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Proud LAHORI at home in BOMBAY

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What you're trying to talk me out of blowing up your dams? Let us worry about that, but if you turn the taps off, you know you're heading into nuclear war...
So when u can't argue go down this way...
Blackmail by a nation followed by blackmail by its citizens....

And you sound like a tyrant, too upset that the people of Pakistan are continuously pushing for the Liberation of Kashmir.
trying for over six decades without any success;in the meanwhile losing out Bangladesh and up to 10% of held kashmir to china...
with future chances of baluchistan going down the drains..
good going...Indians do we need to get upset??

Killing Indian soldiers occupying Kashmir is not a terrorist activity. It may be an act of war, but we're already at war. Since 1948.
Similarly killing pakistani personnel whether in peshawar or lahore; supporting, funding ,training, participating in acts of terrorism is like fighting a war.... and we need to support it atleast morally...
 
Yes. One can't blow people up in the morning and expect to drink tea with their relatives in the evening.

You say the right things but you are in denial. Pakistan has an institutionalized policy of promoting extremism in schools and using non-state actors as strategic assets.


Some charity ... their conventions are full of deranged people screaming about Ghazwa and rivers of blood and brandishing all kinds of weapons. This is another example of your being in denial.

Solid evidence? The evidence is under you nose, if you want to see it. Some Pakistanis think that it is correct to continue lying until their lies have been exposed. That is how your government behaved in the case of Ajmal Kasab.


I do not expect Pakistani institutions to punish their own assets. It has never happened in the 62 years of your history. But I would be happy to be surprised on this.


As regards Kashmir, the only way forward is this: Ask your paid employees (Hurriyat conference) to contest elections and prove their legitimacy. Don't worry, we do not debar them like you debar the JKLF. If a legitimately elected government of J&K asks for a change in the constitutional status of J&K, I'm sure the GoI can discuss it with them.



I certainly do not paint everybody with the same colour, although there are some profiles that can be classified as high-risk. Despite being in denial, you are one of the saner voices.

First of all i do not see any Pakistani here advocating to blow up Indians, this is something you are also in denial about...you deny the fact that Pakistanis are normal human beings who will also want to have peace and have shown this side of them in the past.
Try to recall when your cricket team visited Pakistan and how warmly they were hosted by the Pakistani public, no party managed to jeapordize the tour and overwhelming public response was there to see.
Certainly there is no malice other than friction over few genuine outstanding issues which are real.

Pakistani schools are not breeding hatred, the madrassahs are a bit complicated case though majority of them do not spread intolerance.
Many madrassahs however were used to help the Afghan resistance during Soviet occupation and have been derailed.
This intolerance and extremism of some groups is a fallout of the Afghan war and is something we are suffering from as well, by context of same argument then it appears that we are using non state actors to target ourselves?
We have solid evidence that all the extremist parties including LET are targeting Pakistan so it should be clear that there is no love lost between the State and the extremists.

Regarding Ajmal Kasab, the GOP did what it should have done...it could not comment without evidence sharing and once it was done it duly admitted.
It is not like India and Pakistan are best friends and allies so that the channels are open 24/7 and counterparts exchange information within a well oiled framework.
Thanks to our mutual mistrust there are a lot of barriers and one can never be too careful and that is what GOP did, nowhere did it deny or accept anything contrary to what the evidence suggested.

There will always be people who advocate war, but you only see them in Pakistan and not in your country so who is in denial?
There are loads of extremists in India too, are you in denial about them?
How come they still exist in various parts of your country?

If you think that Kashmiris are being paid by Pakistan and that is the sole motivation for them then that is something i cannot digest.
There are thousands upon thousands of Kashmiris who come out and protest against the Indian government in the Indian occupied Kashmir on quite a number of days.
It would be a case of denial if you call the hundreds and thousands of people as being on the payroll of Pakistan.
Are they getting kicks out of these protests and agitations which in turn caused many of them to get arrested, beaten, killed etc.
It would be a case of denial if the atrocities by Indian troops also miss your radar entirely.

I am 100% against terrorist tactics and do realize that terrorists indeed breed on conflicts but to brand all Kashmiri freedom fighters as terrorists is not right, from day 1 many Kashmiris felt they were occuppied and that is not something that can be denied.
Even Nehru promised them many things which did not materialize so it is not like it is simply a case of few people raising guns and orcehstrating massacres at a whim, this thing built up for nearly half a century, it is a bit more complicated and should be acknowledged as such.
The advent of groups with terror tactics does not mean that entire Kashmiri freedom fighter cadre is terrorist.
However this conflict should draw us to the talking tables because such things are bound to cause suffering, but if there are no talks and we practically need to ensure the good behaviour of all forces in the region to even start the talks, it is akin to ensuring that talks do not happen and only the extremist point of view is projected.

I firmly believe it is best that this issue be resolved peacefully and breeding ground for hatred should be denied, in order to do that normalization is needed but what you have been going on and on about here is not normalization, you want Pakistanis to take an oath of their love for India...regardless of the impracticality of this demand i cannot help but think that you consider Pakistanis as the bad guys...sorry my friend but that is not acceptable to me as a valid thing to say.

What you perceive as our state assets are being daily arrested or killed by Pakistan Army and still you are waiting to be surprised?
Or is it that you shall always be waiting like this just to stall any meaningful talks?

Regarding states using civil unrest in their enemy states to their advantage...you recall anything done by India in 1970s which is similar and actually resulted in something quite dramatic?

The fact is that despite all things said and done there has been a remarkable decrease in the cross border violence since previous Pakistan government started a crack down on extremism, however that has not improved the relationship between India and Pakistan and that is not encouraging at all.

I have no desire to have tea with you anytime soon or to visit India anytime soon, i was once like you who wanted nothing better than complete isolation between our countries.
I even boycotted all Indian products etc. because i am not a hypocrite; so seeing Kashmiris suffer i thought like this and acted such as such. Still i never did personally hate anyone and whenever i interacted with Indians abroad i was civil and courteous.
With the passage of time i realized that we cannot let hate or anger consume us and mar our decisions, if we do not talk we will never resolve the issues.
I always try to be civil to my Indian friends despite the obvious reasons that our countries have been at each others throats and we have a very troubled history full of mutual hate, that is what i can do to build bridges so i do it, meaningless though it may seem.
If we let conflict breed further further conflict and let the terrorist hold our talks ransom, it will not solve anything or will it?

Talks do not guarantee that our relationship will be peachy but they are the only way to improve the relationship and for that egos need to be checked and the goodness of human heart has to be banked upon rather than to shift focus on the extremists which exists on both sides of the border...they only thrive because we fail to engage in meaningful dialogue.

I think the guy who wrote the article did it out of this goodness of human heart...to me it proves that on both sides there are people who want to bury the hatchet...you being on this forum should have seen the intent of many here to do the same and should have seen the positive side, the fact that you did the opposite makes me wonder just how much more time it will take for people to realize that there will be no winners here if we do not improve the relationship.

I want a better future for our countries, one which is not full of conflict, if that is perceived as a sign of weakness or desperation then that does not bode well for all of us.
 
But Combatant Indians.
Indian citizens nevertheless.
You may try...
The usual bravado.
What you're trying to talk me out of blowing up your dams? Let us worry about that, but if you turn the taps off, you know you're heading into nuclear war...
At this point a rational person would have realised the fallacy of his arguments. But not you.
And you sound like a tyrant, too upset that the people of Pakistan are continuously pushing for the Liberation of Kashmir.
I am not upset. However when Pakistan, with a history of East Pakistan and now Baluchistan, talks of ‘liberation’, I am amused.

Also the ease with which you, the supposedly educated elite, can justify acts of terror, also demonstrates why the world at large calls Pakistan the ‘epicenter’ of terrorism, or better still, a ‘migraine’.
You have already convinced yourself of that, we're open to dialogue, if there's not going to be a dialog then there'd be other things. You're just throwing a tantrum.
So I called your bluff correctly. Didn’t I? All that talk of ‘ready for the debate’ was just you trying to sound civil and smart. All talk, no substance.
Killing Indian soldiers occupying Kashmir is not a terrorist activity. It may be an act of war, but we're already at war. Since 1948.
You are dissembling. But that is expected when one runs out of arguments.
Anyway... So do I get a visa?
Sure. As long as your support maintains this abstract existence, I see no problem.
 
So when u can't argue go down this way...
Blackmail by a nation followed by blackmail by its citizens....
If you turn the water off, you'll kill us. We should try to kill first. Its self-defence.


trying for over six decades without any success;in the meanwhile losing out Bangladesh and up to 10% of held kashmir to china...
with future chances of baluchistan going down the drains..
good going...Indians do we need to get upset??
Then why are you getting upset? A guy living in Mumbai said he's a Proud Pakistani Lahori and that was enough to throw the warmongering Indians go spinning around.

Similarly killing pakistani personnel whether in peshawar or lahore; supporting, funding ,training, participating in acts of terrorism is like fighting a war.... and we need to support it atleast morally...
No its not. That's terrorism.
 
Indian citizens nevertheless.

The usual bravado.
As opposed to the usual whine fest from the Indians here?

At this point a rational person would have realised the fallacy of his arguments. But not you.
We're gonna blow up those dams, muahahhahahah.

I am not upset. However when Pakistan, with a history of East Pakistan and now Baluchistan, talks of ‘liberation’, I am amused
When compared to a statistic of one genocide per decade, I still reserve the right to talk about Liberation.

Also the ease with which you, the supposedly educated elite, can justify acts of terror, also demonstrates why the world at large calls Pakistan the ‘epicenter’ of terrorism, or better still, a ‘migraine’.
Killing Indian soldiers committing terrorism in Kashmir is not terrorism.

So I called your bluff correctly. Didn’t I? All that talk of ‘ready for the debate’ was just you trying to sound civil and smart. All talk, no substance.
Or its logical. You're not somebody who can dictate terms to us. Either you talk, or you leave it up to us to decide what to do about you guys.

You are dissembling. But that is expected when one runs out of arguments.
You're whining, not arguing. Everything has been said in plain black and white. However I don't know if your intellect was able to process any of it.

Sure. As long as your support maintains this abstract existence, I see no problem.
I've explicitly stated that my support is only moral as should be for all Pakistani non-combatants.

The rest is up to you, I'm not dying to get your visa.
 
^^ It is unfortunate when an Administrator resorts to trolling that revolves around 'I said so, therefore it must be so' type verbal vomit. I don't see anything in your post that even comes close to resembling even a hint of counter argument. All I see is evasion. Then again, what was I expecting.

But before I end, just a reminder. 'One genocide per decade' would still take a few hundred years, probably a thousand, to match the scale of your genocide which you had perpetrated in a matter of months. Hardly a feat to boast about.
 
^^ It is unfortunate when an Administrator resorts to trolling that revolves around 'I said so, therefore it must be so' type verbal vomit. I don't see anything in your post that even comes close to resembling even a hint of counter argument. All I see is evasion. Then again, what was I expecting.

But before I end, just a reminder. 'One genocide per decade' would still take a few hundred years, probably a thousand, to match the scale of your genocide which you had perpetrated in a matter of months. Hardly a feat to boast about.
You're whining, begging and pleading with me for nothing. I can't help you. You need to correct the wrongs your country is committing. Our position is not anything new. Its been publicly states, its been practiced for 60 years, its something we're actively striving for. But its limited to combatants.
 
Asim supports murder of Indian soldiers by "Kashmiri separatists". For Pakistanis that term includes non-Kashmiri speaking infiltrators from Pakistan occupied Kashmir. It is probably flexible enough to include deranged individuals from Punjab as well.

Anybody who advocates the murder of Indian servicemen, anywhere, regardless of the circumstances, ought not be welcomed.

That is the least Indians can do to honour the widows and orphans of those who have sacrificed their lives.
Correction, It's not murder its a casualty of war. A war India initiated by the illegal occupation of Kashmir.

For Pakistanis that term includes non-Kashmiri speaking infiltrators from Pakistan occupied Kashmir
You have just cooked that out of your bum, and its not really true. For Pakistanis its all Kashmiris, holding valid Kashmiri credentials (ID cards, land ownership, etc.).

Anybody who advocates the murder of Indian servicemen, anywhere, regardless of the circumstances, ought not be welcomed.
Correction, I did not advocate the murder of Indian servicemen. I called it necessary as an act of self-defence or in combat. If the Indian servicemen walk away from Kashmir, I hope they live to a ripe old age.

That is the least Indians can do to honour the widows and orphans of those who have sacrificed their lives.
Your LEAST equals to the Pakistani visitor declaring that he or she foregos their claim on Kashmir. Which is impractical and a non-starter.
 
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