SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[ChineseTiger1986]

I still don't believe u can make a 180 kn engine with meaningful t/w
Russians made al-41 20 years back but had lot of weight.

p and w f-135 has 190-200 kn and it was made only few years back so china cannot take such a leap so fast.
It will take 10 years imho.

140 KN is possible as u had al-31 and f-100 as template while 155-180 kn would be new designs and hence require extensive testing

Right now the basic model of WS-10 is 135kN, so 155kN is just an improvement.

While the 180kN WS-15 will be completely new successor generation of the WS-10 engine.

The AL-31F is 125kN, so 117 has 145kN. And don't get me wrong, 117 is not completely a new generation, but a AL-31F on steroid.

Right now, the only rival of the F119 will be the S-15, not anything else.

 

[he-man]

The WS-10 engine has reached 1000 hours overhaul since 2005.

Over 40 days of non-stop ground testing, so 40*24=960 hours, so it is about 1000 hours.

In a total lifespan of a engine, you need to overhaul it twice (3 x 1000 = 3000) before it is completely scrapped.

Here is the Chinese document about the WS-10 engine.

Its all good and dandy.
Even kaveri is not a failure per se as it produces 50/80 kn in dry/wet mode.

But till engine characteristics are known,,we just cannot comment.
But i agree its a matter of 10-15 years for china to overtake russia in this.................india is further 10 years away at least

 

[he-man]

Right now the basic model of WS-10 is 135kN, so 155kN is just an improvement.

While the 180kN WS-15 will be completely new successor generation of the WS-10 engine.

The AL-31F is 125kN, so 117 has 145kN. And don't get me wrong, 117 is not completely a new generation, but a AL-31F on steroid.

Right now, the only rival of the F119 will be the S-15, not anything else.

Wrong

al-31f has many derivatives

Basic one is 123 kn(has no fadec)
117s is 142 kn(fadec+)
117 is >142 kn but unspecified.(further modification,flying in pakfa)

idz 30 or type 30----------180 kn vce for pakfa intended.(completely new,maybe inspired from al-41)

So the rival to f-119 is 117s in su-35.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Its all good and dandy.
Even kaveri is not a failure per se as it produces 50/80 kn in dry/wet mode.

But till engine characteristics are known,,we just cannot comment.
But i agree its a matter of 10-15 years for china to overtake russia in this.................india is further 10 years away at least

We will completely overtake Russia in the aircraft engine domain once the WS-15 is installed on the next prototype of J-20.

But still, Russia possesses more variety of jet engines compared to us. That's why J-20 uses the more powerful domestic engine WS-10G, while J-31 still uses the smaller RD-93.

USSR should have came up with the true 180kN AL-41 if it didn't follow a dissolution.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Wrong

al-31f has many derivatives

Basic one is 123 kn(has no fadec)
117s is 142 kn(fadec+)
117 is >142 kn but unspecified.(further modification,flying in pakfa)

idz 30 or type 30----------180 kn vce for pakfa intended.(completely new,maybe inspired from al-41)

So the rival to f-119 is 117s in su-35.

The Su-35 engine is not comparable to the F119.

Only the scrapped version of AL-41 will be a true superior rival of the F119.

@SvenSvensonov

 

[he-man]

We will completely overtake Russia in the aircraft engine domain once the WS-15 is installed on the next prototype of J-20.

But still, Russia possesses more variety of jet engines compared to us. That's why J-20 uses the more powerful domestic engine WS-10G, while J-31 still uses the smaller RD-93.

USSR should have came up with the true 180kN AL-41 if it didn't follow a dissolution.

I don't agree.............u need at least 10 years.
And hey did make al-41,,just had no money to modify it/mass produce it.

Btw is j-31 eligible for export to india??

 

[he-man]

The Su-35 engine is not comparable to the F119.

Only the scrapped version of AL-41 will be a true superior rival of the F119.

@SvenSvensonov

I never said in all specs.
But in thrust at least

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I don't agree.............u need at least 10 years.
And hey did make al-41,,just had no money to modify it/mass produce it.

Btw is j-31 eligible for export to india??

I mean the next gen aircraft engine.

117S is not next gen like F119, not sure about 117, but if it is still another improvement based on 117S, then it won't be the next gen either.

If China has put WS-15 on the J-20 earlier than Russia has with her true next gen on the PAK FA, then sorry, we are leaping ahead.

 

[he-man]

I mean the next gen aircraft engine.

117S is not next gen like F119, not sure about 117, but if it is still another improvement based on 117S, then it won't be the next gen either.

If China has put WS-15 on the J-20 earlier than Russia has with her true next gen on the PAK FA, then sorry, we are leaping ahead.

U won't have it dude,,its just not believeble.
U cannot make 4-5 categories of engines simultaneously,,not even usa can do that

Patience

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I never said in all specs.
But in thrust at least

F119 is 170kN, while 117S is 142kN.

 

[AgentOrange]

IMO, I don't see why Pakistan *wouldn't* end up with the J-31. In its current iteration, the J-31 runs on 2 RD-93s which also power the JF-17. There's no political barrier for the J-31 being sold to Pakistan and maybe a tech transfer (maybe).

 

[he-man]

F119 is 170kN, while 117S is 142kN.

f-119 is 150 kn class(156)
f-135 is 180-200 kn class

 

[he-man]

IMO, I don't see why Pakistan *wouldn't* end up with the J-31. In its current iteration, the J-31 runs on 2 RD-93s which also power the JF-17. There's no political barrier for the J-31 being sold to Pakistan and maybe a tech transfer (maybe).

Pakistan has no money to get it in the first place.
Plus we will get rafale,,so who cares really

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

U won't have it dude,,its just not believeble.
U cannot make 4-5 categories of engines simultaneously,,not even usa can do that

Patience

It is not believable for India, but China is just in another category.

For example, your Kaveri engine has to pass its flight test in Russia?! What the heck is that? Why you need Russia to babysit you for everything?

Indigenous Kaveri Engine Clears Flight Tests in Russia

 

[UKBengali]

Pakistan has no money to get it in the first place.
Plus we will get rafale,,so who cares really

J-31 will have first-look, first-shot, first-kill advantage over Rafale.

There is no point comparing a 4.5-gen Rafale against a 5-gen J-31.