M. Hali, a well-known Pakistani analyst in his article, Breaking myths of 1971 Pak-India war writes,

“The total strength of Pakistan Army in East Pakistan (in 1971) was 40,000….”

Regarding kargil

PAKISTAN soldiers perched at peak 5353, on the strategic Marpo La Ridge had a grandstand view of this year's Vijay Diwas celebrations, marking the official end of the Kargil war. At least some of them must had wry smiles on their faces, for although peak 5353 metres is inside the Indian side of the Line of Control (LoC), Pakistani troops held the mountain through the Kargil war and continue to do so today.

Pakistani occupation of point 5353 means Operation Vijay's core objective in Drass, securing the highway, in effect failed. Officials in New Delhi attempt to argue that point 5353 is in an ambiguous location on the Line of Control, and that there are two peaks of the same height which are being confused, claims debunked by copies of the Army's own maps which are in Business Line's possession.

In mid-August, 1999, his efforts to bring about a deal bore fruit. Extended negotiations between the Brigadier and a Pakistani interlocutor, who called himself Colonel Saqlain, led to both sides committing themselves to leave points 5353, 5240, 4251 and 4875 unoccupied.

Both Indian and Pakistani troops were now pulled back to their pre-Kargil position, leaving an arial distance of about a kilometre between the armies along most of the Marpo La ridge. The deal wasn't ideal, for point 5353 was of enormously more strategic importance to India than either 4251 or 4875 were for Pakistan, but it was better than nothing.

Towards the end of October, things began to go horribly wrong. Commander Aul tasked the 16 Grenadiers to take point 5240 and the 1-3 Gurkha Rifles to occupy 5353, choosing to violate the August agreement rather than risk the prospect that Pakistan might reoccupy these positions again. While the 16 Grenadiers attack proceeded as planned, despite bad weather, the 1-3 Gurkha Rifles, for reasons which are still not clear, never made their way up 5353. When Pakistani troops detected the Indian presence on 52 40, they promptly launched a counter assault on 5353. Seven days later, in early November, the Grenadiers unit on 5240 watched Pakistan take up positions on the more important peak.

Pakistan moved rapidly to consolidate its position on 5353. Concrete bunkers came up on the peak, and a road was constructed to the base of the peak from Benazir Post, Pakistan's most important permanent position in the area. In the meanwhile, Commander Aul considered plans to retake the peak. He didn't have much choice. India's positions on 5240 were under threat, along with positions of the 2 Naga in Mushkoh, the 2 Grenadiers in Drass, and the 8 Sikh in Bhimbet. Offensives were discussed in January an d February this year, and again in May and August, but had to be abandoned each time because of the risks involved.


What does rk anand say about kargil?


Also lmao at using wikipedia as your source
and now this? an excuses from a bullshit source? lmao .
 
Does the B.S. in B.S. Dhonoa stand for BULL SH*T?
Quite honestly, there is no other explanation to it, her mother probably dropped him from very high above, and hence named him BS.
Anyways, I like the fact that they try to day dream.
 
Quite honestly, there is no other explanation to it, her mother probably dropped him from very high above, and hence named him BS.
Anyways, I like the fact that they try to day dream.




Sounds like all indian mothers drop their offspring on their heads from up high........... :lol:
 
Indian members are advised to not derail this thread. Thanks.

I question intelligence of every person who thinks a strategic asset like S400 will be deployed at Pak India border. Considering its a static assets Pakistan will pound the living $hit out of it with long range missile. I doubt Indian Planners are as big of morons as some Indians on this forum. Then again this is the same moron who was holed up with Army chief when Pak dropped bombs few kilometers next to them after marking their arse :rofl:.
Indian plan is to deploy 3 x S-400 battery close to Pakistan and each battery will be paired with additional defenses. Each S-400 battery is a complex and capable A2/AD system in itself with several radar systems and launchers in the mix, and the capability to engage multiple targets in short order. S-400 also have ELINT and ECCM capabilities. If the Indians are able to integrate it with paired defenses and the overarching C&C system then this arrangement will posit a significant challenge to our options. Rafale F3R are very capable platforms as well. Numbers can also make a difference.

Pakistan is developing its options as well but a hypothetical clash can still be costly in the future. Let us see.
 
and now this? an excuses from a bullshit source? lmao .
Have nothing to come back with so resorts to pure ignorance. You dont even see the fact how this link i gave had excerpts from multiple neutral observers and indian observers.

And for the kargil war... That was an indian source i used. Congratulations on being self aware
 
Rafale F3R are very capable platforms as well
It would be so nice if you made MMM-E understand that on some other threads. But then again,you've tried reasoning with him and didn't work.
 
Indian members are advised to not derail this thread. Thanks.


Indian plan is to deploy 3 x S-400 battery close to Pakistan and each battery will be paired with additional defenses. Each S-400 battery is a complex and capable A2/AD system in itself with several radar systems and launchers in the mix, and the capability to engage multiple targets in short order. S-400 also have ELINT and ECCM capabilities. If the Indians are able to integrate it with paired defenses and the overarching C&C system then this arrangement will posit a significant challenge to our options. Rafale F3R are very capable platforms as well. Numbers can also make a difference.

Pakistan is developing its options as well but a hypothetical clash can still be costly in the future. Let us see.
Even a single Akash regiment will field over a 1000 missiles. the S-400 will be layered in A2AD systems, tough to take on.
IAF will mostly prefer to fight over Pak airspace. Most investments point to the same.
https://www.aninews.in/news/nationa...ocurement20210830154548/#.YSzY4F7niWI.twitter
 
We all saw how "effective" the Armenian S300s were, i dont see the S400s fairing much better - as usual russian weapons are hyped far in excess of their capabilities as demonstrated by their combat records.

For every system - there is a counter - i am certain that at this point the Turks, Chinese and Pakistsn how understood how to neutralise the S400.

Dont get carried away with this new god of the S400, dont you remember what happened to the old god of the Raptor of the East - the Su30MKI ...
 
Indian members are advised to not derail this thread. Thanks.


Indian plan is to deploy 3 x S-400 battery close to Pakistan and each battery will be paired with additional defenses. Each S-400 battery is a complex and capable A2/AD system in itself with several radar systems and launchers in the mix, and the capability to engage multiple targets in short order. S-400 also have ELINT and ECCM capabilities. If the Indians are able to integrate it with paired defenses and the overarching C&C system then this arrangement will posit a significant challenge to our options. Rafale F3R are very capable platforms as well. Numbers can also make a difference.

Pakistan is developing its options as well but a hypothetical clash can still be costly in the future. Let us see.

Same can be achieved by S300 and minus Rafale. Indians as usual are hyping it as some otherworldly tech and changer. India has pretty good but they have always failed to utilize them to full potential. Indian use to call SU30 as BVR tanks but on 27th Feb it was useless as India failed to utilize their lead asset effectively. Another question is that after after ladakh episode can Indian afford to deploy most of its assets near pak India border. Only future will tell.
 
Same can be achieved by S300 and minus Rafale. Indians as usual are hyping it as some otherworldly tech and changer. India has pretty good but they have always failed to utilize them to full potential. Indian use to call SU30 as BVR tanks but on 27th Feb it was useless as India failed to utilize their lead asset effectively. Another question is that after after ladakh episode can Indian afford to deploy most of its assets near pak India border. Only future will tell.
Can I ask? Why do Indians call the Su-30 the "Raptor of the East"? They mean it's as good as the F-22 Raptor or just as a cool name?
First time I heard about this was here,in this forum.
 

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom