Punjab divided into smaller provinces.

[alibaz]

That Punjab bore the brunt of partition ...

Agreed but my concern was your jag punjabi jag .... slogan in post #4

Income/expenditure per capita in the Potohar Region is at par with that of the Central Punjab. It is the South (and West) Punjab that is comparatively poor.

Punjab be divided into at least three provinces and if it requires some changes in parameters, That must be done and all areas of country be given chance to develop evenly to maximum possible extent.

I didn't say that its only the population which dictates distribution of funds from federation to provinces, but it's the major factor. More than 80% (82%) funds from the divisible pool are distributed among the provinces on the basis of population and it remains by far the largest and the most significant factor. As for revenue generation, North Punjab generates much more Revenue than the South Punjab therefore fund distribution based on the generation of revenue will be disadvantageous to the South.

So if it is on generation of revenue then Sindh should get maximum and within Sindh everything should go to Karachi. But this is not and should not be the distribution system, I believe the time has come once formula of distribution of funds needs to be amended suitably giving priority to narrow down backwardness of areas in all provinces with respect to developed areas.

Yes, Lahore gets the Lion's share but in the 2017 annual development plan of the province, southern Punjab had been given 32% share while its population is 31% of the total number of people living in the province.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/140021-Lahore-gets-58pc-share-in-development-budget

I believe you have included Rs 2 Billion package to Lodhran announced by PM during Saddiqe Baloch's election campaign into 32% share of south punjab.

You don't need extra people/machinery for that. It's already in place. All you need to do is to "empower" them.

You have elected people all over Pakistan but the 2% ruling elite doesn't want to empower them. Can you tell me any of the province running local bodies in true spirit, a big no.

I said ethnic minorities from other provinces come with ridiculous lies about Lahore budget as they themselves want their own provinces to be divided. Ethnic minorities don't exist in punjab because its relatively homogeneous unlike other provinces. If south punjab is getting 1/3 of punjab budget which will be more then what it will get under NFC then distribution is fair.

I gave example of service tax and other provincial revenues earned from big urban centres have doubled in punjab every few years, so much that now NFC award from federal only make 62% of punjab budget.

Punjab which is only province without ethnic hatred issues doesn't need to import that culture from other provinces. Keep fighting it out yourself over quotas, target killings, language in your own provinces.

We have ethnic distributions in Punjab and there are no issues among them but that does not mean that it cannot be sub divided for better administration. At the same time the perception which is fact too that one single province decides who will come in Federal Government for next 5 years, should be curbed and for that we need dividing provinces into smaller units including Punjab.

 

[Kabira]

We have ethnic distributions in Punjab and there are no issues among them but that does not mean that it cannot be sub divided for better administration. At the same time the perception which is fact too that one single province decides who will come in Federal Government for next 5 years, should be curbed and for that we need dividing provinces into smaller units including Punjab.

But punjab already is best governed province in Pakistan. This stupid argument sound funny coming from people of other provinces. It decide federal because people vote for federal parties and not their nasal prast mohala parties.

Punjab only have about half of seats as long as it keep voting for federal parties then obviously it will be playground. While smaller opposition parties in other provinces will try to make alliance with party who win big in punjab. That how it will always be unless other provinces too vote for federal parties and not on ethnic basis.

Punjab isn't going anywhere even if you divide it in 4 but we need whole new system for more provinces. Keep couple of things in mind. No punjab only division. And no city should be made as separate province for so called good governance when we know the ground realities.

Moeed Pirzada who is punjabi himself as I've seen him speak punjabi on talk shows, is just POTI fanboy. Who think dividing punjab is only way for PTI to ever win. You can't change whole system for one party who can't even make majority in province like KP.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Agreed but my concern was your jag punjabi jag .... slogan in post #4

No province has sacrificed more than Punjab but we get all the blame for the failure of other provincial governments in their respective provinces ... why ?

So if it is on generation of revenue then Sindh should get maximum and within Sindh everything should go to Karachi. But this is not and should not be the distribution system, I believe the time has come once formula of distribution of funds needs to be amended suitably giving priority to narrow down backwardness of areas in all provinces with respect to developed areas.

Punjab is the largest contributor to the National Economy of Pakistan and it alone contributes (almost) 60% to Pakistan's GDP, more than twice the contribution made by Sindh. Only 5% of the federal funds are distributed among provinces on the basis of revenue generation, 82% on basis of Population. So, in a way, Punjab gets less than what it contributes.

Agreed on the second part. We can follow the (post reunification) German model. Funds should be distributed on the basis of 'need' and for the next ten years or so all the development funds as well as all kinds of investments should be made in those districts/provinces only which are least developed. But for that we need a stronger federation, lesser provincial autonomy and preferably fewer provinces (rather than more).

I believe you have included Rs 2 Billion package to Lodhran announced by PM during Saddiqe Baloch's election campaign into 32% share of south punjab.

You are free to believe in whatever you want but beliefs don't change facts.

You have elected people all over Pakistan but the 2% ruling elite doesn't want to empower them. Can you tell me any of the province running local bodies in true spirit, a big no.

Yes, the ruling elite doesn't want to empower them because it's not in their interest (but of common man). More provinces don't harm their interests as much as the devolution of power to grass root level does.

 

[Bouncer]

Resource distribution will not change even if you divide punjab in to 9 divisions. If anything new provinces will need to be accommodated with equal representation in CCI, senate etc Then the usual cry will start again, trust me. This is why JUI-F want FATA to be separate province because they rather have their own representation in senate, CCI etc which are on equal basis in Islamabad then through Peshawar.

Sorry I don't understand your logic that "resource distribution will not change even if you divide Punjab in to 9 divisions".

Problem is that resource distribution within Punjab is not fair. Each unit in the Federation is supposed to get population-wise resource share and spend it accordingly. Currently Punjab gets its overall share. No problems there. But then this share is spent unfairly on some areas while others remain neglected inside Punjab.

Solution is to divide Punjab, and any other unit facing this problem e.g. Urban and Rural Sindh, in to smaller units. Of course some might still complain in these smaller units that xyz area in this unit is being neglected, but the scale of problem would be local affecting a few million people, rather than tens of millions (South Punjab, Potohar, Karachi) like today.

regards

 

[Kabira]

Sorry I don't understand your logic that "resource distribution will not change even if you divide Punjab in to 9 divisions".

Problem is that resource distribution within Punjab is not fair. Each unit in the Federation is supposed to get population-wise resource share and spend it accordingly. Currently Punjab gets its overall share. No problems there. But then this share is spent unfairly on some areas while others remain neglected inside Punjab.

Solution is to divide Punjab, and any other unit facing this problem e.g. Urban and Rural Sindh, in to smaller units. Of course some might still complain in these smaller units that xyz area in this unit is being neglected, but the scale of problem would be local affecting a few million people, rather than tens of millions (South Punjab, Potohar, Karachi) like today.

regards

I’m sorry but even if punjab is divided it doesn’t mean Karachi is made province. You know how stupid it is? Its like stabbing Sindh in the back. Also natives in Karachi feel more secure when federal party PPP is ruling then ethnic based MQM. I ask again people to give up their dreams and stop looking to make issue out of nothing.

And resource distribution is fair across the board 1/3 of punjab budget is spent in South. More is spent in central because lt has more population and districts, this fact will nor change with more provinces.

more is spent on Karachi then Hydrabad, should we cry about that? Karachi to gets its fair share now that census is out to clear things.

 

[asif1986]

Sorry I don't understand your logic that "resource distribution will not change even if you divide Punjab in to 9 divisions".

Problem is that resource distribution within Punjab is not fair. Each unit in the Federation is supposed to get population-wise resource share and spend it accordingly. Currently Punjab gets its overall share. No problems there. But then this share is spent unfairly on some areas while others remain neglected inside Punjab.
regards

Is resource distribution fair in any other province.

 

[M. Sarmad]

The main reason Punjab needs to be divided is that they will voting Nasoor Sharif and imposing him on the rest of us Pakistanis.

We have had 19 Prime Ministers since 1947, Only 7 of them Punjabis. In the country's 70 years history, Pakistan has been headed by a Punjabi PM for less than 18 years (including the 5 years tenure of Punjabi PM's belonging to the Sindh based PPP, i.e. Gilani and Pervez Ashraf). Of the 12 Presidents, only 4 hailed from Punjab. And of the 4 Dictators who had imposed martial law and ruled this country, only 1 (i.e Zia ul Haq) was a Punjabi, two were ethnic Pashtuns and one 'Urdu-Speaking'. Please tell us again how many times has Punjab (and Punjabis) "imposed" Punjabi leaders on Pakistan (and on the rest of Pakistanis) ???

 

[Syed1.]

We have had 19 Prime Ministers since 1947, Only 7 of them Punjabis. In the country's 70 years history, Pakistan has been headed by a Punjabi PM for less than 18 years (including the 5 years tenure of Punjabi PM's belonging to the Sindh based PPP, i.e. Gilani and Pervez Ashraf). Of the 12 Presidents, only 4 hailed from Punjab. And of the 4 Dictators who had imposed martial law and ruled this country, only 1 (i.e Zia ul Haq) was a Punjabi, two were ethnic Pashtuns and one 'Urdu-Speaking'. Please tell us again how many times has Punjab (and Punjabis) "imposed" Punjabi leaders on Pakistan (and on the rest of Pakistanis) ???

Thank you for the history listen. Please show me where in my post have I said that Punjab kept imposing leaders on the rest of Pakistan IN THE PAST. I just said that they will keep voting for Nawaz Sharif (or the Sharif khandaan) while the royal khandaan has next to no support in the rest of Pakistan. Even despite the Panama case and the disqualification the Sharif khandaan enjoys wide spread support amongst the masses of Punjab especially the rural areas and they will continue to vote for him/them come hail or high water much to the dismay of the rest of Pakistan who's voice has been curbed and Punjab decides who will be PM.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Thank you for the history listen. Please show me where in my post have I said that Punjab kept imposing leaders on the rest of Pakistan IN THE PAST. I just said that they will keep voting for Nawaz Sharif (or the Sharif khandaan) while the royal khandaan has next to no support in the rest of Pakistan. Even despite the Panama case and the disqualification the Sharif khandaan enjoys wide spread support amongst the masses of Punjab especially the rural areas and they will continue to vote for him/them come hail or high water much to the dismay of the rest of Pakistan who's voice has been curbed and Punjab decides who will be PM.

What is the basis of your claim that Punjab will keep voting for Nawaz Sharif and keep imposing him on the rest of Pakistan when Punjab has no history of "imposing" leaders on Pakistan ??

 

[Kabira]

Karachites are hypocrites, in other thread they are firmly against giving even fair representation to Karachi people but here they can't stop talking about dividing punjab. We know the reasons and for that reason Sindh will never be divided even if all 3 provinces are divided in 10 pieces.

 

[Syed1.]

What is the basis of your claim that Punjab will keep voting for Nawaz Sharif and keep imposing him on the rest of Pakistan when Punjab has no history of "imposing" leaders on Pakistan ??

Obviously I'm no fortune teller. I can only go by the 2013 elections and videos like these and many more:

Then they say Punjabi don't vote for Nawaz Sharif

 

[M. Sarmad]

Obviously I'm no fortune teller. I can only go by the 2013 elections and videos like these and many more:

Then they say Punjabi don't vote for Nawaz Sharif

So, based on a random video and opinions of around 10 people from NS's constituency before the by-election that is going to be conducted under PMLN government anyway, you have somehow concluded that Punjab should be divided ???

 

[Syed1.]

So, based on a random video and opinions of around 10 people from NS's constituency before the by-election that is going to be conducted under PMLN government anyway, you have somehow concluded that Punjab should be divided ???

Ok sir lets reverse the situation in a hypothetical scenario where Karachi has 50+ population of Pakistan. MQM who wins everytime from Karachi (whether that is good thing or bad thing is another debate), wins from only Karachi and elects their PM. They don't have any vote in Punjab/Sindh etc and have no need to pay attention to any of those areas. Will such a situation be acceptable to you?

 

[Kabira]

Ok sir lets reverse the situation in a hypothetical scenario where Karachi has 50+ population of Pakistan. MQM who wins everytime from Karachi (whether that is good thing or bad thing is another debate), wins from only Karachi and elects their PM. They don't have any vote in Punjab/Sindh etc and have no need to pay attention to any of those areas. Will such a situation be acceptable to you?

That's why NFC award exist. what a retarded moron you are It wouldn't matter much because punjab/sindh will gets its duo share.

 

[Mian Babban]

(i.e Zia ul Haq) was a Punjabi, two were ethnic Pashtuns and one 'Urdu-Speaking'.

There have been two Urduspeakers, Pervez Musharaf and Mirza Aslam Beg