Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Armchair]

JF denotes Joint Fighter. I am hoping Project Azm will be PF-1 or P-1. P-1 has a nice ring to it.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Someone may or may not have seen project AZM design

I can say with 80% confidence that what I have seen is indeed AZM design. I've debated in my head about it and I have decided not to disclose anything about it. I will let some idiot do that when it becomes more widely known. I will only say this: It is a clean sheet design. Now whether Pakistan uses this design to get concessions on J-31/35 is anybody's guess.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Someone may or may not have seen project AZM design

I can say with 80% confidence that what I have seen is indeed AZM design. I've debated in my head about it and I have decided not to disclose anything about it. I will let some idiot do that when it becomes more widely known. I will only say this: It is a clean sheet design. Now whether Pakistan uses this design to get concessions on J-31/35 is anybody's guess.

single engine or twin engine?

 

[Chak Bamu]

single engine or twin engine?

Not saying a word. I will not utter a single word about it because I am a patriot, not an attention-seeking teenager. Even by merely saying as much as I did, I might have said too much. So, no details.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Not saying a word. I will not utter a single word about it because I am a patriot, not an attention-seeking teenager. Even by merely saying as much as I did, I might have said too much. So, no details.

I understand, best wishes to you.

 

[Mumm-Ra]

Someone may or may not have seen project AZM design

I can say with 80% confidence that what I have seen is indeed AZM design. I've debated in my head about it and I have decided not to disclose anything about it. I will let some idiot do that when it becomes more widely known. I will only say this: It is a clean sheet design. Now whether Pakistan uses this design to get concessions on J-31/35 is anybody's guess.

An admirable self goal. Just wish that we come up with a decent design and final end product

 

[nadeemkhan110]

Are we buying j-31 etc 5th Gen fighter or we will be waiting for 2030. Because India can surprise us with 5th gen jet by shopping. India is too scared of J-20 they can throw dollars to counter J-20.

 

[Armchair]

Not saying a word. I will not utter a single word about it because I am a patriot, not an attention-seeking teenager. Even by merely saying as much as I did, I might have said too much. So, no details.

Thank you for making my day. Had a stressful day and then reading this post just made it the best day ever. No need to say more, will harm national interest. I can already guess what it is from the single hint you gave, and if I can do that, so can someone else...

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) looks like it's a clean sheet design : )

 

[JamD]

Someone may or may not have seen project AZM design

I can say with 80% confidence that what I have seen is indeed AZM design. I've debated in my head about it and I have decided not to disclose anything about it. I will let some idiot do that when it becomes more widely known. I will only say this: It is a clean sheet design. Now whether Pakistan uses this design to get concessions on J-31/35 is anybody's guess.

Thank you for making my day. Had a stressful day and then reading this post just made it the best day ever. No need to say more, will harm national interest. I can already guess what it is from the single hint you gave, and if I can do that, so can someone else...

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) looks like it's a clean sheet design : )

My younger self would have been very excited but I guess time takes its toll on everyone.

Design is a low bar. Each batch of aerospace engineering student in Pakistan designs an aircraft during their bachelor's. Our class made 36. Every year this happens. The point is that design (especially conceptual design) is an academic exercise that costs very little to do. Furthermore, it is done to get several candidate designs. Finally, these designs are very "big picture", so it's just configuration, shape, engine placement, MTOW etc. It doesn't say anything about where the components will be sourced from, how the manufacturing will take place, how will the avionics be constructed, is the design viable from a control systems perspective. That is, this kind of design is a very "back of the envelope" kind of thing. It is so basic that 3rd year aerospace engineering students do it all the time. And yes, it's PAF professors teaching us all this so I have a pretty good idea of what they must have done (and all the things they definitely don't know) @Goenitz @M.AsfandYar.

Then we can see the missing expertise/infrastructure at PAC for some critical subsystems (like control systems), and I wouldn't hold my breath for PAC producing a "clean-sheet" FGFA prototype within 5 years. I would give this goal at least 15-20 years (even this is optimistic).

Like @Chak Bamu I do not want to share all the things I am privy to on an open forum, but the things I've come into contact with do not fill me with confidence.

Just my (realistic or pessimistic) two cents.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Not saying a word. I will not utter a single word about it because I am a patriot, not an attention-seeking teenager. Even by merely saying as much as I did, I might have said too much. So, no details.

Understood. But what you do know about proceedings, do they bode well in terms of Pakistan's development of project AZM?

 

[Akh1112]

Random dude on the internet:

I saw azm it is a clean sheet design.

Seems to be very credible. Somehow he has seen what is arguably one of the most closely guarded secrets of Pakistan. Lol. This is pathetic.

I've seen azm guys, its a triple engine air superiority fighter with a stealthy CIWS integrated for self defense with internal bays that can support 10x PL-15, it doesnt need WVRAAM because it has the Type-730 for closer ranged engagements. Grumman transferred the DAS to PAC for integrated within AZM.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

My younger self would have been very excited but I guess time takes its toll on everyone.
View attachment 655554

Design is a low bar. Each batch of aerospace engineering student in Pakistan designs an aircraft during their bachelor's. Our class made 36. Every year this happens. The point is that design (especially conceptual design) is an academic exercise that costs very little to do. Furthermore, it is done to get several candidate designs. Finally, these designs are very "big picture", so it's just configuration, shape, engine placement, MTOW etc. It doesn't say anything about where the components will be sourced from, how the manufacturing will take place, how will the avionics be constructed, is the design viable from a control systems perspective. That is, this kind of design is a very "back of the envelope" kind of thing. It is so basic that 3rd year aerospace engineering students do it all the time. And yes, it's PAF professors teaching us all this so I have a pretty good idea of what they must have done (and all the things they definitely don't know) @Goenitz @M.AsfandYar.

Then we can see the missing expertise/infrastructure at PAC for some critical subsystems (like control systems), and I wouldn't hold my breath for PAC producing a "clean-sheet" FGFA prototype within 5 years. I would give this goal at least 15-20 years (even this is optimistic).

Like @Chak Bamu I do not want to share all the things I am privy to on an open forum, but the things I've come into contact with do not fill me with confidence.

Just my (realistic or pessimistic) two cents.

I agree. Moreover, we literally just had the CAS himself say the ASR is for a twin-engine jet, and that we are open to working in a consortium. He wouldn't bring up the consortium point if it wasn't on the table.

In fact, even if we had the engineering expertise and technology base (which we don't, but let's assume we do) the tighter timelines (induction in the 2030s) would still force us to work in a consortium. Why? We lack fiscal resources and will need partners to carry out key development work in parallel to us to cut timelines and control cost.

But we lack all of the critical inputs. So, in all likelihood, we're going to pull on existing inputs, and with that in mind, the PAF will likely just join a working project instead of try piecing inputs together on its own.

If it wants to recreate the wheel, then it should learn how to make it on its own (which is why I, @JamD etc support the idea of a parallel NGFA project to develop critical tech without pressing deadlines).

Be it China or Turkey, we're probably going to roll into a consortium.

 

[JamD]

My younger self would have been very excited but I guess time takes its toll on everyone.
View attachment 655554

Design is a low bar. Each batch of aerospace engineering student in Pakistan designs an aircraft during their bachelor's. Our class made 36. Every year this happens. The point is that design (especially conceptual design) is an academic exercise that costs very little to do. Furthermore, it is done to get several candidate designs. Finally, these designs are very "big picture", so it's just configuration, shape, engine placement, MTOW etc. It doesn't say anything about where the components will be sourced from, how the manufacturing will take place, how will the avionics be constructed, is the design viable from a control systems perspective. That is, this kind of design is a very "back of the envelope" kind of thing. It is so basic that 3rd year aerospace engineering students do it all the time. And yes, it's PAF professors teaching us all this so I have a pretty good idea of what they must have done (and all the things they definitely don't know) @Goenitz @M.AsfandYar.

Then we can see the missing expertise/infrastructure at PAC for some critical subsystems (like control systems), and I wouldn't hold my breath for PAC producing a "clean-sheet" FGFA prototype within 5 years. I would give this goal at least 15-20 years (even this is optimistic).

Like @Chak Bamu I do not want to share all the things I am privy to on an open forum, but the things I've come into contact with do not fill me with confidence.

Just my (realistic or pessimistic) two cents.

Just to give an idea, this was my aero-vehicle design project. I was assigned to make an aerial refueling tanker. I designed a flying wing/blended body wing. Just some snippets from it. The conceptual design took each student a semester.

So you see, designs can be made quite easily by one dude sitting in his dorm-room. And this is from 10 years ago lol.

Disclaimer: This design is absolute garbage. Please don't put this on defencepk facebook page as design for Project Azm's refueler lol.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Just to give an idea, this was my aero-vehicle design project. I was assigned to make an aerial refueling tanker. I designed a flying wing/blended body wing. Just some snippets from it. The conceptual design took each student a semester.
View attachment 655574
View attachment 655572
View attachment 655571
View attachment 655573

So you see, designs can be made quite easily by one dude sitting in his dorm-room. And this is from 10 years ago lol.

Disclaimer: This design is absolute garbage. Please don't put this on defencepk facebook page as design for Project Azm's refueler lol.

1 year later...someone posts, "Did You Know Project Azm Had a Stealthy Tanker? The PAF didn't go for it (even though ALL of the capabilities were there) because Swift Retort veterans said 99% of all important targets in India are within 3 feet of the LoC"

 

[M.AsfandYar]

My younger self would have been very excited but I guess time takes its toll on everyone.
View attachment 655554

Design is a low bar. Each batch of aerospace engineering student in Pakistan designs an aircraft during their bachelor's. Our class made 36. Every year this happens. The point is that design (especially conceptual design) is an academic exercise that costs very little to do. Furthermore, it is done to get several candidate designs. Finally, these designs are very "big picture", so it's just configuration, shape, engine placement, MTOW etc. It doesn't say anything about where the components will be sourced from, how the manufacturing will take place, how will the avionics be constructed, is the design viable from a control systems perspective. That is, this kind of design is a very "back of the envelope" kind of thing. It is so basic that 3rd year aerospace engineering students do it all the time. And yes, it's PAF professors teaching us all this so I have a pretty good idea of what they must have done (and all the things they definitely don't know) @Goenitz @M.AsfandYar.

Then we can see the missing expertise/infrastructure at PAC for some critical subsystems (like control systems), and I wouldn't hold my breath for PAC producing a "clean-sheet" FGFA prototype within 5 years. I would give this goal at least 15-20 years (even this is optimistic).

Like @Chak Bamu I do not want to share all the things I am privy to on an open forum, but the things I've come into contact with do not fill me with confidence.

Just my (realistic or pessimistic) two cents.

In that course we had a series of lecs by "visiting" members, one of them by a certain WC gave a presentation about future.

Content of this pic was in one slide. Although they werent on first cycle. Cant recall which. You are definitely right on sketches. You and i can even bet who made them. There were some in his presentation.

Just to give an idea, this was my aero-vehicle design project. I was assigned to make an aerial refueling tanker. I designed a flying wing/blended body wing. Just some snippets from it. The conceptual design took each student a semester.
View attachment 655574
View attachment 655572
View attachment 655571
View attachment 655573

So you see, designs can be made quite easily by one dude sitting in his dorm-room. And this is from 10 years ago lol.

Disclaimer: This design is absolute garbage. Please don't put this on defencepk facebook page as design for Project Azm's refueler lol.

Mine was a supersonic passenger plane And we were dictated on how it should look........
And you know the sad part about that course. The Reports. Everyone rushes to pick those commercial ones because there are shit ton reports. Honestly this might be the second AVD i have seen on that.