Proxy war: Get over with diplomacy, take war to Pakistani soil - Lt Gen Prakash Katoch

[volatile]

Balochistan Insurgency
There are many sources from your own media, check it out before making it a troll fest.
The Baloch saga - Newspaper - DAWN.COM
Insurgencies by Baloch militants have occurred in 1948, 1958, and 1973. The ongoing one began in 2005. In the past the Baloch wanted greater autonomy and increased royalties from natural resources for provincial revenue.

Nothing specific and in contrast to Kasmir ,There are more than dozen more intensed seperation movement in India

 

[sathya]

Blaming from Both sides is mutual my friend...

If something Happens in India Fingers are pointed towards Pakistan and If something happens in Pakistan fingers are pointed towards India.... from past 67 years

But your Ministers said it publicly that give terrorists more money and they are on your side (Indian Side)

Pakistan army acts like a hired force
They are getting money for operations in Afghanistan , ( still back stabbing by hiding OBL at attobobad )

When a professional force act this way , can we expect any morality with militants ?
They ll do whatever for whoever who pays more..

 

[nair]

the funny (or tragic) part is that the Indians present the similar comments from Hafiz Saeed or mobile numbers and conversation of the unknown as a solid proof of Pakistani state involvement of ISI

Forget the phone number and let us assume that there is "0" evidence against anyone from pakistan.... Sartaj Aziz says, Mazood Azhar is under preventive custody....... Now How would you explain sheltering him in Pakistan????? forget he being running a terror factory in the name of a madrassah (I came to know this from a thread opened by one of the most senior member here)..... I am sure you would remember how he reached Pakistan, or where was he before landing in Pakistan.......

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Pakistan army acts like a hired force
They are getting money for operations in Afghanistan , ( still back stabbing by hiding OBL at attobobad )

When a professional force act this way , can we expect any morality with militants ?
They ll do whatever for whoever who pays more..

Even Indian Army get hired by UN so don't give me that crap.... and get paid that's why you have $84 Million due money left

and about OBL there are many stories about it and how he died even CIA said on many occasions that he died like 2006 2008 etc etc so i don't want to comment on that

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Forget the phone number and let us assume that there is "0" evidence against anyone from pakistan.... Sartaj Aziz says, Mazood Azhar is under preventive custody....... Now How would you explain sheltering him in Pakistan????? forget he being running a terror factory in the name of a madrassah (I came to know this from a thread opened by one of the most senior member here)..... I am sure you would remember how he reached Pakistan, or where was he before landing in Pakistan.......

sorry I dont follow him. I dont care about him and I dont praise him like you praise BLA leadership.

Sartaz Aziz doesnt have a clue about his own medicines let alone phone calls. such claim of phone trace is laughable. this will be like inviting yourself for trouble.

I dont / cant explain sheltering him like you can explain sheltering Makti Bahami or hosting of that Baloch guy in India on state funds.

he and Hafiz saeed have support of the people regarding the Kashmir cause with or without the help of ISI. this Sartaj Aziz cant even explain the existence of the cleric in the heart of Islamabad bullying and challenging the state of Pakistan and you expect me to explain Azhar?

the thing is, we both are playing this game. maybe you can explain your national security advisor's speech saying he would pay BLA and TTP ten times the amount of money they need.

hence I said, the game will go on.

Pakistan army acts like a hired force
They are getting money for operations in Afghanistan , ( still back stabbing by hiding OBL at attobobad )

When a professional force act this way , can we expect any morality with militants ?
They ll do whatever for whoever who pays more..

you must be ill.
our army is operating only inside Pakistan as a part of WoT and since it pains you that we get paid for it so we dont mind although we will continue to do so without even US aid.. but its sweet how 8 F-16s hurt you so bad.. more badly than those who receive the laser guided bombs on their asses

 

[Maarkhoor]

@Irfan Baloch
Sir he is making such statements to please Indian on behest of N.S just like Lakhvi nothing going to happen. In Pakistani courts terrorist caught by our own forces red handily set free..how can they prove that a person sitting in Pakistan committed the crime in India....

 

[nair]

sorry I dont follow him. I dont care about him and I dont praise him like you praise BLA leadership.

Ok fair enough.....Let me tell you more about him (if you are not aware) He was arrested by India and under trail/convicted on terror activities in kashmir, and he was eventually released on exchange of kandhahar highjack passengers.....
and for me praising BLA leadership.....Show me one post in which i praised BLA leadership, if you could i will quit this forum next moment........

Sartaz Aziz doesnt have a clue about his own medicines let alone phone calls. such claim of phone trace is laughable. this will be like inviting yourself for trouble.

I dono how to respond to this I thought he is part of the government who is in power and access to infomation...... Disowning him is the easy way, (you may be right here)

I dont / cant explain sheltering him like you can explain sheltering Makti Bahami or hosting of that Baloch guy in India on state funds.

Is there any proof (of Pakistani standards, means the standards you expect from Indians on the proofs of attacks in India) on this, If you have then i would condemn it....

he and Hafiz saeed have support of the people regarding the Kashmir cause with or without the help of ISI. this Sartaj Aziz cant even explain the existence of the cleric in the heart of Islamabad bullying and challenging the state of Pakistan and you expect me to explain Azhar?

To be honest i have no clue on the ability or credibility of Sartaj Aziz, For an outsider he is part of the govt and if he is part of the govt and holds such a high portfolio, he should be credible enough..... If not he should be sacked the next minute....

he thing is, we both are playing this game. maybe you can explain your national security advisor's speech saying he would pay BLA and TTP ten times the amount of money they need.

I am not one who believe that we are saints, We also play the game to protect our national interest..... Having said that, i guess you are referring to the speech made by doval..... When he made that speech he was not NSA, and i doubt he had any clue of he becoming an NSA...... and if he clearly listen and comprehend what he said, he said we are not doing what we should be doing........

hence I said, the game will go on.

Unfortunately you are right........ The game will go on.......

 

[Sinnerman108]

What does the good General think about people which were playing pro-Pakistani songs during the gun battle ?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Irfan Baloch
Sir he is making such statements to please Indian on behest of N.S just like Lakhvi nothing going to happen. In Pakistani courts terrorist caught by our own forces red handily set free..how can they prove that a person sitting in Pakistan committed the crime in India....

on one hand the Indians want us to accept the phone trace as irrefutable truth (although modern telecom tech can fake it anywhere in the world .)
but they insist on dismissing the warnings and boastings by their people in power to teach us in kind and fund the BLA and TTP

 

[911]

yeh siyappa tum log pachaas saal se kar rahe ho. Kaan pak gaye sun sun ke. Kuch naya bol.

Bro i believe its time Kashmiris are given their right to plebiscite, as promised by Nehru. Killings of Kashmiris by Indian Army must stop. India is a liberal and mature democracy. Us being liberals must support the cause of Kashmiris. It was the dream of #AfzalGuru. #AfzalGuruTereQatilAbhiZindaHai #ShameOnIndianArmy #LiberalSwag bro.

 

[dray]

Iss hindu ko iss ki aukaat bhool gai hai, bloody dhimmi.

Bl**dy general forgot that we ruled his ancestors for like 1000 years!

Wrong answer! You got ruled first by the foreign invaders from western Asia.

 

[911]

Iss hindu ko iss ki aukaat bhool gai hai, bloody dhimmi.

Bl**dy general forgot that we ruled his ancestors for like 1000 years!

Wish Indians can resiprocate but being liberals we can't .

 

[Maarkhoor]

on one hand the Indians want us to accept the phone trace as irrefutable truth (although modern telecom tech can fake it anywhere in the world .)
but they insist on dismissing the warnings and boastings by their people in power to teach us in kind and fund the BLA and TTP

This is a sad part from their end, senior officials like Parikar and Doval quite often bullying Pakistan by announcing to use proxies or terror and i believe our forces are quite capable to counter these pompous and bully claims.
I want to share a thought with you, i believe if India ask to hand over Masood Azhar on the basis of air plane hijack and his conviction in India then we should hand over him to India because he was arrested and trailed in Indian courts and release on a exchange of passengers. Also i am quite surprised to know at that time why India does't make this demand and why we allow a convicted militant to roam free in Pakistan.

 

[Levina]

Gen.Katoch, you're being impatient.
As they say "there's always a storm before a rainbow".

Had India followed a more proactive forward intelligence strategy then surely India would have become a regional bully. But would that have served the purpose??
Had India followed a more outward policy(instead of inward) then we would have wasted our money on the wrong people- our enemies. Today India is well known in the field of science and exploration- goes on to prove our governments were investing money in the right direction.
Had India not followed the strategy which it believed in, then we might not have become the soft power that we are today. India has become unstoppable.
India was always known for its wealth, and it was constantly under attack throughout its history.
let's not forget "people throw stones at trees which bear fruits".
So expect more such attacks in the future, let it not demoralise and distract us from achieving our higher goal.
Pakistan was NEVER our goal!!!

 

[HariPrasad]

Proxy war: Get over with diplomacy, take war to Pakistani soil or else the Last Posts will just play on
Feb 22, 2016 20:36 IST

#26/11 Mumbai attack #Azhar Masood #Hafiz Saeed #India #InMyOpinion #Last Post #Operation Parakram #Operation Zarb-e-Azb #Pakistan #Pampore encounter #Pathankot terror attack #Terrorism

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  Army jawans paying tribute to to Captain Tushar Mahajan who lost his life in a gun-battle with the militants in Pampore, in Udhampur on Monday. PTI
  
  But first let us examine the above, even as the encounter continues. As per reports only one terrorist has been gunned down till now and perhaps another three-four are holed up inside the double storey house being shown on the TV obviously with plenty ammunition and food. Whether there are other civilians in that house is not known but perhaps that may be the reason why heavy weapons have not been used till now. But the bottom-line is that Pakistan sends across jaundiced terrorists who perhaps are addicted to narcotics and have wreaked AIDS on the women in J&K. The Valley in particular over the years has seen rise in HIV/AIDS cases even as the state government hides the figures. These terrorists are extracting lives of our security forces including young officers. It is a very cheap option for Pakistan to keep our security heavily tied down. Next comes the media blitz of sudden found nationalism during such occurrences -- saluting the martyrs, photographs with full description, live coverage of last rites and all. All this is very fine but look at the other side of the coin. What is the status of such coverage for martyrs elsewhere? Has the US or Nato done such publicity for their personnel killed in say Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes, numbers are released at later date and perhaps list of names much later. Has the Pakistani media ever given such coverage to their killed in action in Operation Zarb-e-Azb even though their officers hardly lead? The way our media handles such occurrences’ is obvious motivation to terrorists in Pakistan with jaundiced mullahs like Hafiz Saeed and Azhar Masood laughing all the way home, not that the Pakistani military-ISI would not be popping champagne.
  
  What have we really done suffering Pakistan’s proxy war for the past three and a half decades? Late MK Dhar, former Joint Director IB wrote in his book ‘Open Secrets – India’s intelligence unveiled’ published 10 years ago in 2005, “I continued to advocate for an aggressive and proactive counter and forward intelligence thrust against Pakistan. My voice was rarely heard and mostly ignored. The Pakistani establishment is a geopolitical bully. The best response to blunt such a bully is to take the war inside his home. India has allowed itself to be blackmailed by Pakistan even before it went nuclear. The sabre rattling of “coercive diplomacy”, which is nothing but sterile military power, cannot convince the Islamist Pakistani Establishment that India can take the border skirmishes inside their homes and hit at the very roots of the jaundiced Islamist groups.” We have failed to establish credible deterrence against Pakistan’s proxy war, refusing to acknowledge that irregular forces have emerged with greater strategic value over conventional and even nuclear forces, as can be seen from examining conflict situations over the past decade.

Even Operation Parakram should have taught us that conventional forces are no match to irregular threats. But we still continue to rely on diplomacy which is useless without being backed by unconventional muscle. While we have been mostly relying on idealism, we have compounded it with an inward looking policy. The costs of always following an inward looking policy are much higher, as India should have realised years back. The most effective policy for India or for that matter any country, should be one that balances both realism and idealism, which in effect, makes the idealism realistic. But we need to also weigh in other issues why we are continuing with such intransigence? Ask the public and you would be surprised to know how many are of the view that they think if the terrorists would have actually entered the Parliament during attack in December 2001, our response to Pakistan’s proxy war would have been far more cohesive and effective. The fact is that you can hardly find a politician or bureaucrat's ward in the security forces. So casualties are just numbers that don’t matter, not that some politicians have also had the gumption to say that after all security forces personnel are meant to die. The second issue is the cross-border links of the terrorists and mafia which includes politician; money laundering through hawala, narcotics trade and diversion of funds to terrorist organisations, as reported by NIA from time to time, and hinted by veteran R&AW officers.

If we think that Pakistan will have a change of heart, we cannot be more foolhardy. Filing of FIR against unknown persons in the terrorist attack on Pathankot IAF air base and removing personal security of the prosecutor in the trill underway in Pakistan for the 26/11 Mumbai terrorist attack, with the previous prosecutor gunned down are latest indicators. But the fact is that Pakistan will up the ante of proxy war with the US and China firmly in support of the Pakistani military. It is time that our government despite the approaching elections in various states and modernising-cum-development schemes, seriously get down to build the sub-conventional muscle. We urgently need to establish effective deterrence to combat Pakistan’s proxy war, which may need to be exercised from time to time in order to demonstrate its credibility. If we fail to take such action even now, then the Last Posts and the show will simply go on as hithertofore.


Proxy war: Get over with diplomacy, take war to Pakistani soil or else the Last Posts will just play on - Firstpost

When BJP came to power, We had much more expectations from them. While they gave befitting reply on firing on border and taught our enemy a lesson, they are a failure in covert war front. . They will set the things right and understand that diplomacy is not the answer to state sponsor terror. It must be dealt in same manner. We have much more resources to counter that.