Psychology of stealth

[Jammer]

http://www.businessinsider.com/psyc...tm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-ti

 

[F-22Raptor]

Retired US Marine Corps Maj. Dan Flatley will never forget the crushing feeling of helplessness he felt the first time he faced a stealth jet while he was flying in an F/A-18.

“I remember indelibly the moment in which the AWAC (airborne early warning and control plane) called out to me that there was a Raptor [an F-22 stealth fighter] in front of me at very close range that made me uncomfortable,” Flatley told Business Insider in a phone interview.

“I had no way of targeting him, no way of defending myself.”

Despite years of training to stay focused and level headed under the extreme pressures of air-to-air combat, a sense of dread set in.

Before even seeing the F-22, Flatley had already surrendered his composure, and therefore his ability to effectively fight back.

Years later, Flatley would come to pilot the F-35 and even design the curriculum for training pilots in the fifth-generation fighter, where he would tap into the crushing psychological effect of fighting a plane you can’t find.

While the F-35 represents the most expensive weapons system of all time, and is a frequent target of government critics who chastise the program for going over budget and schedule, Flatly says the real strength of stealth fighters doesn’t show up in any budget.

“What the public doesn’t realise is how dominant the difference in information is,” said Flatley. While the F-35 performs similarly to legacy jets in some areas like speed, turning, and range, there’s a huge, ever-growing information gap between what the F-35 pilot sees and what an F-18 pilot sees.

The F-35 features six cameras stationed around the jet and a helmet display that allows pilots to literally look through the jet as if it wasn’t there. It features the only infrared radar on a US fighter since the F-14, and uses unprecedented sensor-fusion capabilities to paint an incredibly vivid picture of its surroundings for miles out.

On top of all that, it’s stealth. So while the F-35 sees everything, it’s seen by almost no one.

Legacy jets, with the help of AWACs “may have a general idea that there’s an F-35 out there, but they don’t know exactly where we are,” said Flatley.

The distinct information disadvantage causes pilots to get tunnel vision, according to Flatley.

“Everything they see becomes the F-35 out there,” said Flatley. “Every radar hit, every communication is about the stealth jet. They want to illuminate or eliminate a threat they can’t handle.”

The fear and paranoia caused by the presence of stealth jets in a battle has a widespread effect on adversaries that “includes extremely capable legacy jets and certainly includes everything available to adversaries,” said Flatley of updated F-16s, F-15s, and even enemy air defences like Russia’s S-400.

Even extremely capable operators fall prey to the F-35’s psychological advantage. “It has nothing to do with their skill or technology. They’re at such a technological disadvantage,” said Flatley. “I’ve seen guys in F-18s turn directly in front of me and show me their tails cause they have no idea I’m there.”

In the end, “It aggregates to a completely inept response to what we’re doing in the air,” said Flatley. “People are so hellbent on shooting down the stealth fighter that they invariably make mistakes that I can exploit.”

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/psychological-effect-f-35-stealth-legacy-fighter-2017-5

 

[C130]

Retired US Marine Corps Maj. Dan Flatley will never forget the crushing feeling of helplessness he felt the first time he faced a stealth jet while he was flying in an F/A-18.

“I remember indelibly the moment in which the AWAC (airborne early warning and control plane) called out to me that there was a Raptor [an F-22 stealth fighter] in front of me at very close range that made me uncomfortable,” Flatley told Business Insider in a phone interview.

“I had no way of targeting him, no way of defending myself.”

Despite years of training to stay focused and level headed under the extreme pressures of air-to-air combat, a sense of dread set in.

Before even seeing the F-22, Flatley had already surrendered his composure, and therefore his ability to effectively fight back.

Years later, Flatley would come to pilot the F-35 and even design the curriculum for training pilots in the fifth-generation fighter, where he would tap into the crushing psychological effect of fighting a plane you can’t find.

While the F-35 represents the most expensive weapons system of all time, and is a frequent target of government critics who chastise the program for going over budget and schedule, Flatly says the real strength of stealth fighters doesn’t show up in any budget.

“What the public doesn’t realise is how dominant the difference in information is,” said Flatley. While the F-35 performs similarly to legacy jets in some areas like speed, turning, and range, there’s a huge, ever-growing information gap between what the F-35 pilot sees and what an F-18 pilot sees.

The F-35 features six cameras stationed around the jet and a helmet display that allows pilots to literally look through the jet as if it wasn’t there. It features the only infrared radar on a US fighter since the F-14, and uses unprecedented sensor-fusion capabilities to paint an incredibly vivid picture of its surroundings for miles out.

On top of all that, it’s stealth. So while the F-35 sees everything, it’s seen by almost no one.

Legacy jets, with the help of AWACs “may have a general idea that there’s an F-35 out there, but they don’t know exactly where we are,” said Flatley.

The distinct information disadvantage causes pilots to get tunnel vision, according to Flatley.

“Everything they see becomes the F-35 out there,” said Flatley. “Every radar hit, every communication is about the stealth jet. They want to illuminate or eliminate a threat they can’t handle.”

The fear and paranoia caused by the presence of stealth jets in a battle has a widespread effect on adversaries that “includes extremely capable legacy jets and certainly includes everything available to adversaries,” said Flatley of updated F-16s, F-15s, and even enemy air defences like Russia’s S-400.

Even extremely capable operators fall prey to the F-35’s psychological advantage. “It has nothing to do with their skill or technology. They’re at such a technological disadvantage,” said Flatley. “I’ve seen guys in F-18s turn directly in front of me and show me their tails cause they have no idea I’m there.”

In the end, “It aggregates to a completely inept response to what we’re doing in the air,” said Flatley. “People are so hellbent on shooting down the stealth fighter that they invariably make mistakes that I can exploit.”

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/psychological-effect-f-35-stealth-legacy-fighter-2017-5

“I remember indelibly the moment in which the AWAC (airborne early warning and control plane) called out to me that there was a Raptor [an F-22 stealth fighter] in front of me at very close range that made me uncomfortable,”

so AWAC can see the F-22?? I read that E-2D can track stealth aircraft!! if this is true then AWAC like the E-2D can guide AIM-120D with two way data link and SM-6 against the F-22 or J-20 in this case.

 

[khanmubashir]

so AWAC can see the F-22?? I read that E-2D can track stealth aircraft!! if this is true then AWAC like the E-2D can guide AIM-120D with two way data link and SM-6 against the F-22 or J-20 in this case.

AWACS can point out general position of jet but wether accurate enough to guide missile is debate able

AWACS can point out general position of jet but wether accurate enough to guide missile is debate able

Stealth jet

 

[C130]

AWACS can point out general position of jet but wether accurate enough to guide missile is debate able


Stealth jet

so all you gotta do is then remove the radar homing section of the AIM-120D and replace it with with IR homing head...let's say the MICA IR homing head. then the E-2D guides the AIM-10D IR towards the suspected location of stealth fighter then the IR head un-cages and starts searching for the stealth aircraft.

 

[gambit]

so AWAC can see the F-22?? I read that E-2D can track stealth aircraft!! if this is true then AWAC like the E-2D can guide AIM-120D with two way data link and SM-6 against the F-22 or J-20 in this case.

The article does not say that. Whether by design or not -- we may never know.

What the article did say was that the AWAC informed the major that there was an F-22 in front of him. How did the AWAC know that ? Unless the USAF come out and flatly state that the AWAC can radar 'see' the F-22, we may never know for sure.

For as little as the article have, the F-22 may have been the one to tell the AWAC 'Here I am...'

 

[The SC]

It is a Psy operation called "psychology of stealth", it sounds like no radar can see theF-22 at any distance! while there are charts that shows a stealth fighter is quite detectable from short distances..

 

[KAL-EL]

It is a Psy operation called "psychology of stealth", it sounds like no radar can see theF-22 at any distance! while there are charts that shows a stealth fighter is quite detectable from short distances..

If the F-22 Raptor can be seen at short distances by radar, then the j-20 or any other 'stealth aircraft' could also be just as detectable.

 

[gambit]

It is a Psy operation called "psychology of stealth", it sounds like no radar can see theF-22 at any distance! while there are charts that shows a stealth fighter is quite detectable from short distances..

I pointed this out on this forum yrs ago: That radar sees everything.

The issue is distance. Being low radar observable DOES NOT equal to being radar 'invisible'. The US never said such thing.

 

[The SC]

I pointed this out on this forum yrs ago: That radar sees everything.

The issue is distance. Being low radar observable DOES NOT equal to being radar 'invisible'. The US never said such thing.

I got curious when it said in the article that the F-18s were so close and had no idea where the F-22 was! it all depends on how close was meant by very close..
Cheers

 

[The SC]

If the F-22 Raptor can be seen at short distances by radar, then the j-20 or any other 'stealth aircraft' could also be just as detectable.

Of course, since there is no absolute Stealth..
The strength of any stealth fighter lies in its very low RCS; So by the time the existing radars find it, it will be almost too late to react to its attack with BVR missiles.. but now we do not know much what will happen with the popular air-borne long range AESA radars and IRST !?
Maybe @gambit can clarify this point further..

 

[gambit]

I got curious when it said in the article that the F-18s were so close and had no idea where the F-22 was! it all depends on how close was meant by very close..

Granted it is subjective, but I will put it this way...

http://www.hill.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/397247/sparrow-air-to-air-missile/
Range: About 30 nautical miles

...Any less and it is 'danger close' or 'very close'. Sidewinder range is less than 20 nm.

Most pilots have better than 20/20 vision and not only that, are better than average people at distinguishing patterns and movements among (visual) clutter. Am 54 and needs glasses only for reading and on the PC, but when on the road, most of the time I can spot the po-po before my friends can.

Most people, meaning the Russians and the Chinese, laughed at this anecdote...

http://www.acc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/202684/raptor-debuts-at-red-flag-dominates-skies/

"The thing denies your ability to put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it through the canopy," said RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, F-15 exchange pilot in the 65th AS. "It's the most frustrated I've ever been."

That was ten yrs ago. The engagement was 'danger close'. How many pilots, US and foreign, have had their nerves rattled since '07 and did not have the chance to express their awed, or were pressured to keep quiet about their experience ?

We do not care what Internet fools says about our 'stealth' platforms. If the time comes, their lives are not on the line, but their countrymen's who are pilots that must face a threat never seen before. At worst, these fools will be only red faced but their countrymen will be DEAD.

When I was on the F-111, all the aircrews, Lakenheath and Upper Heyford, knew that the jet's mission will not be supported by AWACS or escort protectors. Psychologically speaking, F-111 aircrews knows exactly the dread of uncertainty this article mentioned. You are going up against an opponent that not only is difficult to see by your weapons systems but he is also backed up by an unmatched technical support capability that your country cannot provide for you in training.

So when the article say this...

Before even seeing the F-22, Flatley had already surrendered his composure, and therefore his ability to effectively fight back.

...Effectively, half the battle has been lost before a bullet was fired.

 

[The SC]

Granted it is subjective, but I will put it this way...

http://www.hill.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/397247/sparrow-air-to-air-missile/
Range: About 30 nautical miles

...Any less and it is 'danger close' or 'very close'. Sidewinder range is less than 20 nm.

Most pilots have better than 20/20 vision and not only that, are better than average people at distinguishing patterns and movements among (visual) clutter. Am 54 and needs glasses only for reading and on the PC, but when on the road, most of the time I can spot the po-po before my friends can.

Most people, meaning the Russians and the Chinese, laughed at this anecdote...

http://www.acc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/202684/raptor-debuts-at-red-flag-dominates-skies/

That was ten yrs ago. The engagement was 'danger close'. How many pilots, US and foreign, have had their nerves rattled since '07 and did not have the chance to express their awed, or were pressured to keep quiet about their experience ?

We do not care what Internet fools says about our 'stealth' platforms. If the time comes, their lives are not on the line, but their countrymen's who are pilots that must face a threat never seen before. At worst, these fools will be only red faced but their countrymen will be DEAD.

When I was on the F-111, all the aircrews, Lakenheath and Upper Heyford, knew that the jet's mission will not be supported by AWACS or escort protectors. Psychologically speaking, F-111 aircrews knows exactly the dread of uncertainty this article mentioned. You are going up against an opponent that not only is difficult to see by your weapons systems but he is also backed up by an unmatched technical support capability that your country cannot provide for you in training.

So when the article say this...


...Effectively, half the battle has been lost before a bullet was fired.

This goes with the principle of Sun Tzu:

“The greatest victory is that which requires no battle.”

 

[Oldman1]

I got curious when it said in the article that the F-18s were so close and had no idea where the F-22 was! it all depends on how close was meant by very close..
Cheers

Probably this is a good explanation why F-35 and F-22 are hard to detect. Go to time index 5:30. And why the pilot realize how close the F-22 was. It matches to what Gambit mentioned when using the Sparrow missile as a reference when needing to get close to the target to use the missile effectively.

Another reason why the Russians and the Chinese are investing stealth programs.

 

[CriticalThought]

Granted it is subjective, but I will put it this way...

http://www.hill.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/397247/sparrow-air-to-air-missile/
Range: About 30 nautical miles

...Any less and it is 'danger close' or 'very close'. Sidewinder range is less than 20 nm.

Most pilots have better than 20/20 vision and not only that, are better than average people at distinguishing patterns and movements among (visual) clutter. Am 54 and needs glasses only for reading and on the PC, but when on the road, most of the time I can spot the po-po before my friends can.

Most people, meaning the Russians and the Chinese, laughed at this anecdote...

http://www.acc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/202684/raptor-debuts-at-red-flag-dominates-skies/

That was ten yrs ago. The engagement was 'danger close'. How many pilots, US and foreign, have had their nerves rattled since '07 and did not have the chance to express their awed, or were pressured to keep quiet about their experience ?

We do not care what Internet fools says about our 'stealth' platforms. If the time comes, their lives are not on the line, but their countrymen's who are pilots that must face a threat never seen before. At worst, these fools will be only red faced but their countrymen will be DEAD.

When I was on the F-111, all the aircrews, Lakenheath and Upper Heyford, knew that the jet's mission will not be supported by AWACS or escort protectors. Psychologically speaking, F-111 aircrews knows exactly the dread of uncertainty this article mentioned. You are going up against an opponent that not only is difficult to see by your weapons systems but he is also backed up by an unmatched technical support capability that your country cannot provide for you in training.

So when the article say this...


...Effectively, half the battle has been lost before a bullet was fired.

Agreed that F-22 is a very potent aircraft, still, there is a bit of empty chest thumping going on here.

1. If the AWACS tells you there is an F-22 in front of you, the correct thing is to shove a BVR down its throat and then evade. As already discussed on the thread, there is no such thing as a completely stealthy aircraft, the nearer the aircraft gets to the radar, the easier it is to detect. With the BVR's terminal active radar, and ability to even follow jamming signals, it is the right weapon to use, even though it is not guaranteed to be 100% effective. Yes, a pilot facing it the first time without prior briefing will be unnerved, but a pilot armed with this knowledge should do quite well.

2. Granted 1 above with a BVR of 100+ km is not going to be very effective. But then the Chinese VLRAAM comes into play. This actually has the USAF concerned. And its not only because of its ability to fly 400+ km in a straight line, but because it has longer legs to hunt for a longer time and get close enough to F-22 for its terminal active radar to be effective.

I can see how you guys spread the psychological advantage in your favor