Proud LAHORI at home in BOMBAY

[Awesome]

Going by your logic.... Indian Army has all the right to kill the separatists.....so there would be no so called human rights abuse claim from Pakistan Side if the so called Separatists Get Killed ....

From Pakistan's side, there would be protests since Indian existence in Kashmir is an illegal act. Also thats how things are today and Pakistan would continue to support the separatist movement.

 

[k_n]

Excuse me once again, no where have I condoned the killing of Indian citizens - by assumption Indian civilians.

Indian army is a combatant directly violating Pakistani demands of Kashmiri liberation. It is OKAY to kill people in conflict with Pakistani demands.

Are you trying to imply that , given the popular indian public opinion of engaging Pakistan in a millitary conflict after 'Mumbai Drama' 26/11
, India would be completely justified in carrying out a millitary operation against PA and training facilities of Kashmiri millitant groups and Pakistan based Let and JeM if another strike of the scale of Mumbai is carried out ??

We're ready for the debate of the right and wrongs as well, in fact also prefer it. But all venues are kept on the table. From our point of view Pakistan reserves the right to liberate Kashmir.

Why is the Pakistani psyche hell bent on supporting KASHMIRI 'LIBERATION' ??

When your vengeance expands from combatants to non-combatants thats where the problem emerges and you're calling for an all out war. If you have any issues combat the PA in Kashmir, your vengeance expands to aiding suicide bombers of FATA who blow up schools of children, that's not legitimate.

Sorry , but you have absolutely no legitimate proof that supports your CLAIM .
In case of Indo-Pak conflict , TTP would either fight shoulder to shoulder with PA by engaging IA in low intensity conflict in urban centres occupied by the IA ( something of the sort British n US Army had to face in Basra , Fallujah .. ) OR it will further weaken the the PA's effort against India in east by causing turmoil in west .
I dont know what you believe in but TTP had already declared its allegiance .
Historically , Indian support has been limited to non-Pashtun elements amongst the remanants of Afghan mujahideen of the Soviet Occupation era . TTP cadre is 100% Pashtun and Sunni .
They have a traditional conflict with the Shia Tribes and others in FATA and this rivalry is what PA and the Americans are trying to exploit to their advantage in order to halt the spread of TTP and Taliban , respectively , influence in the region .

 

[blueoval79]

From Pakistan's side, there would be protests since Indian existence in Kashmir is an illegal act. Also thats how things are today and Pakistan would continue to support the separatist movement.

And protest is what Pakistan can continue to do....for ever.

 

[Awesome]

Are you trying to imply that , given the popular indian public opinion of engaging Pakistan in a millitary conflict after 'Mumbai Drama' 26/11
, India would be completely justified in carrying out a millitary operation against PA and training facilities of Kashmiri millitant groups and Pakistan based Let and JeM if another strike of the scale of Mumbai is carried out ??

You're already doing it, or at least trying to.

Why is the Pakistani psyche hell bent on supporting KASHMIRI 'LIBERATION' ??

Beyond the scope of this thread.

Sorry , but you have absolutely no legitimate proof that supports your CLAIM .

Its also beyond the scope of this thread, however what should concern you is that we are totally convinced of it and will make policy decisions based upon that determination.

 

[Awesome]

And protest is what Pakistan can continue to do....for ever.

Sure but we're talking about legitimacy of granting visas and of Pakistanis visiting India.

 

[blueoval79]

Sure but we're talking about legitimacy of granting visas and of Pakistanis visiting India.

I think the procedure is clearly stated....any Visa to Pakistani would be subject to consideration of Ministry of Defense of Government of India .....

By the way I want to ask....Most Pakistanis hate India ...well this is the perception that I have got from people on this forum...and elsewhere.
They don't want any Business Ties with India ....they don't want cultural ties with India ... in-fact they don't want to spit on India as claimed by some here....so why come to India .....and get into trouble.

Now the only reason left t come to India is ....Family....and religion....

But according to Pakistanis....and especially Muslim Pakistanis...India is a unislamic country.... so anything here becomes unislamic...so there should be no need to visit India for religion.


As for family ties...I guess the generation that got split by partition is gone...and the second generation Pakistani does not want to be linked to India in any way....and I am sure I have seen enough people on the forum practically killing the other person for saying that Pakistan was once a part of Mainland India.....



So the question remains...why come to India ......when you hate India....and you believe that India can not give anything good to Pakistanis......

PS: all comments and judgments made are based upon interactions from the online forums. ...like PDF....

 

[k_n]

You're already doing it, or at least trying to.

Sorry , but i'm not interested in treating a DEFENCE FORUM as a networking site's community/group forum which many of the senior members here have been doing .

Coming back to your statement , iv just replied to your claim that millitancy in kashmir is justified ( perception of an average pakistani )
owing to the popular opinion amongst PAKISTANIS against indian millitary presence in kashmir and kashmir's succession to India .

I being an indian dont agree with this 'POPULAR' view shared by pakistanis .

Similalrly , whether your personal opinion ( that is in resonance with the 'POPULAR' pakistani view on kashmiri millitancy ) implies to the statement that i wrote or not , you are expected to accept the popular view shared by the Indians that millitary option SHOULD BE EXERCISED against pakistan , in case of another mis-adventure like Mumbai .

 

[tridev]

From Pakistan's side, there would be protests since Indian existence in Kashmir is an illegal act. Also thats how things are today and Pakistan would continue to support the separatist movement.[/QUO



There are many things that you maynot know. One of them is that we Indians have had so many internal strifes since independence that we have adopted and adapted to finding a unique innovative solution to it. We had so called uprising in west bengal, then Madhya pradesh then punjab then south India and now naxals and maoists. Kashmir remains high too. But we have always come on top after a long struggle. We do it by doing a lot of things which are possible only in a democracy. we suffer but we persevere and finally succeed. In Kashmir too we are doing a lot of stuff including developing new infrastructure, economic packages, tourism and ofcourse use force whereever required. We actually don't give a damn about what others say....we have a goal and we will achieve it....terrorists or no terrorists....freedom fighters or no freedom fighters...pakistan or no pakistan.....we will keep kashmir and bring it back to its past glory......simple....we don't give a damn...let others try what they have to...we are very clear on our objectives...we have the men, money and metal

 

[Awesome]

I think the procedure is clearly stated....any Visa to Pakistani would be subject to consideration of Ministry of Defense of Government of India .....

By the way I want to ask....Most Pakistanis hate India ...well this is the perception that I have got from people on this forum...and elsewhere.
They don't want any Business Ties with India ....they don't want cultural ties with India ... in-fact they don't want to spit on India as claimed by some here....so why come to India .....and get into trouble.

Now the only reason left t come to India is ....Family....and religion....

But according to Pakistanis....and especially Muslim Pakistanis...India is a unislamic country.... so anything here becomes unislamic...so there should be no need to visit India for religion.


As for family ties...I guess the generation that got split by partition is gone...and the second generation Pakistani does not want to be linked to India in any way....and I am sure I have seen enough people on the forum practically killing the other person for saying that Pakistan was once a part of Mainland India.....



So the question remains...why come to India ......when you hate India....and you believe that India can not give anything good to Pakistanis......

PS: all comments and judgments made are based upon interactions from the online forums. ...like PDF....

Pakistanis have bilateral issues with India, the biggest one being Kashmir and then issues of Indian sponsored terrorism in FATA and then water issues.

Some people may hate you for that, which is wrong - as in not the sensible thing to do, the sensible thing is to engage you guys and get those issues resolved.

Everybody has their own interpretation of religion, Islamic or not. Everybody has their own reasons for visiting India. Your perspective is just too narrow and not all encompassing.

 

[Awesome]

Sorry , but i'm not interested in treating a DEFENCE FORUM as a networking site's community/group forum which many of the senior members here have been doing .

Coming back to your statement , iv just replied to your claim that millitancy in kashmir is justified ( perception of an average pakistani )
owing to the popular opinion amongst PAKISTANIS against indian millitary presence in kashmir and kashmir's succession to India .

I being an indian dont agree with this 'POPULAR' view shared by pakistanis .

Similalrly , whether your personal opinion ( that is in resonance with the 'POPULAR' pakistani view on kashmiri millitancy ) implies to the statement that i wrote or not , you are expected to accept the popular view shared by the Indians that millitary option SHOULD BE EXERCISED against pakistan , in case of another mis-adventure like Mumbai .

Each time you've threatened, Pakistan has said "Bring it on". You do what you have to do, and we'll do what we have to do. The question is only about Visas. If you think granting Visas means the dissolution of issues, then you're wrong. Resolution of issues would only eliminate them.

 

[Always Neutral]

^^^ A question for Mr proud Lahori: are you willing to publicly denounce terrorists like Hafiz Saeed as despicable vermin?

If not, why should you not be put on the first flight back.

So next time you go to Sweden please sign

I support gay marriages, gay adoption etc.

Next Time you go to USA please sign

I support Iraq war etc.

I think personal beliefs should be left out of such debates otherwise half the Indians will never be able to travel overseas!

Regards

 

[praveen]

Why the hell should GOI issue visas in the first place.There is every probability that the visitor can be a closet jehadhi ?David Coleman Headley alias Daood Gilani
,Tawahur Hussain Rana all these were are tourist entities .Then we had a 26\11

 

[PeacefulIndian]

Why the hell should GOI issue visas in the first place.There is every probability that the visitor can be a closet jehadhi ?David Coleman Headley alias Daood Gilani
,Tawahur Hussain Rana all these were are tourist entities .Then we had a 26\11

Not issuing a visa at all may not be a solution. But everyone born in Pakistan post 1947 should be made to undergo a comprehensive background check, irrespective of the passport they carry. E.g. David Headley. Even though this entails delay in visa processing, that should be deemed acceptable. And such personnel should undergo extra security checking at all airports & ports of entry. If there is even an iota of ambiguity in their background or intent to visit India, visa should be refused.

 

[Awesome]

Why the hell should GOI issue visas in the first place.There is every probability that the visitor can be a closet jehadhi ?David Coleman Headley alias Daood Gilani
,Tawahur Hussain Rana all these were are tourist entities .Then we had a 26\11

Thats why you do you due diligence before issuing them or don't its completely up to you. Your internal matter.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Many Pakistanis have their own reasons for wanting to enter India. Examples are family or social ties, touring, business, scouting busy areas to plant bombs etc. The sole consideration for refusing a visa usually is whether the person poses a risk to the security of India and/or whether the person has a criminal record. Now if Pakistanis had to declare on an application that they do not support terrorism then that would be rather shortsighted. At least 60% of the Applicants would be lying under oath. The Indian security establishment is being paid a huge amount to safeguard our nation. They must earn their keep.

As for Kashmir, Asim is quite correct when he says that Indian soldiers are a fair target to Pakistani soldiers if there is engagement. In fact I have often stated that Pakistan should engage India in Kashmir if they feel so strongly about Kashmir and that the loser should accept the outcome and let the matter lie there. What confuses me however is Pakistan's failure to engage India in a conventional out and out war with complete conquer of the so called disputed territory thus far. The strategy of sending in morons to terrorise the local populace and to take pot shots at our soldiers is clearly not working out. All it is doing is lending justification to military raids and presence in Kashmir. Find a grave with a few hundred bodies in it and we say that they are terrorist scum who didnt deserve a decent burial whilst you wail that they are innocent civilians who were mutilated and raped etc by our soldiers. If there are excesses on the part of our military in Kashmir, you actually lend justification to it with your policy. Put simply, if Pakistan and Pakistanis feels so strongly on the issue of Kashmir then cut out the bs about some UN resolution passed during the time of our great garndfathers and demand from your government that they declare war on India and send in the Pakistani army (in full uniform offcourse) to engage the Indian army in Kashmir. May the best man thereafter win