Punjab divided into smaller provinces.

[alibaz]

At the time of independence, Punjab bore the brunt of partition. No other province of (present day) Pakistan was bifurcated. Why Punjab every time ?


Jag Punjabi jag teri pug nu lag gaya dagh

Yes Punjab bore the brunt, it was divided, divided unjust and people of few districts came to know at very last moment that they form part of India instead of Pakistan and the rest is history. Don't forget those other than Punjabis who left their properties and businesses and chose to migrated, meaning there were so many others as well who scarified for this land.
I believe its not only Punjab which needs to transformed into at least 3 provinces but others also need to be divided. Its very unfair that only one province decides which party will government. All the resources are directed to Lahore and rest of Punjab and Pakistan is dry. I think this needs to be done without emotions and prejudices.

 

[Kabira]

Nope barey sobay ney zulm kiya and shit like that when we have small provinces inter-provincial competition between same ethnic provinces will lead to a decrease in ethnic sentiment people will actually focus more on issues
Do you really think without qouta and funds manjan mqm can really sell the mazlom card?It will become harder to sell after a radical change in our nation,s administrative bodies

Again what punjab have to do with Sindh quota? You think sindh will give away rural quota after punjab is divided? You realise Sindh nationalists don't care about punjab as long as Sindh isn't divided? After 18th amendment these differences with in provinces are even more bigger politically.

That movement is good as dead as more it had a spark with ANP in power but with PTI its kind of losing that flare it once had

ANP is isn't dead, they got 550,000 votes vs PTI 1 million and N-league 850,000 votes (mostly in hazara division) in 2013.

 

[Syed1.]

The main reason Punjab needs to be divided is that they will voting Nasoor Sharif and imposing him on the rest of us Pakistanis.

 

[StandForInsaf]

The main reason Punjab needs to be divided is that they will voting Nasoor Sharif and imposing him on the rest of us Pakistanis.

No thats not the reason , we should be creating non ethnic smaller administrative units .

 

[Kabira]

The main reason Punjab needs to be divided is that they will voting Nasoor Sharif and imposing him on the rest of us Pakistanis.

Nawaz is gone but you are still crying after imposing monster like Altaf on Karachi. Which tells me problem isn’t Nawaz and neither it can be solved by dividing punjab.

Muhajir province isn’t happening, give it up.

 

[notorious_eagle]

The main reason Punjab needs to be divided is that they will voting Nasoor Sharif and imposing him on the rest of us Pakistanis.

I am a Punjabi, and would never vote for Nawaz Sharif. Despite all the riggings and fielding the most powerful candidates, PML-N was only able to secure 30% of the popular vote in Punjab during the 2013 elections. That hardly makes it the most popular party in Punjab that despite all the massive riggings, their popular vote was not even half of the electorate. Just watch in the next upcoming elections, i fully expect PTI to win more seats than PML-N in Punjab. That is strictly contingent on the fact that PTI continues with its reorganizations, homework and only fields the right candidates.

Back to the topic. I agree, Punjab should be split up. It is too big for Lahore to handle it administratively.

 

[Kabira]

I am a Punjabi, and would never vote for Nawaz Sharif. Despite all the riggings and fielding the most powerful candidates, PML-N was only able to secure 30% of the popular vote in Punjab during the 2013 elections. That hardly makes it the most popular party in Punjab that despite all the massive riggings, their popular vote was not even half of the electorate. Just watch in the next upcoming elections, i fully expect PTI to win more seats than PML-N in Punjab. That is strictly contingent on the fact that PTI continues with its reorganizations, homework and only fields the right candidates.

Back to the topic. I agree, Punjab should be split up. It is too big for Lahore to handle it administratively.

That's how parliamentary system works, N-league doesn't need to win majority of votes and neither PTI. Its not like MQM getting 99% of muhajir votes and winning seats in Karachi despite only being half of population. We already knew there is way more competition between federal parties like PTI vs N-league in punjab then any other province.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Yes Punjab bore the brunt, it was divided, divided unjust and people of few districts came to know at very last moment that they form part of India instead of Pakistan and the rest is history. Don't forget those other than Punjabis who left their properties and businesses and chose to migrated, meaning there were so many others as well who scarified for this land.

There is no denying that other Muslims (besides Punjabis) also suffered during partition but the scale and depth of the suffering of Punjab and Punjabis is not comparable to that of non-Punjabis. Nearly six million Muslims were expelled from East Punjab by Hindus and Sikhs. An estimated 0.5-0.8 million of them never made it alive to Pakistan. 2.5 % of those who made it alive to Pakistan, settled outside Pakistani Punjab. As per 1951 census, i.e. four years later, the total number of "Punjabi Mohajirs" in Pakistani Punjab was 5.28 million.

While population of Karachi grew dramatically after partition in August 1947, as per the 1951 census, the total population of Karachi was 1.1 million out of which only 0.6 million were Mohajirs, including Mohajirs from Punjab and Delhi. The most violent phase of partition lasted until November 1947 and by that time no Muslim was left in Indian Punjab. On the other hand, most of the Mohajirs from UP, Bihar, Gujrat etc. came to Karachi in later years under relatively much calmer circumstances. Almost one hundred thousand Mohajirs kept coming to Karachi every year, as late as 1954.

 

[El Sidd]

Its more of an administrative emergency to divide Punjab into atleast 3 or 4 smaller contingencies.

The sooner the better.

The economic divide between the North and the South is creating a massive problem which can only get worse if this goes unattended.

 

[M. Sarmad]

The economic divide between the North and the South is creating a massive problem which can only get worse if this goes unattended.

The principal source of income for provinces is land revenues and tax on agricultural income and luxuries etc. Provincial governments are heavily dependent on the Center that has all the important sources of revenues under its jurisdiction and which distributes more than 80% funds from the divisible pool among the provinces on the basis of population. Even if South Punjab is separated from North, there are hardly any chances of 'economic growth' as its population is less than 30% of Punjab's total population and it already receives more than 30% of Punjab's total budget for development. Not much is going to change for them even if South Punjab becomes a separate province except that the economic disparity between the rich and the poor, and the huge investments in infrastructure (required for administering/running a new province) can very well make the situation even worse. Rhetoric aside, creating new provinces without settling the "Federation vs Province" debate is pointless, at least from the economic point of view. In my opinion, instead of creating new provinces, effective devolution along with fiscal and administrative decentralization (i.e. transfer of resources and power to lower-level authorities, preferably District level) is a much better option/solution.

 

[alibaz]

There is no denying that other Muslims (besides Punjabis) also suffered during partition but the scale and depth of the suffering of Punjab and Punjabis is not comparable to that of non-Punjabis. Nearly six million Muslims were expelled from East Punjab by Hindus and Sikhs. An estimated 0.5-0.8 million of them never made it alive to Pakistan. 2.5 % of those who made it alive to Pakistan, settled outside Pakistani Punjab. As per 1951 census, i.e. four years later, the total number of "Punjabi Mohajirs" in Pakistani Punjab was 5.28 million.

While population of Karachi grew dramatically after partition in August 1947, as per the 1951 census, the total population of Karachi was 1.1 million out of which only 0.6 million were Mohajirs, including Mohajirs from Punjab and Delhi. The most violent phase of partition lasted until November 1947 and by that time no Muslim was left in Indian Punjab. On the other hand, most of the Mohajirs from UP, Bihar, Gujrat etc. came to Karachi in later years under relatively much calmer circumstances. Almost one hundred thousand Mohajirs kept coming to Karachi every year, as late as 1954.

So whats your point

The principal source of income for provinces is land revenues and tax on agricultural income and luxuries etc. Provincial governments are heavily dependent on the Center that has all the important sources of revenues under its jurisdiction and which distributes more than 80% funds from the divisible pool among the provinces on the basis of population. Even if South Punjab is separated from North, there are hardly any chances of 'economic growth' as its population is less than 30% of Punjab's total population and it already receives more than 30% of Punjab's total budget for development. Not much is going to change for them even if South Punjab becomes a separate province except that the economic disparity between the rich and the poor, and the huge investments in infrastructure (required for administering/running a new province) can very well make the situation even worse. Rhetoric aside, creating new provinces without settling the "Federation vs Province" debate is pointless, at least from the economic point of view. In my opinion, instead of creating new provinces, effective devolution along with fiscal and administrative decentralization (i.e. transfer of resources and power to lower-level authorities, preferably District level) is a much better option/solution.

Punjab should be transformed into at least three province i.e. Pothohar region, Central Punjab and South Punjab so don't restrict your self to South Punjab only. Secondly its not only the population which dictates distribution of funds from federation to provinces, there are other factors like generation of revenue and backwardness from rest of the areas. Thirdly, had South Punjab received 30% of budget, it would have been in much better shape since majority of funds are directed to Lahore only.
As you suggested effective devolution, in my opinion smaller units is a step towards same direction and as far as fiscal and administrative decentralization (i.e. transfer of resources and power to lower-level authorities, preferably District level) is concerned, the 2% ruling elite cannot produce that much people to run those system therefore, larger units and centralized control suits them and you can yourself see fate of local governments all over country yourself. That is why our MPs whose primary job is legislation are involved in municipality level jobs like roads/ streets construction, water schemes etc. Dividing province into smaller province will ultimately beneficial for country.

 

[M. Sarmad]

So whats your point

That Punjab bore the brunt of partition ...

Punjab should be transformed into at least three province i.e. Pothohar region, Central Punjab and South Punjab so don't restrict your self to South Punjab only.

Income/expenditure per capita in the Potohar Region is at par with that of the Central Punjab. It is the South (and West) Punjab that is comparatively poor.

Secondly its not only the population which dictates distribution of funds from federation to provinces, there are other factors like generation of revenue and backwardness from rest of the areas.

I didn't say that its only the population which dictates distribution of funds from federation to provinces, but it's the major factor. More than 80% (82%) funds from the divisible pool are distributed among the provinces on the basis of population and it remains by far the largest and the most significant factor. As for revenue generation, North Punjab generates much more Revenue than the South Punjab therefore fund distribution based on the generation of revenue will be disadvantageous to the South.

Thirdly, had South Punjab received 30% of budget, it would have been in much better shape since majority of funds are directed to Lahore only.

Yes, Lahore gets the Lion's share but in the 2017 annual development plan of the province, southern Punjab had been given 32% share while its population is 31% of the total number of people living in the province.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/140021-Lahore-gets-58pc-share-in-development-budget

the 2% ruling elite cannot produce that much people to run those system therefore, larger units and centralized control suits them

You don't need extra people/machinery for that. It's already in place. All you need to do is to "empower" them.

 

[Kabira]

South punjab in NFC in best care scenario will get 34% from Islamabad if all three division are including like Multan, DG Khan and Bahawalpur which make 30% punjab population.

Calculating based on 2017 NFC they will get Rs390b, its own provincial revenues will be very low. Perhaps 5% more. Now it gets at minimum 1/3 of all punjab budget which is Rs670 billion. Thats because tax revnues in punjab have doubled since every few years, thats mostly because of tax service on major cities Lahore. Just like in Sindh, Karachi make major of chunk of service tax share like eating out in restaurants etc

So whats your point


Punjab should be transformed into at least three province i.e. Pothohar region, Central Punjab and South Punjab so don't restrict your self to South Punjab only. Secondly its not only the population which dictates distribution of funds from federation to provinces, there are other factors like generation of revenue and backwardness from rest of the areas. Thirdly, had South Punjab received 30% of budget, it would have been in much better shape since majority of funds are directed to Lahore only.
As you suggested effective devolution, in my opinion smaller units is a step towards same direction and as far as fiscal and administrative decentralization (i.e. transfer of resources and power to lower-level authorities, preferably District level) is concerned, the 2% ruling elite cannot produce that much people to run those system therefore, larger units and centralized control suits them and you can yourself see fate of local governments all over country yourself. That is why our MPs whose primary job is legislation are involved in municipality level jobs like roads/ streets construction, water schemes etc. Dividing province into smaller province will ultimately beneficial for country.

In punjab budget redistribution is much better then any other province. Just see KP, Sindh and Balochistan. In KP they mostly spend on central KP. Hazara divison which generate over Rs50b on Tarbela dam royalties alone for KP doesn't get much attention. South KP people always cry otherwise they wouldn't vote for Fazal who is in opposition. Same is the case in Sindh.

Meanwhile in punjab N league interestingly win all over punjab. Ethnic minorities in other provinces who wish to have their own province and they keep coming up with ridiculous lies of most of budget being spent on Lahore.

 

[alibaz]

South punjab in NFC in best care scenario will get 34% from Islamabad if all three division are including like Multan, DG Khan and Bahawalpur which make 30% punjab population.

Calculating based on 2017 NFC they will get Rs390b, its own provincial revenues will be very low. Perhaps 5% more. Now it gets at minimum 1/3 of all punjab budget which is Rs670 billion. Thats because tax revnues in punjab have doubled since every few years, thats mostly because of tax service on major cities Lahore. Just like in Sindh, Karachi make major of chunk of service tax share like eating out in restaurants etc

In punjab budget redistribution is much better then any other province. Just see KP, Sindh and Balochistan. In KP they mostly spend on central KP. Hazara divison which generate over Rs50b on Tarbela dam royalties alone for KP doesn't get much attention. South KP people always cry otherwise they wouldn't vote for Fazal who is in opposition. Same is the case in Sindh.

Meanwhile in punjab N league interestingly win all over punjab. Ethnic minorities in other provinces who wish to have their own province and they keep coming up with ridiculous lies of most of budget being spent on Lahore.

Better distribution is a relative term and doesn't mean the desired standard. Isn't it interesting that Hazara doesn't get attention but the ethnic minorities in Punjab comes up with ridiculous lies of spending on Lahore.
If N league interestingly wins all over Punjab they can still interestingly win all over north, central and south Punjab (whatever you name them) then what is the issue. Please don't impress us with budget figures these are only good for presentations. Mr Dar is quite notorious for such gimmicks and country has already paid fine for his false projections during Musharraf's era.
Since when restaurants have become largest or major source of income for governments since many of those don't even accept credit cards to evade reflection of their turnout.

 

[Kabira]

Better distribution is a relative term and doesn't mean the desired standard. Isn't it interesting that Hazara doesn't get attention but the ethnic minorities in Punjab comes up with ridiculous lies of spending on Lahore.
If N league interestingly wins all over Punjab they can still interestingly win all over north, central and south Punjab (whatever you name them) then what is the issue. Please don't impress us with budget figures these are only good for presentations. Mr Dar is quite notorious for such gimmicks and country has already paid fine for his false projections during Musharraf's era.
Since when restaurants have become largest or major source of income for governments since many of those don't even accept credit cards to evade reflection of their turnout.

I said ethnic minorities from other provinces come with ridiculous lies about Lahore budget as they themselves want their own provinces to be divided. Ethnic minorities don't exist in punjab because its relatively homogeneous unlike other provinces. If south punjab is getting 1/3 of punjab budget which will be more then what it will get under NFC then distribution is fair.

I gave example of service tax and other provincial revenues earned from big urban centres have doubled in punjab every few years, so much that now NFC award from federal only make 62% of punjab budget.

Punjab which is only province without ethnic hatred issues doesn't need to import that culture from other provinces. Keep fighting it out yourself over quotas, target killings, language in your own provinces.