Purpose of S-400 and Rafale is to hit Pakistani aircraft inside Pakistani air space

[Suriya]

Only technology can save IAF.

Only peace can save Pakistan.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

how do you know?

For this public forum the answer is SEAD is a basic staple for any modern Air Force. By the late 90s India’s air defense systems (missile) had become formidable, with the PAF working overtime to adjust to this reality. SEAD was always something the PAF worked on but in the 2000s it took on a new level of urgency.

 

[Tornado23]

Only peace can save Pakistan.

And nothing can save our enemies

 

[IblinI]

This is for Mr bs.

《解放军报》9月14日报道，“截获目标！”“发射！”烈日当空，一场空中对抗激战正酣。东部战区空军航空兵某旅“王海大队”年轻飞行员陈鑫浩，面对来自不同方向多批“敌机”的拦截，与战友灵活协同、勇敢出击，在兵力明显处于劣势的情况下，以“零损伤”的代价一举“击落敌机”17架。

“你很难想到，陈鑫浩驾驭这款新型改装战机飞行时间刚过100小时。

Two pilots with only a hundred flying hours in their J20 has shot down 17 enemies 4/4.5 gen fighters during an exercise.

https://m.guancha.cn/military-affairs/2020_09_14_565054.shtml?s=zwyxgtjbt

 

[LeGenD]

By the looks of things, rafales were humiliated by the JF-17 blk2s in the Anatolian Eagle exercises in both WVR and BVR engagements...against the blk3, rafales will get straight up slaughtered.

Mate, results of Anatolian Eagle are officially undisclosed/confidential.

JF-17 Block 2 is an achievement for Pakistan but it is not in the same class as Rafale F3R.

Rafale F3R features modern avionics (RBE2-AA AESA; SPECTRA with DFRM; FSO; Data Fusion), modern munitions (Mica; I-Derby ER; METEOR), secured communications (Link-16), and will posit a significant threat to opposing aircraft in both WVR and BVR engagement regimes.

Su-30 MKI is easy to spot from a distance (big RCS). Before Operation Swift Retort in 2019, these jet fighters were equipped with outdated communication technologies (vulnerable to jamming), and outdated munitions (R-77); typical of older Russian technologies not matching their advertised performance levels.

Indians are improving Su-30 MKI nevertheless:

Rafael sells BNET-AR to Asian air force | Shephard

Israeli company finds Asian customer for airborne software-defined radios.

www.shephardmedia.com

Indian Air Force tests MICA air-to-air missile using Sukhoi jets

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has carried out successful testing of anti-air multi-target MICA missile, which will be integrated with the Rafale fighter jets.

www.airforce-technology.com

Operation Swift Retort was a masterstroke of PAF in which shortcomings of IAF were laid bare for all to see. I recall some conversations with Indians in which I cautioned them to not underestimate MLU and Block 52+ F-16s and PAF in general but Indians were in HUBRIS at the time. They were living in the past.

Now they are building capabilities. Let us see.

 

[baqai]

wow they figured out that purpose of a fighter aircraft and air defense system is to shoot the aircraft of your enemy... previously they obviously didn't knew that and were busy shooting down their own helicopters, chalu dair aaye durust aaye

 

[Mav3rick]

Whats with bloody trolling attitude by Pakistani member's?? Both the S 400 and Rafale are a huge leap in capability and technology. Rafale with scalp cruise missile and meteor provides massive tactical advantage. The question is how will we counter it?

It appears, lately, that most of the active members here are under 25 and hence the childish rhetoric, misplaced bravado and overall nonsense. It is a sad affair that some senior members too have not matured.

Nevertheless, for Rafale, we need to get our hands on a fully stealth, integrated and mature FC-31 platform with RAMJET missiles capable of MACH 5+ and ranges in excess of 250KM's and KZ in the high 150KM's.

For S-400 systems, we need to learn how to defeat the system by overwhelming it with cheap drones.

 

[Tornado23]

It appears, lately, that most of the active members here are under 25 and hence the childish rhetoric, misplaced bravado and overall nonsense. It is a sad affair that some senior members too have not matured.

Nevertheless, for Rafale, we need to get our hands on a fully stealth, integrated and mature FC-31 platform with RAMJET missiles capable of MACH 5+ and ranges in excess of 250KM's and KZ in the high 150KM's.

For S-400 systems, we need to learn how to defeat the system by overwhelming it with cheap drones.

You telling me you want to counter the rafale by buying a stealth jet thats not even for export yet... Even though we have the blk3 coming

 

[Foinikas]

Mate, results of Anatolian Eagle are officially undisclosed/confidential.

Can I say something here,since you've mentioned Anatolian Eagle?
This came from the first HAF pilot to fly on a Rafale (on a two-seater B model logically),in NATO Tigers 2015 in Konya,Turkey.He said 4 French Rafales went against 8 THK F-16s and won 8:0 in BVR scenarios. That's what he said in an interview(since he was the first greek pilot to fly on a Rafale,the media started inviting him on TV and all).

If you ask me,my humble opinion is that the Rafale is a masterpiece. A work of art. And I feel as if it's being defiled by being given to the Indians. And it makes you wonder,even if the IAF had F-16s or F-35s would they be able to use them correctly? They've had the Su-30s,they've had the Mig-29s and Mirage 2000s. What did they do with them? They only used the Mirage 2000s in bombing roles if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Mumm-Ra]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1289949009688137729

https://twitter.com/x/status/1289948926045552640

https://twitter.com/x/status/1289948841999908864

https://twitter.com/x/status/1289948758042537985

The Rafale aircraft will give India a strategic advantage in case of any aerial combat with China in the mountainous Tibet region as the fleet will be able to use the terrain to its advantage, destroy enemy air defence and incapacitate the surface-to-air missiles, former Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal (retd) B S Dhanoa said on Sunday.

Dhanoa, known as the architect of the Balakot strikes, said the Rafale jets along with S-400 missile systems will give the Indian Air Force a major combat edge in the entire region and that India’s adversaries will think twice before starting a war with it.

In case of Pakistan, he said the purpose of the S-400 and Rafale is to hit Pakistani aircraft inside Pakistani air space and not when they come inside Indian territory, adding the neighbouring country would not have responded on February 27 last year to the Balakot air strikes if India had the French-manufactured jets then.

In an interview to PTI, Dhanoa said the Rafale, with its fantastic electronic warfare suite and maneuverability, will be able use mountainous terrain in Tibet to its advantage and blind the enemy before India’s strike aircraft penetrate hostile airspace to carry out their missions.

The former Chief of Air Staff also said that the Rafales being supplied to the IAF are much more advanced than the ones being used by the French Air Force as India had asked for something “more” due to requirement to operate in unique conditions like operations from Leh.

Five Rafale jets out of 36 arrived India last week at a time India is in the midst of a bitter border row with China in the high altitude eastern Ladakh region.

“Rafale has got a fantastic Electronic Warfare (EW) suite (SPECTRA), fantastic weapons and therefore are capable of protecting themselves electronically besides being able to use the terrain to their advantage,” Dhanoa said.

“So they (Rafales) can play an important role in doing DEAD (Destruction of Enemy Air Defence) on the Surface-to-Air Missiles that the Chinese have put on Tibet.

“Once you take out those surface to air missiles, then other aircraft like Su30, Jaguars, even Mig 21s can go out and drop the bombs on the Chinese forces. The strike aircraft carrying bombs can put tonnes and tonnes of bombs on the enemy troops, freely carrying out their mission. But if you do not do DEAD then you will suffer a lot of casualties,” he said.

The leading air forces globally carry out Suppression of Enemy Air Defence (SEAD) or DEAD using their top of the line aircraft or weapons before launching any major operation in hostile territories.

As the Chief of Air Staff, Dhanoa had strongly defended the Rafale deal when the opposition parties ramped up attack on the government alleging massive irregularities in the procurement. The top IAF brass led by Dhanoa played a key role in implementation of the mega deal.

“Against China there are big Himalayan mountains in between us which create serious line of sight issues. You can put a missile with a range of 300-400 kms on the ground in Tibet or in India. But it will only work within the line of sight,” he said.

He said the Rafales, with terrain following capability, will give India a major capability enhancement.

“In air combat, the first thing that is important is information dominance, you get information and deny the enemy the information. The key role the Rafales will play in Tibet is information dominance and in case of Pakistan, it is a major deterrent. Of course there will be other roles too,” he said.

Asked about the comparison between the Rafales and J-20 fighter jets of China, he said the Chinese aircraft is not stealthy and presently, with its current engines, cannot supercruise unlike the newly-acquired Indian fleet.

In a beyond visual range (BVR) combat, he said Indian missiles are far superior than theirs. The French avionics on board the Rafale are “far superior” than the Chinese systems in J-20s, he said.

“Hence in a BVR environment the Rafales are superior to the J-20s,” he added.

“With the induction of the Rafales we will have a tremendous jump in capability. That’s why I called both (Rafale and S 400) of them game changers. Both these platforms will give the IAF a tremendous capability jump. The Rafale in the air and S-400 on the ground.

In October 2018, India signed a USD 5 billion deal to buy the S-400 air defence missile systems from Russia to bolster the IAF’s air defence mechanism.

The ‘Triumf’ interceptor-based missile system can destroy incoming hostile aircraft, missiles and even drones at ranges of up to 400 km. The delivery of the missile systems is scheduled to begin next year.

“Both S-400 and Rafales are critical game changers. Rafale is a deterrent. The purpose of deterrence is not to fight a war. Purpose of deterrence is to make the other person think twice before he starts a war or a skirmish with you,” he said.

He said the Pakistanis would not have responded on February 27 last year to India’s Balakot strikes if India had the Rafale jets.

In this context, he also mentioned an operation by the IAF to drop bombs on a Pakistani post along the LoC in Kel sector in 2002, and how Pakistani Air Force never dared to respond to it.

“On August 2, 2002, we did bombing of a Pakistani post as the Pakistanis had intruded about 600-700 metres inside the LoC in our area and set up a post. We bombed with four Mirage 2000s and after that the Pakistanis never came back,” Dhanoa said.

“The Pakistanis never ever dreamt of bombing an Indian post in retaliation because we had Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles on Mirage 2000, MiG 29 and the Su-30 Ks and they did not have any BVR missiles on any of their fighters,” he recalled.

“They just kept quiet about it and just didn’t acknowledge that something had happened and later on played it low key when the news did break in the international media! That is what is called deterrence,” he added.

Asked whether India should consider procuring two more squadrons of Rafales as it makes operational sense, Dhanoa called it a good idea and said that it will be the “cheapest option” of getting a 4.5 generation fighter into the air force.

“We already have infrastructure for two squadrons. We do not need additional infrastructure for the next two squadrons. They will come, in my assessment, at 60 to 70 per cent of the cost of the current ones,” he said.

“The cost of research and development for all India-specific enhancements have already been covered. The next two squadrons of Rafales will be the cheapest option of getting a 4.5 generation fighter into the air force,” he added.

Dhanoa, who retired as the IAF Chief on September 30 last year, said having two more squadrons of Rafales will give the force a lot of strength.

“If you have 72-80 aircraft, it will match whatever F-16s the Pakistanis have got. It will be good for deterrence,” he said adding it will make economic sense.

Dhanoa also thanked all the people who stood by the Rafale deal, including the defence minister, the civil servants, the then defence secretary, the director general (acquisition) and many others in the government.

“You have to give them full marks, because they stood by it despite many apprehensions. Normally everybody gets scared that this deal may be termed later as a scam and they may be hauled up by the investigation agencies after their retirement, or some other roving inquiry that may happen which may implicate them in the future. These people stood by it; we signed and executed the deal,” he said.

Dhanoa said the political leadership also stood their ground and did not dump the deal.

“They were going into an election. You could have always opted for a soft option of setting up a committee. Everybody stood their ground. The national leadership, the bureaucracy. That is why you have the aircraft,” he added.

Dhanoa also expressed happiness that the first squadron of Rafales will be part of the Number 17 Squadron, also known as ‘Golden Arrows’, based in Ambala.

“I am very happy...I was the last Commodore Commandant of 17 squadron. It got number plated in March 2012. It stopped flying in December 2011. Having celebrated our Diamond Jubilee in October 2011. Last year the Squadron has been resurrected and this year aircraft have finally come to the Squadron,” he said.

“Golden Arrows have a very rich tradition. The Squadron has fought in all the wars. It participated in the Liberation of Goa, 1965 war, 1971 war, and it fought in Kargil,” he added.

Dhanoa commanded the squadron during the Kargil war.

“In case, there is fighting in Eastern Ladakh, we will not miss it,” the Air Chief Marshal (Retd.) said in a lighter vein.

This guys should be academically castrated for his failure on 26th and 27th Feb but here he is boasting like a drunk Uncle at a bachelor party. Next thing, he'll say is that Rafale has Tony Stark's iron man technology and can travel into the multiverse. proper phycho

 

[Mav3rick]

You telling me you want to counter the rafale by buying a stealth jet thats not even for export yet... Even though we have the blk3 coming

That's exactly what I am saying, to counter Rafale, and possibly the S-400 (SEAD), we need something that can get in, take out the enemy and return; all without being detected (ideally) or detected so late that response becomes ineffective.

 

[Tornado23]

That's exactly what I am saying, to counter Rafale, and possibly the S-400 (SEAD), we need something that can get in, take out the enemy and return; all without being detected (ideally) or detected so late that response becomes ineffective.

RAAD 2 stealth alcm with a 600km range.

Jf17blk3 with awac support to counter rafale

 

[Suriya]

RAAD 2 stealth alcm with a 600km range.

Jf17blk3 with awac support to counter rafale

Sub sonic missile like RAAD can be easily spotted taken out by air defenses.

 

[Windjammer]

Sub sonic missile like RAAD can be easily spotted taken out by air defenses.

RAAD is much smaller and stealthier than the JF-17 and Mirages that paid a visit to IOK in broad day light.

 

[Suriya]

RAAD is much smaller and stealthier than the JF-17 and Mirages that paid a visit to IOK in broad day light.

JF-17 and Mirages didn't cross LoC and SoW weapon they carried didn't go beyond 40km from LoC.