PTI Haqeeqi Azadi March Oct 2022 - News and Updates

[Ssan]

Seerah Ishaq was compiled way before Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslims. Being closer to the period of the Prophet,Its arguably more authentic. All the early Muslims relied on the biography compiled by Ibn Ishaq to understand the life of the Prophet. The epistemology (isnad analysis) of hadith science is a deeply flawed field. You can't reject or accept a narration on the basis of isnad. For all we know, the isnad may be a later fabrication and in the best case scenario, it doesn't guarantee the people in the chain of transmission did meet each other in real life.

Let's assume it's a fabrication.

Why would Ibn Ishaq include it in his book, given its embarrassing depiction of the Prophet torturing prisoners to extract information. He ( and the countless scholars who relied on him for seerah) clearly believed it was authentic, not a mere hearsay. Using the embarrassment criterion, it's very likely a true story

So you are an expert in Islamic history? Or understanding Islam now too? It doesn’t suffice for you that we can just show that we believe this report - believe it to be a fabrication?

The seerah of ibn ishaq is a useful source of information. But within the seerah itself, you have contradicting accounts- this is because tareekh(history) and seerah (by extension somewhat) in Islam are not not ever taken to be a source of Islam or understanding Islam. They are an attempt to record what is being reported rather or what is said. Ibn Ishaq will record everything that is being reported whether or not he agrees with it.

You can have all your beliefs about Hadith and isnad but they are all irrelevant. You can also believe that the earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese. This has no bearing on how Islam is understood by Muslims. Nor does this make your approach intelligent.

Even the Hadith are not perfect. They serve as context for Quran. The elements in the seerah are to be taken for granted only in as so much as they are authenticated by rigorous historical approach.

 

[HAIDER]

"...epitomizes Battle between ordinary Pakistanis led by PM @ImranKhanPTI & elite capturing status quo Mafia lead by Gen. Bajwa"

Total BS. Five thousand people in a city of 15 million participating in this manhoos topi drama of long march of a manhoos idiot! And this is an epitomize? Total BS.

These mama-pappa productions live in their own world and then try to analyze a world that they don't really live in. I am sure this guy and those who believe him will start cursing Pakistani people in a few days.


"When the PDM brought in power with a regime change operation ..." BS and lies from a bloody liar.

How many times you need the government of Pakistan and official of our top agency (i.e. ISI) telling you that there is not even a shred to be found known as operation regime change. PTI junkies love to live in delusions and lies. Good for them.

A place calls " fools heaven " ... enjoy.

 

[Ssan]

Seerah Ishaq was compiled way before Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslims. Being closer to the period of the Prophet,Its arguably more authentic. All the early Muslims relied on the biography compiled by Ibn Ishaq to understand the life of the Prophet. The epistemology (isnad analysis) of hadith science is a deeply flawed field. You can't reject or accept a narration on the basis of isnad. For all we know, the isnad may be a later fabrication and in the best case scenario, it doesn't guarantee the people in the chain of transmission did meet each other in real life.

Let's assume it's a fabrication.

Why would Ibn Ishaq include it in his book, given its embarrassing depiction of the Prophet torturing prisoners to extract information. He ( and the countless scholars who relied on him for seerah) clearly believed it was authentic, not a mere hearsay. Using the embarrassment criterion, it's very likely a true story

Btw, his own students Bakkai and Hisham through which his works are preserved to an extent- knew that the reports were not authentic and tried to filter out the worst and most egregious of it. Ibn Hanbal only took from it the accounts of Magghazi (stories of battles) and nothing else related to Fiqh because it wa untrustworthy.

Btw, there are Hadith compilations from before ibn Ishaq- musnaf abdurrazak.

 

[Eskander]

I am sorry but you are talking non-sense. It's none of their business to bring this or that person to power. They were in that business before March of this year. After seeing the disastrous results of their latest experiment (to bring a loose character to power and changing his nappies on daily basis on domestic as well as diplomatic fronts), they gave up that practice.

BTW, the current government came to power through a constitutional process (of no confidence motion).

IK is insisting and trying to blackmail them to get into ultra-constitutional practice again by demanding that they should send this government packing. Under which constitutional clause they can do that?

Here's my prediction

Imran Khan will win the next election ( and maybe the one after that if he doesn't fail miserably) and do nothing substantial for the country

He is running after the seat without a plan

 

[Ssan]

I am sorry but you are talking non-sense. It's none of their business to bring this or that person to power. They were in that business before March of this year. After seeing the disastrous results of their latest experiment (to bring a loose character to power and changing his nappies on daily basis on domestic as well as diplomatic fronts), they gave up that practice.

BTW, the current government came to power through a constitutional process (of no confidence motion).

IK is insisting and trying to blackmail them to get into ultra-constitutional practice again by demanding that they should send this government packing. Under which constitutional clause they can do that?

Here is what might happen-

- mr BJ will give mr MQM a call. He will say, kindly disregard that we asked you to vote for SS- you can vote for whoever you want now- we won’t be your sugar daddies anymore- president will call vote of no confidence- which SS will lose. President will then call for elections.

It will be a “constitutional process” same as before. But will be replaced by parliament that won’t have the effect of being controlled by third parties because PTI will have 2/3rds majority

 

[Eskander]

The same constitutional process where army once told us that Ali wazir is a traitor yet was brought in to vote?or nazim jhokio's murder was brought from Dubai overnight and sent back after the vote?
Kindly enlighten us about all the courts cases finishing in PDM favour despite having undeniable evidence?
Was that a constitutional process as well?

All well known reporters are forced to flee the country, under which constitution?
Having 16 FIR's on arshad, yet having the audacity to come on tv and ask where were the threats?
Claiming to be apolitical yet having an entire political motivated press conference.

Come up with better arguments next time before defending like a batman aka army fan boi

How does that relate to a parliamentary process ?

I understand what you are saying but it's also true for Imran Khan. Why wasn't Imran Khan disqualified in the Toshakhana case during his time in government ? Inb4 you say they are bogus cases, it doesn't look good for Imran Khan.

Every political leader is dishonest in Pakistan, some ( Nawaz Sharif ) more than others ( Imran Khan ).

 

[Ssan]

Here is what might happen-

- mr BJ will give mr MQM a call. He will say, kindly disregard that we asked you to vote for SS- you can vote for whoever you want now- we won’t be your sugar daddies anymore- president will call vote of no confidence- which SS will lose. President will then call for elections.

It will be a “constitutional process” same as before. But will be replaced by parliament that won’t have the effect of being controlled by third parties because PTI will have 2/3rds majority

If you were fine with this before, please don’t complain now. IK isn’t asking anybody to vote for him. He will form govt after going back to the voters

 

[Eskander]

Btw, his own students Bakkai and Hisham through which his works are preserved to an extent- knew that the reports were not authentic and tried to filter out the worst and most egregious of it. Ibn Hanbal only took from it the accounts of Magghazi (stories of battles) and nothing else related to Fiqh because it wa untrustworthy.

Btw, there are Hadith compilations from before ibn Ishaq- musnaf abdurrazak.

B4 someone bans me for engaging in religious discussion. The narration is from the maghazi literature. Ibn Hisham did report this incident...

 

[maverick1977]

list expanding


adding new clowns

1) @Death Adder
2) @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE
3) @Eskander

pls add more delusional and biryani lovers to the list

Adding a new imbecile and a fool

1) @Death Adder
2) @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE
3) @Eskander
4) @diligence

pls add more

 

[Eskander]

Adding a new imbecile and a fool

1) @Death Adder
2) @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE
3) @Eskander
4) @diligence

pls add more

Imran Khan denies talking about granting extension to Army chief Gen Bajwa

Pakistan's former prime minister Imran Khan on Tuesday denied talking about granting an extension to Army chief Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa, saying he had just proposed to defer the appointment of the new army chief till elections.

www.business-standard.com

Imran Khan denies talking about granting extension to Army chief Gen Bajwa​

Imran admits to offering army chief extension to save government

The PTI Chairman said he told the army chief that if the then opposition was offering him an extension then he could do the same.

www.siasat.com

Imran admits to offering army chief extension to save government​

Sharam tum ko magar nahi aati

 

[Ssan]

B4 someone bans me for engaging in religious discussion. The narration is from the maghazi literature. Ibn Hisham did report this incident...

If you were paying attention, the magghazi traditions are for sharing the accounts and stories to encourage people. These stories are never to be used for fiqh unless they are verified by Hadith sources.

Before you keep on insisting on this, please go read about seerah ibn Ishaq. The main oral tradition is lost. What is preserved is the two works by his students, hisham and Baqqai who themselves made it to a point to eliminate the most egregious and outrageous reports which they knew to be bogus.

Compare this with say Musnaff ABdurrazzak or muwata Malik, Hadith compilations, which exist in their original form because their students recorded and maintained them as they were.

Heck, even ibn Ishaq knew but he just recorded everything (even reports which contradicted each other).

 

[HAIDER]

Imran Khan denies talking about granting extension to Army chief Gen Bajwa

Pakistan's former prime minister Imran Khan on Tuesday denied talking about granting an extension to Army chief Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa, saying he had just proposed to defer the appointment of the new army chief till elections.

www.business-standard.com

Imran Khan denies talking about granting extension to Army chief Gen Bajwa​

Imran admits to offering army chief extension to save government

The PTI Chairman said he told the army chief that if the then opposition was offering him an extension then he could do the same.

www.siasat.com

Imran admits to offering army chief extension to save government​

Sharam tum ko magar nahi aati

chaloo extension ki baat kia ha na.......quam ka mall chori kar ka London,Dubai,Paris to tu nahi bhaja .............lolzz

 

[Jango]

Waisay samajh nhn arahi.

Agr poori march main 2000 banda hai, to why the media blackout? Why is Isb police threatening hotels and other companies to not host PTI attendees? And under what law? I hope someone takes them to court for this.

Why has Islamabad been turned into containeristan?

Why has the red zone area been extended?

 

[HAIDER]

Waisay samajh nhn arahi.

Agr poori march main 2000 banda hai, to why the media blackout? Why is Isb police threatening hotels and other companies to not host PTI attendees? And under what law? I hope someone takes them to court for this.

Why has Islamabad been turned into containeristan?

Why has the red zone area been extended?

khof isan ka sab sa bara dushman ha. ....................may be neutral say we are neutral in front of the camera. But they keep running pick and drop service behind the scene ...

 

[RealNapster]

death dint stop me lusting over Maryams plastic tittes when she murdered pregnant women in Model town!

Or the kid that came under tires of nawaza car in that same type of march he was doing. Didn't even cared to stop the march